91 FJ1200 front brake question

[1tinindian]

I have had the good fortune to have had great riding weather for the past couple of weeks and have rode everywhere I had to go in this time, I fear I may have forgot how to drive a car, haha!

Needless to say, but I love riding the FJ (I bought it this past March), and coming from my 1982 GS1100L, the only thing I miss is the great front brake feel of my old Suzuki.
The FJ has EBC pads on it, and look to be in usalble shape, but the problem I'm having is that the level pull seems excessive, before any real braking effort is felt. My Suzuki has brake feel right off the lever stop, and I like the confidence that gives me, as where the FJ requires a HUGE pull on the lever to get her to slow, but once I feel them working,  I stop fine (with plenty of front end dive). It makes using the front brakes a herky-jerky affair.

I have read countless post on the subject, and still am not sure where my problem lies.
Is this normal for FJs in general, or is my 30K miled FJ in need of repair/ mod/ replacement/adjustment?
It appears to still be wearing the OEM front  brake hoses and stock calipers.

I put my trust in your hands to help me improve my brake feel.

Thanks, Leon

[andyb]

Start with the obvious.  Fluid needs to be relatively freshish and free from air.  So bleed the hell out of the system and see how much improvement you get.

[SlowOldGuy]

Sounds like a sticking seal to me.  Have you had a fork oil leak recently?  I had a similar problem when fork oil got to a caliper and caused a seal to swell.  Hard initial pull before any serious braking occurred.  Once I got over the threshold, then there was plenty of stopping power available.  A caliper rebuild solved my problem.

If you got a late model FJ, a swap to R1/6/FZ1 calipers is cheaper than new seals for the stock caalipers.

DavidR.

[1tinindian]

Sounds like a sticking seal to me.  Have you had a fork oil leak recently?  I had a similar problem when fork oil got to a caliper and caused a seal to swell.  Hard initial pull before any serious braking occurred.  Once I got over the threshold, then there was plenty of stopping power available.  A caliper rebuild solved my problem.

If you got a late model FJ, a swap to R1/6/FZ1 calipers is cheaper than new seals for the stock caalipers.

DavidR.

The lever pull is easy, just alot of take up before actual braking.
Fork seals are dry.

[Arnie]

IF all the parts are in good condition, then improvements in feel can be had by:

Put in new fluid and Bleed the system

Change to SS braided lines.  Your original lines are way past due for replacement

Replace brake pads with sintered pads

Replace calipers with R1/R6/FZ1/FJR brakes and pads

Cheers,
Arnie

[the fan]

Is your bike an ABS model?

[1tinindian]

Is your bike an ABS model?

NON ABS.

I find it odd that the hoses are bad, when compared to my Suzuki which is 9 years older than my FJ, and still wears its original hoses.

Would the problem be in the master cylinder piston?
I bleed the brakes last night without any change.
The brakes will lock up with the lever pulled all the way back, it's just that the lever travel seems excessive.

I'd like to feel the brakes earlier into the lever pull than what I'm getting, if that makes any sence.

Thanks, Leon

[andyb]

Age of hoses means very little vs condition and how they were treated, of course.

Know exactly the feeling you're describing though.  Most guys simply replace everything with better instead of fixing the problem though.

[1tinindian]

Age of hoses means very little vs condition and how they were treated, of course.

Know exactly the feeling you're describing though.  Most guys simply replace everything with better instead of fixing the problem though.

OK, thanks for that input.
So I'm understanding correctly then, this is a "normal" FJ malady? and no "ONE" part can be the cause?

Replacing the entire braking system is the "fix"?  WOW!

This is sad, and I had such high regard for the FJ.

[simi_ed]

Don't blame the FJ because folks replace the whole brake system, rather than fix the existing hardware.

The old stuff was pretty good in 84-92 but time marches on!  The new stuff is soooooo much better that the old, and it's cheaper to replace than repair. 

With a new MC, stainless lines and blue/gold dot calipers, your brakes will feel so much firmer you will be amazed.  I sure was.

[1tinindian]

Don't blame the FJ because folks replace the whole brake system, rather than fix the existing hardware.

The old stuff was pretty good in 84-92 but time marches on!  The new stuff is soooooo much better that the old, and it's cheaper to replace than repair. 

With a new MC, stainless lines and blue/gold dot calipers, your brakes will feel so much firmer you will be amazed.  I sure was.

No doubt, and I don't mean to sound argumentative, but my 1982 GS1100L cruiser, has far better brake feel over the FJ which is 9 years newer and should have 9 years better technology built into it, so I expect that it should be, at least, as good as a bike 9 years older than that.

I hope you see where I'm coming from.

Thanks, Leon

[simi_ed]

My '89 FJ had far better stock brakes than my old '83 GS1100E ever did. 

I suspect that your FJ brakes were never properly serviced, and you're on the receiving end. 

You can choose to repair, and probably spend more money, and you will end up with good OEM brakes.  Or, you can REPLACE your system, spend LESS money, , and end up with brakes comparable to a late model bike.  Your pick; most of us have chosen to go the lower cost/better performance option.

HTH,

Ed

[1tinindian]

My '89 FJ had far better stock brakes than my old '83 GS1100E ever did. 

I suspect that your FJ brakes were never properly serviced, and you're on the receiving end. 

You can choose to repair, and probably spend more money, and you will end up with good OEM brakes.  Or, you can REPLACE your system, spend LESS money, , and end up with brakes comparable to a late model bike.  Your pick; most of us have chosen to go the lower cost/better performance option.

HTH,

Ed

My feeling is that the problem lies with the master cylinder.
If I were to replace that, is the stock FJ m/c compatible with the blue dot caliper upgrade?

[Arnie]

My feeling is that the problem lies with the master cylinder.
If I were to replace that, is the stock FJ m/c compatible with the blue dot caliper upgrade?

There is a screw that you can adjust on the lever to take up some of the slack you're complaining about.
IIRC it's a 5mm screw with a locknut and this is actually what contacts the MC piston assembly.

You can change the master cylinder completely and it will be "compatible" (maybe usable is better) with new brakes should you decide to change.  Be aware that the FJ MC is a 5/8" (15.875mm) bore vs 14mm for most of the newer MC units.  This means that the 14mm bore MC's will have greater lever travel (which you want to minimize) to move the same amount of fluid.  They will require less squeeze though.

BTW  I have ridden ONE FJ that had brakes which had similar 'bite' and power to the gold/blue spot brakes.  They did have SS lines and the owner was obsessed with making them as good as the newer brake units.  They did require more squeeze than newer brakes.

Cheers,
Arnie

[1tinindian]

My feeling is that the problem lies with the master cylinder.
If I were to replace that, is the stock FJ m/c compatible with the blue dot caliper upgrade?

There is a screw that you can adjust on the lever to take up some of the slack you're complaining about.
IIRC it's a 5mm screw with a locknut and this is actually what contacts the MC piston assembly.

You can change the master cylinder completely and it will be "compatible" (maybe usable is better) with new brakes should you decide to change.  Be aware that the FJ MC is a 5/8" (15.875mm) bore vs 14mm for most of the newer MC units.  This means that the 14mm bore MC's will have greater lever travel (which you want to minimize) to move the same amount of fluid.  They will require less squeeze though.

BTW  I have ridden ONE FJ that had brakes which had similar 'bite' and power to the gold/blue spot brakes.  They did have SS lines and the owner was obsessed with making them as good as the newer brake units.  They did require more squeeze than newer brakes.

Cheers,
Arnie

I am aware of this adjustment screw and it is set as deep as it can go.
The thought of trying a longer screw comes to mind.

The FJ m/c would be a better choice if I were to use blue dot calipers? (ie., less lever travel)

Thanks, Leon