Another bad Kreem job

[Tuned forks]

Randy, what fluid are you using?  Distilled water?

Joe

[ryanschoebel]

You know you want to....

We all want it 

[racerrad8]

Tap water and sodium carbonate

Nope,  had a old cell phone charger that wasn't good for anything else.

Plus,  trying to go slow and not damage the paint.

Randy -RPM

[X-Ray]

I have read many good things about both POR15 and the KBS system, don't think you can go wrong with either. Kreem on the other hand......   But whatever is used, if the prep isn't done correctly, it will all come back to bite.

I'm with Noel, full tank of fuel when parked up, as my bikes don't get out as often as they should.    but I also add around 30-40 mls of Seafoam and run it through before switching off as well.  Following your progress Randy,  

[balky1]

Randy, what fluid are you using?  Distilled water?

Joe

Distilled water is practically an insulator so you would have no current for the electrolysis. You need ions in solution (i.e. some salt that will melt in water).

[Troyskie]

I'm with Noel and Ivan.

I try and stop at the servo to fill up after every run.
If I'm commuting, I generally forget about it till I need fuel.

Ivan is spot on, without a mild electrolye the galvanic reaction is significantly reduced.

If we go 10amps, is there a way to run a high speed camera, so when it goes we can see in slow-mo the sexy bits?
How about we rig a pizo ignitor on a servo, linked to a web cam & we can bet on the time it takes, then hit the trigger at our posted time to see if it goes off?

I am going to follow up Randy's experiment on a couple of messed up tanks I have spare.

One is old and needs a good clean and coat. I'll do that with the electroplating method.

The other has a new KBS coat and I'll do some experiments to try and ruin the coat. Lets see what we can do with them. Then I'll experiment on different ways to remove the coat.

Regarding the KBS, I've used both POR15 and KBS. Both have proven to me to be durable.

Preparation and deep rust/crud removal are the key. The metal needs to be uniform in a number of ways.
Primarily it needs to have a uniform metallic surface for the electroplating to bond to, or if painted, a compatible uniform texture for the paint to bond to.
These, depending on the damage, might be different, i.e. the inside of the tank might have rust hole repairs or other changes which could change the electrical potential of the surface and cause areas which are only superficially coated. Or for painting, they might promote an outgassing between the dissimilar surfaces which grows a small (sometimes large) blister under the coating.

The lowest points in the tank pick-up with the most crud and it can be deep. Randy mentioned the 'thick' near the bottom and I can only assume that the tank was left sitting like that by mistake during coating, or more ominously, there are either holes being blocked by the paint, or holes filled by the paint.
If it is the latter, if the paint on the outside is high quality then it might be ok. If the paint is low quality I give it another few years.

In the spirit of back yard experiments I will ensure that guns, petrol, working motorcycles and alcohol are accessible at all times 

[ribbert]

In the spirit of back yard experiments I will ensure that guns, petrol, working motorcycles and alcohol are accessible at all times 

If they are the essentials of a backyard experiment at your place, I've been to one.

Noel

[ribbert]

I'm with Noel and Ivan.

I try and stop at the servo to fill up after every run.

It would appear this is a fairly common practice. We all know that if everything is in good order, the fuel tank won't empty into the crankcase and all over the floor. We also know that FJ's don't always play by the rules in this regard. I'm sure the majority have suffered such an event at least once and of those that haven't, I suspect the possibility lurks in the back of their mind.

While this would be annoying to find in the garage, it would be a disaster in some remote location or would ruin your day if on a trip, the worst possible outcome would be if it went up in a ball of flames.

It used to worry me that the extra head pressure from a full tank increased the likelihood of such an event while I was sleeping, so for less than $30 I now have peace of mind with this:




The default position is closed and it has a manual over ride in the event of a failure. A solonoid valve is very simple with not much to go wrong. I've put many 10's of 1000's of km's on this, works like a beauty.

I have posted about it several times but I suspect very few have done it. You could throw that dodgy petcock over your shoulder with one of these.

Noel

[Tuned forks]

If I owned one of the early bikes, I'd be all over that like white on rice.

Joe

[Pat Conlon]

My take: On Fuel pumpers it would be ok, but not really needed (with the proper fuel pump used)
On gravity fed, no...at least not the size Noel used....it's too small in diameter for the flow needed.

[JMR]

 I have posted this before for gravity fed units....http://www.pingelonline.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=3CCC32F0434D41F0B6C89EC32D85EB11 . Use a 90 degree fitting straight out the tank and a filter and you never have to think about fuel flow after you turn off the engine. It will feed 170HP all day. Great on early CBX's too!

[ribbert]

My take: On Fuel pumpers it would be ok, but not really needed (with the proper fuel pump used)
On gravity fed, no...at least not the size Noel used....it's too small in diameter for the flow needed.

My take on your take:   Pat, we are reminded from time to time of your FJ guru status in the form of glowing praise from the membership (it must be true, I read it on the net!) but in this case, your post falls a bit short of the usual high standard we are accustomed to.

Assuming the "proper" pump you refer to is the OEM unit, they are the ones that periodically fail to hold back the fuel.
As for the gravity feed, it is the same size ID as the rest of the system. You could run a V8 on the fuel flow through that but if you're not happy, fit bigger tails to it and if you're still not happy with that, buy the next size up!

What about JMR's vac version?

IMO: Insuranace against fuel dumps aside, fuel taps (petcocks) became redundant when bikes were fitted with fuel gauges, their primary purpose to provide an on/off feature and the reserve function. Fuel dumping and dodgy petcocks are a constant on the forum. I would not spend 5 cents fixing one, I would just get rid of it, they don't serve any real purpose.

I sometimes wonder while reading of the woes being experienced with petcocks if the owner realises doing away it, such as JMR has done, is an option. Still having one on you bike makes no more sense than having one on your car.

Noel

[ribbert]

I have posted this before for gravity fed units....http://www.pingelonline.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=3CCC32F0434D41F0B6C89EC32D85EB11 . Use a 90 degree fitting straight out the tank and a filter and you never have to think about fuel flow after you turn off the engine. It will feed 170HP all day. Great on early CBX's too!

A vacuum version of much the same thing, excellent. Like the solenoid, it's simple, I like that. Seems a bit pricey for what it is though.

Noel

[Pat Conlon]

Well Noel, sorry my opinion is not up to your expectations...(no, not really)

You need to know what you're talking about, and in this case, because you don't have a gravity fed FJ, you don't know what you are talking about. You have a fuel pump FJ.

You do realize that the petcock and fuel lines and float needle seats are larger on a gravity fed system...correct? They are designed that way because they need to be that size...the gravity system does not have the benefit of a fuel pump pushing the fuel to the carbs, like on your bike.

As I mentioned, my take (aka my opinion) is that the solenoid in the picture may be fine for a fuel pump system, but it appears too small in diameter for a gravity fed system feeding 4 carbs and a thirsty engine.
The solenoid idea might have merit, just not that size on a '84-87 gravity fed FJ.

For the cost of the Pringel vacuum valve, you could save some money and just buy a brand new oem Yamaha 84/85 petcock from RPM (safety wired) and be good to go for another 30 years.
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3A36Y-24500-01

[JMR]

I have posted this before for gravity fed units....http://www.pingelonline.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=3CCC32F0434D41F0B6C89EC32D85EB11 . Use a 90 degree fitting straight out the tank and a filter and you never have to think about fuel flow after you turn off the engine. It will feed 170HP all day. Great on early CBX's too!

A vacuum version of much the same thing, excellent. Like the solenoid, it's simple, I like that. Seems a bit pricey for what it is though.

Noel

I totally agree.