lost clutch

chiz · July 21, 2021, 11:51:06 AM

Hello After a few rides my clutch has gone away at no time was it slipping, can I assume either the master or slave is leaking? If so what is a quick way to find out which one is the culprit?
Thanks Chiz

Millietant · July 21, 2021, 02:07:38 PM

Quote from: chiz on July 21, 2021, 11:51:06 AM
Hello After a few rides my clutch has gone away at no time was it slipping, can I assume either the master or slave is leaking? If so what is a quick way to find out which one is the culprit?
Thanks Chiz

I doubt it, if either were leaking, your clutch plates would be more likely to be sticking together (and dragging) with the clutch pulled in due to lack of sufficient movement of the pushrod, rather than slipping.

My first question usually is - what oil are you using and have you put in any additives (some people add things like Slik 50 ). Riding hard with fully synthetic oils can sometimes lead to clutch slip (it did on my 1 TX).

I'd also want to know how many miles you've done on the existing clutch, and how do you ride (lots of stop light drag races ? etc).

This info might help us to advise you better

chiz · July 21, 2021, 02:40:02 PM

Maybe I should rephrase... I got no lever it goes to the bar

red · July 21, 2021, 03:58:32 PM

Quote from: chiz on July 21, 2021, 02:40:02 PMMaybe I should rephrase... I got no lever it goes to the bar

Chiz,

Check that the master cylinder is full of hydraulic fluid. Flush with fresh fluid and bleed the system, if needed. If you lost all of the hydraulic fluid, refill, bleed, check for leaks; often the leak will be at the slave cylinder.

Sounds like you lost the connecting rod/ bushing between the lever and master cylinder. That happened to me once. RPM (page-top banner) may have the separate parts, or the clutch cylinder rebuild kit. If hydraulics rebuilding is not your cup of tea, the entire clutch master cylinder (with or without the clutch lever) may be a quick fix, and maybe cheaper. That was my bike's remedy - a good used unit from a parts bike, for cheap. I believe the clutch master cylinder for your bike is Yamaha P/N 36Y-26450-00-00, but check that.

Keep us posted.

Millietant · July 21, 2021, 05:59:43 PM

OK, got it.......language interpretation

It could definitely be an air bubble in your system, but the first thing I'd look at is how much fluid is in your master cylinder, is it full, or empty. Pop the top off to check. If the level is very low, or it's empty, the question is where has the fluid gone and the likely answer will be that it's escaped past the slave cylinder seal.

If there's plenty of fluid in the master cylinder there's a chance that you have air in the system and also a chance that your master cylinder seals are shot (replacement is straightforward).

As Red has said, it's also possible it could be mechanical issue with the lever mechanism.

So, the next steps......

If the master is low on fluid, I'd pop off the clutch slave and look for signs of fluid leaking under the dust/dirt seal - easy to spot and if you can see it, you need to replace the seal and make sure piston and bore are clean and in good condition. Then refill the whole system with new fluid and bleed it until all the air is gone.

If there is still plenty of fluid in the master, I'd be tempted to pump some fresh brake fluid in through the slave cylinder bleed nipple (gently, and with the top off the master cylinder and a rag around it to catch any spillage). Some people call this reverse bleeding (I used a small hand pump, some use a large plastic syringe) and it usually results in lots of bubbles coming out through the master when I do it - and I keep pumping new fluid in slowly until the bubbles stop (then close the bleed nipple).

If those don't work, then I'd get a master cylinder seal kit and replace the seal/piston etc and make sure the bore is clean too. In the master cylinder, you should also make sure the little holes inside at the bottom are clear too.

If none of these things work, then come back and discuss further.......

Hopefully that's of some help - if you do the work yourself, a Haynes Manual for the FJ is a great help.

Best of luck and hope to hear back soon

chiz · July 21, 2021, 07:09:15 PM

OK found de problems always good to have folks chiming in. They master had what amounted to grey guck in it. I flushed the system out with lottts of air coming from the slave..... But the three bolts that hold the slave on were very loose everything OK now and back to a proper feel.... I feel that these little bolts that hold the slave on might want to strip if not carefull.
Chiz

red · July 21, 2021, 09:24:26 PM

Quote from: chiz on July 21, 2021, 07:09:15 PMOK found de problems always good to have folks chiming in. They master had what amounted to grey guck in it. I flushed the system out with lottts of air coming from the slave..... But the three bolts that hold the slave on were very loose everything OK now and back to a proper feel.... I feel that these little bolts that hold the slave on might want to strip if not carefull.
Chiz

Chiz,

Okay, that's good to know. After you ride for maybe a week, replace all of the hydraulic fluid in the clutch system again. I expect it to be very dirty by then. Repeat every week or two, until you get only clean hydraulic fluid from the bleeder. Then you are golden, there.

Seems like a good bet to me that the front and rear brake hydraulics will have similar problems, caused by neglect. The clutch is somewhat optional. Brakes are essential. Clean out the master cylinders with paper towels, and start with all fresh fluid. Bleed as needed. Chances are, Speedbleeders.com will have the trick bleeder screws you need that make the job easy for one guy. You may need to provide the Yamaha Part Numbers to get the correct bleeder screws from them. They also sell a nifty fluid catch bag, for bleeding the brakes. Cost is pocket change, and you will be glad you have that gadget.

There are several motorcycle shops selling Yamaha OEM parts: Partzilla, 2wheelpros, and others. Here is one set of parts fiches, for the 1984 FJ1100. Click the pix:

http://www.adeptpowersports.com/oem-parts/1984-yamaha-fj1100l.html

You will want to bookmark that page.

Keep us posted.

Millietant · July 22, 2021, 07:15:31 AM

Great to hear yo've got your clutch sorted Chiz - and follow Chiz's advice on checking the fluid a couple of times in the coming weeks - you'd be amazed how long that grey guck manages to stay in the system.

Quote from: chiz on July 21, 2021, 07:09:15 PM......... I feel that these little bolts that hold the slave on might want to strip if not carefull.
Chiz

You're exactly right about the 3 slave bolts - keep them tight but not over-tight. Fred has just posted, today, on the failure of those bolt mounts on one of his FJ's where there had also been previous repairs - and his mantra is "use a torque wrench".

I'd set them with a torque wrench if I were you, but I'd also add a note to a monthly maintenance check list to just check each of those bolts with a small 8mm socket on a small handle, just to make sure they haven't started to loosen. I wouldn't push hard enough to tighten the bolt, just apply enough pressure to check that it hasn't come loose. I do the same each month with a load of bolts on my FJ and always make sure I check the rear bolts of the lower frame rails, under the foot pegs - I've had 2 of these loosen off during the last 30 years.

Old Rider · July 22, 2021, 07:38:51 AM

I can add that yamaha workshop manual instructs to use yamabond no.1215 on the 3 slave bolts and tourque to 10 NM .I think that is to much on the bolts on the old heatcycled aluminium so i use 8 NM .It is also important to change the brakefluid often on the clutch to avoid that it get to much water mixed in it. The water find its way down to the slave piston and makes corrosion / pitting and the seal get distroyed

chiz · July 22, 2021, 08:26:21 AM

Excellent points all thanks. guess because I don't ride much things get neglected I think the brakes are next. Believe me if I had not greased around the threads of the bleeder I would still be there trying to get the air out never done this job so quickly... who ever came up with this trick deserves a medal. Was thinking to put liquid thread sealer on those threads to keep the bolts backing out.
Chiz

Old Rider · July 22, 2021, 11:12:59 AM

You must not use treadlocker if that you mean at least not a strong one because it can ruin the treads .yamabond is a silicone based gasket paste i use rtv silicone a little on the treads

woodcreekpete · July 22, 2021, 11:37:36 AM

Buy a small can of anti-seize. Most of the broken slave mounts are caused by seized bolts and over-enthusiatic removal. Might need to dial back the torque a little. I use anti-seize on just about anything short of head studs. Especially when I've swapped out any stock bolts for stainless.

chiz · July 23, 2021, 10:08:16 AM

I used thread sealer Permatex its white liquid guck and is actually a sealer for fittings plumbers etc . I has the ability to hold the fastener in place , prevent leaks up the thread and stop the fastener from backing off where a thread locker would be overkill and the best part it's not an anaerobic glue like thread lockers.
Chiz

Old Rider · July 24, 2021, 02:31:14 AM

Quote from: chiz on July 23, 2021, 10:08:16 AM
I used thread sealer Permatex its white liquid guck and is actually a sealer for fittings plumbers etc . I has the ability to hold the fastener in place , prevent leaks up the thread and stop the fastener from backing off where a thread locker would be overkill and the best part it's not an anaerobic glue like thread lockers.
Chiz

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lost clutch