Coil Relay Mod Question

[Canada.Mach]

Hello everyone! '86 FJ owner here. I had a dyna 2000 on this bike that went bad, as soon as it got hot it wouldn't fire 1 of the coils. We went back to the stock ignition and things have been peachy. 

After that was done, we added in the coil relay mod which seems to be so popular on here. The thing is, compared to the diagram that is always shown on here, we had to switch 86 and 87. Currently, 86 is going to the coils and 87 is going to the ignitor- this is how it it will actually run and drive, but is opposite to how the diagram off here shows. Testing the wires, with the ignition on but bike not running, the wire coming FROM the coils is sitting at 10 volts. The wire from the ignitor is zero.

I know very little about mechanics and even less about electricity, so am relying on help from a mechanic as well as work's resident low voltage electrical guy. They both separately and had to wire it up the same way to get it working (with 86 going to the coils and 87 to the ignitor).

I mean, it's running fine as far as anyone's aware, so maybe I shouldn't be looking a gift horse in the mouth. Just seems odd that a hundred people have done this and then we are backwards. Unless I'm misunderstanding things and this is how it's supposed to be. But it seems weird to me the the wire from the coils is showing voltage. Any ideas?

[FJ_Hooligan]

What are the other 2 connections on the relay connected to?

You write: "Testing the wires, with the ignition on but bike not running, the wire coming FROM the coils is sitting at 10 volts. The wire from the ignitor is zero."

What color are these wires on the bike's wire harness?

[Pat Conlon]

The thing is, compared to the diagram that is always shown on here, we had to switch 86 and 87. Currently, 86 is going to the coils and 87 is going to the ignitor- this is how it it will actually run and drive, but is opposite to how the diagram off here shows.
.....Any ideas?

Here's a question for you:
When you bought the relay, did it have a wiring diagram exactly like this?

[fj-f3a]

When doing this mod, it is better to use a 5 pin normally open relay rather than a cross over relay.

I use a Narva 68024BL



Connect the wire from the battery to terminal 30 then each coil connects to one of the terminals 87.
This saves multiple connections to one terminal.

[Canada.Mach]

What are the other 2 connections on the relay connected to?

You write: "Testing the wires, with the ignition on but bike not running, the wire coming FROM the coils is sitting at 10 volts. The wire from the ignitor is zero."

What color are these wires on the bike's wire harness?

85 is grounded directly to negative battery terminal, 30 is direct to battery with a 10 amp fuse in between. 87a has nothing connected.

The wires are red with a white stripe. As I understand it, it was basically cut, and these ends were connected to the relay (86 and 87 as described in initial post)

Pat, I will double check that when I get back to the bike but I am 99% sure it is the same as your picture. I bought one from RPM when I got some engine bars and other goodies, that one as well as one from work gave the same result i was told.

Fj-13a, m what do you mean about multiple connections to one terminal?

[fj-f3a]

85 is grounded directly to negative battery terminal, 30 is direct to battery with a 10 amp fuse in between. 87a has nothing connected.

Correct, so far.

The wires are red with a white stripe. As I understand it, it was basically cut, and these ends were connected to the relay (86 and 87 as described in initial post)

In your case, one of the red with a white stripe wires should be connected to terminal 86 of the new coil relay, the other terminated in a suitable connector to prevent shorting to the frame.
Terminal 87 should then be connected to each coil where the original red and white wires were connected.

When I do this mod, I shall be using two 68024BL relays in this configuration.

Gavin

[Canada.Mach]

Thanks for the help! After a reading that and looking at other posts, I now realize my mechanic did it a bit wrong (and our electrical guy just knows electrical, so was making sure it was good on that front). And now I'm feeling a little dumb for not catching this sooner, because the way it is we are still just going through the stock wires! D'oh!

someone said the stock wires route through the ignition switch even, so maybe that is why with the key on we reading 10v from the "coil" end? And I guess, is it possible we have screwed something up having this relay wired all silly like? (Have ridden about 10 hours/500km since, but last night I went to go for a ride and had zero electrical power when I turned the key on, not even lights. Am hoping something just came loose, since all was good when I rode home earlier that day)

Anyway, so the correct way to do this is as you say- hook up the wire from the igniter to 86, terminate the other end of the original wire, and then run new wires to the coils like you say. Now that I have the time to tinker myself, I will give it a shot! (Right after I figure out why I suddenly had 0 electrical power when I went to go for a ride last night..)

[Canada.Mach]

85 is grounded directly to negative battery terminal, 30 is direct to battery with a 10 amp fuse in between. 87a has nothing connected.

Correct, so far.

The wires are red with a white stripe. As I understand it, it was basically cut, and these ends were connected to the relay (86 and 87 as described in initial post)

In your case, one of the red with a white stripe wires should be connected to terminal 86 of the new coil relay, the other terminated in a suitable connector to prevent shorting to the frame.
Terminal 87 should then be connected to each coil where the original red and white wires were connected.

When I do this mod, I shall be using two 68024BL relays in this configuration.

Gavin

Gavin, I thought I followed everything until you posted that diagram. Why are you using 2 relays, and how is that working? Is there an advantage to that configuration?

[fj-f3a]

The twin relay setup keeps the installation neat and tidy.

When doing any electrical work on your FJ, it is imperative that you use the correct tooling and techniques.

Consider using a connector like this.

http://www.vintageconnections.com/Products/Detail/132

Also, use the correct crimping tool. A proper "Crimp" connection is Far Superior to solder joints.

These connectors will not fit the original connectors on the FJ, although they look similar, so you will have to replace the original connectors by removing the spade terminals from the plastic shroud and fitting them into the new shrouds.
Not a hard job.
Ultimately, what you want to manufacture is a "Plug In" relay/lead assembly which simply "Plugs in between" the original connectors.
Later this evening (Australian time), I shall post some more diagrams for a clearer explanation.

Gavin

[Canada.Mach]

That would be awesome, thanks a bunch! On the relays you posted, could you not have power on 30, and then each 87 outputting to a single coil?
Am I right in thinking on that diagram of two relays, the power from the battery goes to 87, and "jumpers over" to the other relay via the second 87, and then when the relay is activated it gets sent to the coil through 30? Also You have red/white going into both relays, where did those come from? From the ignitor there's only one that I saw, does it split further up the wire bundle?

Those gold connections look like what we used, they had two crimp points. it crimped on the wire bare wire with a crimping tool, then a dab of solder, then crimped on the insulated wire and heat shrink. We did not add in plugs like shown because we were clearly way off the intended mark

A plug in deal sounds exactly like what is best- then if something fails you can avoid the relay and go back to "stock" setup in a pinch, correct?

I think I am also confused on the orange and brown wires..what is done with those? They get added into the new connection you showed, correct? Or if I were to keep old connections, the new wire from the relay would get plugged into the existing connectors (or connected to the existing red/white wire)?

(I realize I sound super green, I'm definitely at the start of the learning curve here!)

[Dieselman7.3]

Looking to do this relay mod myself,  just to understand a little bit better. The red/white wire on the coil is what's used to power up the relay(s). The factory feed wires to the coils do they get removed for the new wire coming from the relay or do you just splice into them. Thanks.

[fj-f3a]

The first Diagram is the current set up.

The second diagram is the configuration for a single 5 pin "Normally Open Relay".
If you use a cross over relay, you will have to terminate the two wires going from the relay to the coils, to the single pin 87.

The third diagram is the configuration for a twin 5 pin "Normally Open Relay".

When doing the relay modification, remove the original plastic shrouds and replace with aftermarket shrouds.

You can use any two pin 6.3mm connectors but the connectors in the link above are the closest I have found to original.

Gavin

[Dieselman7.3]

Thank you. That cleared up my concerns. The orange and gray wire must be negative?

[fj-f3a]

The Orange and Grey wires go to the Ignition Unit and control the Current in the "Primary Winding" of the Coil.
When the Ignition unit connects either of these wires to Ground (0 volts), current flows in the Primary Winding (approx 6 amps). This is the "Dwell Time".
When the Ignition Unit open circuits either of these wires, current in the Primary Winding ceases.
This causes the Magnetic Field to collapse on produces a high (20,000 +) voltage in the coils Secondary winding to fire the Spark Plug.

It is imperative that these wires be correctly connected as depicted.

Gavin

[Dieselman7.3]

Thanks I just like to be sure before I mess with anything that could render my bike out of commission or ruin a perfectly good part out of stupidity. I have a good automotive background with newer vehicles and tractors/ big diesels but only have personal experience with bikes let alone the age gap (almost never seen the good old stuff in shops)