Swingarm bearing removal

[Troyskie]

I tried the google search around here for anything specific to replacing the swingarm bearings, but all I found was about the linkage bearings not the swingarm ones specifically. I'm sure it must exist, but I couldn't find it.

My YGSM and Haynes only say to take it to a dealer.

After success at removing the stearing head bearings I thought I'd give it a go.

At first it was not as hard has the stearing head as there is a lip at the top of the race.

But I discovered that the lip is not even, and the race is thin.

I assume that when the bearing mounting surface is machined, they use that to centre or true the swingarm geometry.
The problem is, it makes removing the bearing with a drift difficult, as you might not be able to use a drift and hammer on opposite sides.

The first bearing was slightly easier (by luck) as the machined lip was more uniform and my stearing head drift was working, although I was destroying the race and the thin lips of the bearing.
Eventually the race had moved about 2mm, but I had no more purchase with the drift on the edge of the bearing race as I'd smashed the lip, cage and bearings out, but the race was still in.

This problem helped me work out my new method.

Instead of using my dremmel to create a lip same as in the stearing head fashion, I came up with another way.

I started with a washer as I was going to make a home made bearing puller. I had a washer that was the perfect size and simply ground 2 sides flat until it fit, but I didn't have a bolt and nut big enough or long enough to be able to pull it out. So I used my drift and lump hammer.
It was working fine, but the washer was too soft and it kept bending, falling through, and shooting across the shed, finally to teleport into another dimension. Half and our of searching and it was gone. I didn't have another washer of the same size.
The race had moved about 5mm by now.

I cut a 3mm thick piece of 316 stainless flatbar roughly the size of the bearing OD.
I then ground it down till it was about 0.5mm smaller in OD than the OD of the bearing.
I ground about 5mm off two opposite sides, making a kind of oval.
This just fits through the ID of the bearing in the swingarm.

After a bit of fiddling my little plate sat flat on top of the bearing race.
I used a bit of 100x40 softwood and chiseled out a section (where the bottom linkage mount has been welded onto the swingarm) so I could firmly clamp the swingarm to my bench
I then used a modified 250mm long 1/2" socket as a drift.

Some hits with a little lump hammer later the badly damaged bearing race popped out.
Time for the other side with undamaged bearing, fiddle fiddle, wham wham, out it popped.

Now it became more interesting.

As I'd basically smashed the bearings out of one race I could see that on one side of the race it was heavily pitted, whilst the other was fine.

Although I thought I was unnecessarily replacing them, it turns out I really actually needed to do it.
With my new drift spacer tool thingy I can seriously consider replacing the swingarm bearings on my other FJ's as they all have way more k's on them.

Things I did wrong:
1, I didn't clean the inside of the bearings before my first attempt. This obcured my view of the lip surfaces. I would have noticed earlier that on one side the lip was narower than the other.
2, I didn't secure the swingarm to my bench very well on the first couple of tries. I then notched out the bit of timber and secured it propery to the bench. I discovered that any bit of bounce buggers the effect with the drift.
3, Although the washer was ok, I expected it to bend and the edges burr off as it is only mild steel.
4, I was slighly out with my grinding of the stainless bit and gouged a bit of the bearing mount out. I fixed the tool and dressed the gouge with a round file.

Question. Should I JB weld and smooth the gouge? It is 5mm wide, 16mm long and about 0.3mm deep.

Here's some pics.

[Sparky84]

Good work Troy,
So Did the bearings really need removing?

Cheers
Alan

[ribbert]

Troy, as you have now discovered, the way to remove these needle rollers, if they don't just push out, is to destroy them up front, as opposed to attempting to drive them out like a roller bearing. If you only want to wash and grease them, do so in situ, or so I'm told.

I've heard mechanics use something similar to this tool, a modified steel shaft screwdriver, they place it between the outer race and the cage and drive it inwards and down at an angle towards the centre, so as not to damage the race. This does two things, collapses the cage on itself (and making it loose in the process) and gives you some purchase with the tool tip, then, just lever or flick it out (after the seal has been removed, usually by a similar method).





Thank god for mechanics sharing these tips, where would we be without their experience! 

Noel

[FJ1200W]

Thank god for mechanics sharing these tips, where would we be without their experience! 

Noel

If it was not for that, we would still be using Phillips screwdrivers!

[CutterBill]

"Question. Should I JB weld and smooth the gouge? It is 5mm wide, 16mm long and about 0.3mm deep..."

Nah, you're fine. Of course, if you really want to, it certainly won't hurt to fill the gouge with JB weld.  Just make sure it's not standing proud of the bore.

Tip: Aluminum expands more than steel when heated. So next time, first heat the area with an electric heat gun. The swing arm boss will expand more than the bearing, and it will then be easier to drive out. (If you don't have a heat gun, just throw the whole swing arm in the oven at 200F for an hour. Yes, I'm a bachelor, why do you ask?)  Of course, this method won't work with a steel swing arm.
Bill

[great white]

I use a bearing puller for swingarm bearings/bushings:



Worth its weight in gold. The needle bearings in the FJ swingarm are (generally) not salvageable once removed. The race portion is thin and easily collapsed/damaged. Its usually "pooched" on removal, unless you are very lucky.

I don't use it on cup/cone races though. Usually no edge to grip on the backside with the puller. But for things like the steering head, I just run a bead of weld around the i side of the race, which contracts the race as it cools, and they usually drop right out on to the floor without having to touch them.

I buy swingarm bearings from the local small engine shop. They can order almost any bearing by part number and its ALWAYS waaaaayyy cheaper than the same one from momma yammy...

[CutterBill]

Re: bearing puller tool... Yeah, I have something similar. Fantastic, but more money than some people are prepared to pay.  As for the trick of welding a bead around a bearing, the first time I heard that, I thought... nah, that won't work. But I tried it on a stubborn steering head bearing race and son-of-a-gun... the race fell right out.   

No worries. Summer is almost here...
Bill

[racerrad8]

Question. Should I JB weld and smooth the gouge?

I would not recommend it. You will make the hole out of round by trying to smooth out the JB weld. The aluminum of each side of the epoxy will also be removed while you are trying to get the epoxy down to the bore size.

As Bill mentioned, it will be fine.

Randy - RPM

[racerrad8]

Thank god for mechanics I am sharing these tips, where would we be without their my experience!  

Noel

Noel,

FTFY

Randy - RPM

[Sparky84]

As I'd basically smashed the bearings out of one race I could see that on one side of the race it was heavily pitted, whilst the other was fine.

I'll be waiting to see how you install the new bearings, (might be doing the same, except for the gouge)
Where did you source your new bearings?

Cheers
Alan

[CutterBill]

To install the bearings, I use a press. If you don't have one, a length of threaded rod, some heavy washers and nuts will also work.
Bill

[Sparky84]

To install the bearings, I use a press. If you don't have one, a length of threaded rod, some heavy washers and nuts will also work.
Bill

Thanks Bill
I could definitely do the threaded rod, I've got some 12mm rod lying around and some 41mm square washers that are 6mm thick, which should do.

Cheers
Alan

[great white]

Re: bearing puller tool... Yeah, I have something similar. Fantastic, but more money than some people are prepared to pay.  As for the trick of welding a bead around a bearing, the first time I heard that, I thought... nah, that won't work. But I tried it on a stubborn steering head bearing race and son-of-a-gun... the race fell right out.   

No worries. Summer is almost here...
Bill

I suppose it depends on the definition of  "more than willing to pay". I paid just over 50 bucks for that kit. Seems pretty affordable to me.

The welding trick is an old one. Far older than I am. Learned it from an old mech in a small one horse town bike shop. It's perfect for bike like the FJ where the race ends up flush to the steering head land and you can't get a drift on it. One or two little beads and plop! Drops right out...

[ribbert]

To install the bearings, I use a press. If you don't have one, a length of threaded rod, some heavy washers and nuts will also work.
Bill

Thanks Bill
I could definitely do the threaded rod, I've got some 12mm rod lying around and some 41mm square washers that are 6mm thick, which should do.

Cheers
Alan

Another option Alan......

......I have a press and a threaded puller but I have a strong preference for hammering in bearings of this type for a couple of reasons. A press offers little feel and spreads the load over a greater (and sometimes weaker) area, it is easy to apply way too much pressure and bend, crack or break the housing or damage the bearing. The same applies to a threaded installer but to a lesser extent.
The thing I like about a hammer blow is the impact is localised and there is an unmistakable feel and sound to a bearing when it's seated, makes it near impossible to overdo it. Any unexpected resistance can also be more easily felt.

What I most commonly use as a driver is the appropriate sized socket from my socket set. In almost every application you will find a socket that is the perfect size to drive bearings and seals.

Neither method is right or wrong but for me this is the quickest and safest method. And, everyone has a hammer and a socket set.

*Reprinted with permission from another forum

Noel

[ribbert]

The welding trick is an old one. Far older than I am. Learned it from an old mech in a small one horse town bike shop.

Watching an old mechanic using heat, hammers and leverage is like watching an artist, it's a real skill.

When I started work it was not uncommon to see old tradesmen still "on the bench" I worked in a large workshop that even had separate specially equipped rooms for auto trans, another for diffs, one for engines etc and had a store, with full time storeman, that was stocked exclusively with special tools and equipment. The old blokes rarely used any of it.

This was in the late 60's, some of these mechanics started in the 20's & 30's and worked on vehicles that dated back to before WW1. There were no special tools. Give these blokes an oxy torch, a few hammers a big screw driver and a couple of tyre levers and there was nothing they couldn't get apart, intact and without breaking a sweat.
If you appreciate these sort of manual skills, it was magical to watch. It's a stark contrast to modern mechanics when you look at the equipment they can't work without.

Noel