Top end oiler

[Indiana jones]

Anyone running one of these?
What are you drilling/tapping the head to?
1/8 npt is a bit big, by the looks of it.
I want to run mine from the gallery plug in the front of the engine for protection from crash damage.
Everything I see on line is for Legend cars.

[ribbert]

Anyone running one of these?
What are you drilling/tapping the head to?
1/8 npt is a bit big, by the looks of it.
I want to run mine from the gallery plug in the front of the engine for protection from crash damage.
Everything I see on line is for Legend cars.

No doubt there will be plenty of advice forthcoming on how, but I'm just curious as to why.

Noel

[fj1289]

I have done this - I needed to due to some oil sealing issues with an aftermarket "big block" cylinder.   I would highly advise against it.  It addresses issues very specific to running an air cooled motorcycle engine longitudinally in an enclosed car and the stresses placed on it in that use.   

I've been down this road - you end up creating more issues that you are "solving"!

[Indiana jones]

I'm willing to try it. It makes sense to try provide oil which hasn't been subjected to the heat of the cylinders.
It's called dry blocking.
It's going to be running hot in race trim.

[racerrad8]

No doubt there will be plenty of advice forthcoming on how, but I'm just curious as to why.

Noel

Noel, hopefully you can share your FJ engine expertise with Mr. Jones. I would hate to know that the membership as a whole cannot benefit from your knowledge such as demonstrated regarding piston speed being the limiting factor of a road engine and your decision not share with only your select few.

Fortunately, this is a race engine, so please let us all know how dry blocking can help in this situation.

Please don't take my post as an attempt at flattery or for swelling your head, people need your opinion based on your more than 30-40-50 years of experience.

We all await your response.

Randy - RPM

[CutterBill]

I'm willing to try it. It makes sense to try provide oil which hasn't been subjected to the heat of the cylinders.
It's called dry blocking.
It's going to be running hot in race trim.

I must admit that I've never heard of this particular modification. If I understand correctly, you want the oil to bypass the right-hand cylinder studs on its way to the head. And you want to do this because you're worried that the oil will pick up too much heat on its way up those studs...

Are you sure? Do you have any data to support this theory? Have you taken any temperature readings of the oil in the head? How do you know it's getting too hot? Understand that in a past life I was a test engineer and we never changed anything unless we had hard numbers to back up our theories. I am hugely skeptical of thumbnail analysis and TLAR (That Looks About Right) design. So make sure you have an actual problem before you go looking for a solution.

Also, I doubt that any temperature increase due to the oil going thru the cylinder block will cause you any problems. I say this because there are many FJ owners living in the southwestern US and in Australia where the air temps get very hot... 100F is common here. Some (most?) of us run our bikes quite hard in this infernal heat, and we aren't having any oil breakdown problems. If you're really worried about oil breakdown, just use full synthetic oil; that why it was developed... for the high temps in a jet engine.

Oh, you said that you want to use a gallery plug on the front of the engine. You probably know this, but make sure you don't use the outlets for the oil cooler hoses; those are very low pressure.
Good luck at the races,
Bill

[ribbert]

No doubt there will be plenty of advice forthcoming on how, but I'm just curious as to why.

Noel

Noel, hopefully you can share your FJ engine expertise with Mr. Jones. I would hate to know that the membership as a whole cannot benefit from your knowledge such as demonstrated regarding piston speed being the limiting factor of a road engine and your decision not share with only your select few.

Fortunately, this is a race engine, so please let us all know how dry blocking can help in this situation.

Please don't take my post as an attempt at flattery or for swelling your head, people need your opinion based on your more than 30-40-50 years of experience.

We all await your response.

Randy - RPM

My response to what?

Randy, I think you misread the thread, I never mentioned dry blocking, it was the poster. I only asked him why he was planning on doing it, I thought I might learn something.

If he answers, I guess we'll both know. If you don't agree, take it up with him.

Noel

[aviationfred]

Here is a photo of what is being discussed.

Here is my take on this..... my initial thoughts are.. sure, this would be great and any extra or cooler oil into/out of the head would definitely be a benefit.

What I have actually seen.... as with many modifications to the FJ as a whole and to the engines, the mods have been vetted and many owners have them. With this specific mod.... I have NEVER seen this head oiling mod installed on a FJ that lives it's life on public roads, or seen any photos of FJ's from around the world.

This leads me to a conclusion... I have only seen this mod on engines designated for use in a Legends race car, and I have never seen the mod on the street. My belief then is, the benefits of doing this mod is NOT an improvement for a street going FJ. The whys and what fors of this mod I don't know. I don't know all the technical reasons to use this mod in the race cars. I do know that between 3 World renowned FJ/Lengends engine builders, Randy Raduechel, Hank Scott and Carry Andrews, I have never heard any mention of doing this mod on a street bike.

Fred

[racerrad8]

My response to what?

Randy, I think you misread the thread, I never mentioned dry blocking, it was the poster. I only asked him why he was planning on doing it, I thought I might learn something.

Noel

Noel, to answer your question; your response to his request for information.

I did not misread anything and I am aware he used the term "dry blocking". With your vast and expansive knowledge of the FJ engine and all of the other engines you have experience with, I just knew you would be the one and only to give him the proper guidance.

Now, as far as you learning something, that is a common pattern when technical questions comes up and that is why they are asked. In fact, I asked you directly, via a PM and in a specific post, about your statement about piston speed being the limiting factor of a FJ road engine, as an opportunity to learn something. But as you already stated, you chose to share your opinion with a select few and exclude the rest of us even though it was a direct question to you. Hell, Pat even said he was interested in learning as well.

...I'm open to learning....

...I too am churning for learning...

Randy - RPM

Fred,

That is one version of this modification. That is the current version offer by Hank Scott and USLCI, the manufacture of the Legend Cars. That is not what I recommend or use on any of my engines and I have removed many of those over the years.

The main reason this external head oiling modification is not a good option for the FJ engine in a stock frame is clearance of the oil galley for the intake cam and the frame. There is no way to easily get a fitting in there that has the proper flow rate. On the race car and the race bike Mr. Jones is building, there are no clearance issues to deal with.

Now, back to the initial question regarding external head oiling systems. I have a lot of experience with this, it is one of those things I use as a professional FJ engine builder of both road motorcycles as well as racing motorcycles and race cars using the FJ engine. I have experimented with this modification extensively and apply the modification to all of my built engines. Unfortunately, as Fred mentioned, this is one of those things professional engine builders do when building engines for paying customers. So, with that said I am not willing to share my experiences on this free public forum. There are still many trade secrets in the world of racing that are not free. There might or might not have been a modification to your recent cylinder head I rebuilt over the winter.

Randy - RPM

[CutterBill]

I can see where this mod (on a highly stressed race engine) may help with a oil flow rate problem , but for an oil temp problem?  Hmmm, I'm not seeing it...
Bill

[ribbert]

In fact, I asked you directly, via a PM .....

Randy - RPM

Perhaps you could post that PM here for us all to read.

Noel

[racerrad8]

In fact, I asked you directly, via a PM .....

Randy - RPM

Perhaps you could post that PM here for us all to read.

Noel

Sorry Noel, I wish I could but I do not keep my outgoing PM's.

But, I don't think it would matter anyhow since you have me and a different group of your selected few blocked from getting PM's. So, that would be why you never respond to my PM's.

Profile
Other members of FJowners.com can contact you personally, but sometimes you may want to ignore someone's messages. This page allows you to set that, among other things.
Ignorelist:

Add one Username on each line.
Or enter * to ignore all messages.

Klavdy
Pat Conlon
racerrad8
Mike Ramos
ZOA NOM
copper


Sorry, I cannot produce the PM I sent at your request. But hey, at least I respond to your and everyone else's PM's and public posts/questions/requests.

You on the other hand have chosen to question if I actually did send you a PM and basically insinuate that I am a liar. But, that fact is, the question was asked of you both directly and publicly and you have made your decision.

At this point, I expect no less of you since you don't respond to my emails either, even when I am checking on your personal well-being such as this one below.

From: "Randy Raduechel" <randy@rpmracingca.com>
Sent: 6/17/19 3:49 PM
To: "Noel Langmead" <noellangmead@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Everything Okay?

Noel,

I notice you haven't been active on the forum as of late. I wanted to reach out and make sure everything was okay.

Just checking in.

Randy


I also sent the same thing via a PM as well and posted it on the forum in two different topics; Where's Noel? and Where's Noel?.

What did I get from you; absolutely nothing. At least you responded to a different post on the forum a couple of weeks later and I was able to let everyone know you were still kicking. Ironically, Rick had the common decency to respond in the same post where I noted he had not be active lately as well.

So, at this point Noel, you keep doing you. Keep up your selective responses and/or non-response to direct questions, but please don't stop offering your opinions; they are invaluable to your select few and those worried about grease churning.

Now, back to the topic at hand, do you have anything of value to add to help Mr. Jones?

Randy - RPM

[ELIMINATOR]