R1 4xv track day wheels - will they fit?

[2big]

saw these YAMAHA R1 4XV 5JJ 1998-2001 front & rear wheels on eBay -
With minimal access to machining in lockdown will they fit?
Might need a 4XV swing arm - im an optimist - that'll drop straight in no bother won't it

I'd certainly be proud of that tyre wear on the FJ...

[CutterBill]

Nice looking wheels but will they bolt-on with no machining? Short answer... No.

The front axle on an FJ is 15mm OD; the hole in that R1 front wheel looks bigger than that so you will need to play with bearings or make spacers and/or axles. Then there is the matter of brake rotor spacing and diameter. Does that year R1 use a mechanical speedometer drive? If not, you will need a GPS speedo.

I've never actually tried it, but I have to believe there is just no way that rear wheel is a bolt-on installation. Axle diameter, sprocket spacing, wheel spacing, rotor spacing and diameter will all need to be checked and modified. Will the R1 swing arm fit? I seriously doubt it. Many people have done some sort of R1 swing arm swap and in every case, the swing arm needed to be machined. To say nothing of getting the shock/spring assembly to fit.

It would definitely be a fun project and I'm sure with enough perseverance (and money) it can be made to work. But it's definitely not a bolt-on swap. Good luck with it, if you proceed.
Bill

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Hi Bill
Thanks for the good advice...what's the simplest wheel & brake upgrade to drop the abs, save some weight improve the brakes and get some wider radial tyres. Lockdown project pic attached
Nothing good is ever easy!
Cheers Jan

[CutterBill]

Jan,
nice looking bike you have there...

Removing the ABS: that's easy, just remove the pump and the hard lines. You will need some hoses to go from the master cylinders to the calipers. Just buy hoses for a non-ABS bike. When it comes time to refill the brake fluid, I recommend DOT5 silicone fluid simply because it doesn't eat the paint. It also doesn't absorb water so the internal parts don't rust. It's good stuff. You might hear horror stories about how you must completely disassemble and clean the master cylinders and calipers before switching over to silicone fluid but I found that not to be the case. I just pumped/drained all the old fluid out, then pumped the new silicone fluid thru the system until I had clean new fluid coming out the caliper bleed valve. Nothing to it. However... you appear to live in the UK, correct? Check your MOT laws; they may prohibit you from removing the ABS system.

You can also remove the ABS wiring; it's a separate harness. Just carefully follow the wires and they will lead you to a black box in the tail; that's the ABS computer. You can remove that box and the wires without causing any problems to the rest of the bike. When you are removing that computer, do not remove the rather large black cylinder next to it. That's a capacitor for the charging system. There is also a rectangular ceramic block back there; that is a resister for the fuel level gauge. Leave it alone or your fuel gauge will not work.

Rear wheel: the easiest way to do this is to use a Suzuki GSXR 1100 wheel. You will also need the sprocket carrier (sometimes called the cushion hub) and the brake caliper. It's not quite bolt-on but so far, it's the easiest way to install a 5.5x17 inch wheel. You will need to machine the sprocket carrier so that the wheel sprocket lines up with the countershaft sprocket. You will also need to fabricate a torque arm to hold the caliper in place, weld a mounting tab for the torque arm to the underside of the swing arm, and machine one, possibly two, spacers. Keep in mind that the 180/55-17 tire is shorter than the 150/80-16 tires so you will need to change sprockets to keep the same overall ratio. I find that reducing the wheel sprocket one tooth comes pretty close.  There are several tricks to make this all work properly; I'll send you the details in a PM.

Front wheel:  you can install a 17-inch wheel from a later model FJ1200 but it is only 3.0 inches wide. The most common method to get a proper 3.5 inch wide wheel involves using a wheel from a Yamaha FZR1000. However... only the 1987-88 wheels have the 15mm ID bearings which fit the FJ axle. The 89-93 wheels use 17mm ID bearings which can be made to work on the FJ axle with some slight modification. The 94-95 FZR wheels use 22mm bearings which will require some machining or installing the front fork assembly from the same FZR. These are the much improved upside-down (USD) forks. The are mostly bolt-on but do require some machining.  Details to come...

Reducing weight: removing the ABS pump and wiring is a good start; that pump is heavy.  The Yamaha mufflers are also very heavy; aftermarket units are usually much lighter. Again, check your laws. One small change you can make is to use a lithium battery; they are astonishingly light. But... they do not work well in cold weather. I live on the edge of the Mojave Desert so it rarely gets that cold here. I have lithium batteries in my FJ and Super Tenere and they work just fine. Your situation may be different.

Hope this helps. PM me with questions.
Bill

[Millietant]

Jan,
nice looking bike you have there...

Removing the ABS: that's easy, just remove the pump and the hard lines. You will need some hoses to go from the master cylinders to the calipers. Just buy hoses for a non-ABS bike. When it comes time to refill the brake fluid, I recommend DOT5 silicone fluid simply because it doesn't eat the paint. It also doesn't absorb water so the internal parts don't rust. It's good stuff. You might hear horror stories about how you must completely disassemble and clean the master cylinders and calipers before switching over to silicone fluid but I found that not to be the case. I just pumped/drained all the old fluid out, then pumped the new silicone fluid thru the system until I had clean new fluid coming out the caliper bleed valve. Nothing to it. However... you appear to live in the UK, correct? Check your MOT laws; they may prohibit you from removing the ABS system.

You can also remove the ABS wiring; it's a separate harness. Just carefully follow the wires and they will lead you to a black box in the tail; that's the ABS computer. You can remove that box and the wires without causing any problems to the rest of the bike. When you are removing that computer, do not remove the rather large black cylinder next to it. That's a capacitor for the charging system. There is also a rectangular ceramic block back there; that is a resister for the fuel level gauge. Leave it alone or your fuel gauge will not work.

Rear wheel: the easiest way to do this is to use a Suzuki GSXR 1100 wheel. You will also need the sprocket carrier (sometimes called the cushion hub) and the brake caliper. It's not quite bolt-on but so far, it's the easiest way to install a 5.5x17 inch wheel. You will need to machine the sprocket carrier so that the wheel sprocket lines up with the countershaft sprocket. You will also need to fabricate a torque arm to hold the caliper in place, weld a mounting tab for the torque arm to the underside of the swing arm, and machine one, possibly two, spacers. Keep in mind that the 180/55-17 tire is shorter than the 150/80-16 tires so you will need to change sprockets to keep the same overall ratio. I find that reducing the wheel sprocket one tooth comes pretty close.  There are several tricks to make this all work properly; I'll send you the details in a PM.

Front wheel:  you can install a 17-inch wheel from a later model FJ1200 but it is only 3.0 inches wide. The most common method to get a proper 3.5 inch wide wheel involves using a wheel from a Yamaha FZR1000. However... only the 1987-88 wheels have the 15mm ID bearings which fit the FJ axle. The 89-93 wheels use 17mm ID bearings which can be made to work on the FJ axle with some slight modification. The 94-95 FZR wheels use 22mm bearings which will require some machining or installing the front fork assembly from the same FZR. These are the much improved upside-down (USD) forks. The are mostly bolt-on but do require some machining.  Details to come...

Reducing weight: removing the ABS pump and wiring is a good start; that pump is heavy.  The Yamaha mufflers are also very heavy; aftermarket units are usually much lighter. Again, check your laws. One small change you can make is to use a lithium battery; they are astonishingly light. But... they do not work well in cold weather. I live on the edge of the Mojave Desert so it rarely gets that cold here. I have lithium batteries in my FJ and Super Tenere and they work just fine. Your situation may be different.

Hope this helps. PM me with questions.
Bill

All good stuff there Bill, but I think the 17" rear wheel bit needs qualifying - the "best" 17" rear wheel conversion (particularly for a 180 section tyre) is the GSXR, but the "easiest" 17" rear wheel conversion, by far, is the YZF 600 Thundercat conversion - but this limits you to a 170 section rear tyre with with keeping the designed tyre profile.

For those of us with limited access to machining, and on a low budget, having to convert the rear brake (together with the concern some have raised here about torque arm mounting) using the GSXR caliper, torque arm etc makes it more expensive and difficult - but, if you can afford a track only bike as well, they why not splash out and go GSXR anyway 

[2big]

Ok guys with your good help and hours on eBay its time for an update...
Ive bought a '90 GSXR 1100 rear wheel, tyre, calliper, torque arm, spindle, spacers, spacers and cush drive complete   In bright yellow - needs paint. Cost £120 inc shipping

[2big]

Have dug out the blue spot callipers that we're on my 350LC banshee
You'll note the rear calliper bracket that I machined to take the rear calliper thought I could perhaps adapt this design to suit the underneath mounted rear blue spot calliper and use the existing overhead torque arm?

[2big]

I've sourced an '87 FZR1000 genesis front wheel to fit straight in with no messing or machining....but think I should replace the stock 3XW abs discs - wondered which stock items will fit?
They're 298mm diameter and flat is that correct? Will a set of early R1 discs do it?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333564312468

I'd appreciate a reality check
Thanks

[2big]

Or there's these Brembo discs off of a genesis FZR - 320mm diameter with a 4mm lift. They look really tasty but will these work with the Blue spots or do I need the same 298mm diameter of the later R1 or Thunderace discs

[Pat Conlon]

No, the 320mm rotors will not fit using your 1991 fork legs.
On your forks there are the lugs to which the brake calipers attach. Those lugs are set a certain distance from the axle. It's that fixed distance that limits you to 298mm rotors.

You could try and fab up some adaptor plates that bolt onto your fork lugs and spaces out the calipers so as to fit the 320mm rotors, but that's a lot of work for negligible gains.

Get some spiffy eBay Arashi 298 mm wave rotors and HH pads, 14mm master cylinder, SS lines with your Blue spots...you will be good to go....

If your heart is set on 320mm rotors, throw those damper rod forks away and get some real cartridge forks.

BTW....just so you know...USD forks gets the chicks....

[CutterBill]

I've sourced an '87 FZR1000 genesis front wheel to fit straight in with no messing or machining....but think I should replace the stock 3XW abs discs - wondered which stock items will fit?

You have no choice... your existing ABS discs will not fit your new FZR wheel. So do like Pat says and get some FZR discs for your FZR wheel.

And just a suggestion... replace the bearings in that FZR wheel. They're 33 years old.
Bill

[Pat Conlon]

I've sourced an '87 FZR1000 genesis front wheel to fit straight in with no messing or machining....but think I should replace the stock 3XW abs discs - wondered which stock items will fit?

You have no choice... your existing ABS discs will not fit your new FZR wheel. So do like Pat says and get some FZR discs for your FZR wheel.....

The FZR rotors are too big (320mm)

Get some 298mm rotors off eBay for the *non abs* FJ '89-93.
The rotor bolt pattern on the FJ rotors is the same bolt pattern that is on your FZR rim so the FJ rotors will bolt up correctly on the FZR rim....even the rotor offset is correct.

So, buy the FJ rotors (not FZR) because they are the correct diameter.

[Millietant]

Jan, maybe give Skywave UK a try on eBay for their FJ Wavy discs - they seem to be OK (friend used some on his FJ race bike wet wheels) and are very reasonably priced.

[CutterBill]

The FZR rotors are too big (320mm)...

I thought the 87 FZR used the 298mm rotors; guess I was wrong. Go figure...
Bill

[2big]

Thanks for all the detailed replies you guys are a great help
Confess I'm beginning to think I was too hasty there buying the genesis wheel as delivery won't happen till the end of the month and the same with the Arashi rotors...at least there's a 18" x 4.5" rear wheel with a decent rear tyre if I want to try an alternative to the GSXR rear that arrived a day after purchase.

Have read the 18" rear is supposed to handle really well quickens steering and raises ride height by 13.4mm
(I'm 6'4" tall - anything helps!)

Here's the biggie - what colour to paint the wheels?
Was thinking satin black or dark metallic blue to match the dark stripe on the tank (not periwinkle!)....

Cheers