oil cosumption

[courtsdaddy]

I have notice after the last couple of rides that I am losing a bit of oil.  Just was wondering if any one has to put oil in after a running it a while.  I just bought the bike in Dec 09 so I did not get a chance to ride it and see if this was a problem when I bought it but I have noticed that if I ride it 100 miles or so( easy) the oil level will not change, however if I am getting on it often that I am using oil.  If it is rings can I just replace them or will I need a complete rebuild.  I cant let this go on because I am using amsoil and that shit is not cheap.  If I have to baby it until winter then so be it just was wounder if the ol-FJ is common on using oil?

[mz_rider]

I have notice after the last couple of rides that I am losing a bit of oil.  Just was wondering if any one has to put oil in after a running it a while.  I just bought the bike in Dec 09 so I did not get a chance to ride it and see if this was a problem when I bought it but I have noticed that if I ride it 100 miles or so( easy) the oil level will not change, however if I am getting on it often that I am using oil.  If it is rings can I just replace them or will I need a complete rebuild.  I cant let this go on because I am using amsoil and that shit is not cheap.  If I have to baby it until winter then so be it just was wounder if the ol-FJ is common on using oil?

My experience is that FJs don't use a lot of oil, but the consumption increases with miles. My newer FJ with 48,000 miles needs about a litre (or US quart) between changes at 4,000 miles. My old one uses more, a litre every 1,200 miles or so, but its done over 130,000 miles without a rebuild of any kind. I can live with these figures. I think consumption was very low on both bikes up to 20-30,000 miles. Think positive - burning a bit of oil will stop the exhaust rotting out!   

Stuart (Glasgow, Scotand)

[roverfj1200]

With 110000 km on the clock my 88 burns about half a litre every 1600 km.. As Stuart said I can live with that.

[mikeholzer]

Coming up on 87,000 miles, and I have to add a quart every 1200-1500 miles. A new bike is out of the question right now, and oil isn't that expensive. I cope.

[courtsdaddy]

Thanks, sounds like I will just put up with it.  I didnt think this was normal but makes sense with the high miles.

[Dan Filetti]

If it makes you feel any better, (probably not)...  I had a service manager at an Audi dealer tell me with a straight face that "oil loss of 1 qt. every 1200 miles was perfectly normal" on my A4 that had 40K miles.  He actually tried to explain by telling me that the ring tolerances were intentionally loose for longevity reasons.  I promptly sold that pig.  I will never buy German again.

Dan

[Bill_Rockoff]

Oil consumption of less than a quart every 1,000 miles is, if not exactly normal in this age of 300,000 Accord sales a year, considered acceptable industry-wide. 

I know a lot of people who refuse to buy German for a variety of reasons, but any manufacturer anywhere will turn you away if you go in there expecting a rebuild or a new engine for that amount of consumption.  (Rotaries burn more than that deliberately!)  A quart every >1,000 miles isn't worth rebuilding, and it's not abnormal - it's the reason you're supposed to check it periodically, like tire pressure.  It's not worth worrying about, unless last 1,000 miles it burned zero and time around it has suddenly increased to "needs a quart."  (Even then, it's only worth keeping an eye on because it's the symptom of another problem, not the problem itself.)   

Think about what's going on inside an engine, with 4 or more (3 if you're George's Metro) pistons cycling up and down several inches, hundreds of times a second, at anywhere from -40 to "the boiling point of water" with localized temps reaching "the melting point of copper," with pressures reaching hundreds of PSI during combustion.  If you expect that to happen two million times without leaking by a little bit, you're just not being realistic.

[andyb]

First question, you sure you're burning it, not leaking it?

Otherwise the easy thing is to check the compression/leakdown numbers, and they'll tell you a good bit about the relative health of your motor.  Acceptable consumption levels are really specific to how much you think is okay.

A motor that burns a little oil all the time is probably having poor ring seal.
A motor that burns oil mostly at high rpm on trailing throttle has bad valve seals, pulling it past from high vacuum.

[courtsdaddy]

Thanks Andy, I think you just hit it on the head.  My buddy told me when I go flying by it smells really bad if I am really getting on it.  When I let off he said he can see a puff of smoke un clear what color.  I will do the testing and see what we come up with.   Just woundering is replacing the valve seals a bad job? I will take it easy on it until I find out what it is for sure.  She is still new to me and I love the power so its hard to stay out of it. lol

[Dan Filetti]

Oil consumption of less than a quart every 1,000 miles is, if not exactly normal in this age of 300,000 Accord sales a year, considered acceptable industry-wide. 

If you expect that to happen two million times without leaking by a little bit, you're just not being realistic.

Don't much care what 'the industry' has to say is normal.  A year ago, I bought my 4th Honda Accord, each of the previous of which I have indeed topped 200K plus miles with little to no drama and a shockingly low TCO/ overall cost/ mile.  My last accord lost almost 1 quart of oil every 3500 miles, but it had 246,000 miles.  This is not inconsistent -I had a '94 with more miles that burned ZERO oil between oil changes -well maybe a quarter of a quart -not even worth topping off.

Bill with all due respect, if I can, have consistently, and likely will continue getting "two million [reciprocations] without leaking by a little bit" from another, non-German manufacturer, why would I pay a premium for an name with with inferior build quality?  The answer: I won't AKA, I'll never buy German again.  My cost of ownership for Honda products have been VASTLY lower than the Audi and BMW's I have owned.  A lofty German name is just not worth spending ~twice -in my experience, what I spend/ have spent on it's Japanese competition.

So my actual real life experience seems to fly in the face of what you call "unrealistic".  I can expect it because I have consistently gotten it and have no reason to expect that it will go away, nor become unrealistic.

You have the same "it is the way it is -you're unrealistic to expect otherwise" attitude that I got from that Audi service manager, for a $38K car that had 40K miles on it.  It set me off then and it's setting me off now a bit... If I can realistically expect it from another manufacturer then I'll go there, and not come back.

Dan     

[Yamifj1200]

Not all of them use oil. Mines got just a tad over 106,000 miles and the oil level is the same after 4,000 miles. Frank can verify this, I dont run the shit out of my bike but it does get ridden on a regular basis. I'd say if your using oil its a problem. either valve stem seals, valve stems or possibly rings. I'd be looking for some one to do a compression test and a leak down test on it. Those two test will tell you what you need to know and where to head for a cure to your oil consumption. Good luck and let us know what you find out..

Eric M

[mst3kguy]

mine goes thru a lot of oil, esp at the rallies where i'm in the 6k-9k range and using engine braking.  i'm sure it's the valve guide rod seals or whatever it is based on high rpm decel, but i'm not worried about it.  i just carry a couple quarts.

[Bill_Rockoff]

I think FJ's that have run hot (traffic, etc.) tend to burn a bit of oil.  Ask the guys who have ridden behind me, I'm burning a bit at 95,000 miles and have to add half a quart every few hundred miles.  We all love the FJ lump, but I think the heat gets to them in a lot of little ways (clutch slave seal, valve cover grommets, and maybe a bit of ring wear or relaxing of tension that gives the old girl a bit of smoke.)

Dan, I'm with you that a 40,000 mile ANYTHING should be pretty much flawless, and I agree that Audis (and BMW's) typically are not, and Hondas typically are.  The major Japanese manufacturers seem to have aimed their metallurgy toward longevity, and the German manufacturers seem to be otherwise inclined.  I know BMW had issues with cylinder liners and block porosity in the 1990's, and I know Porsche had some chronic problems with early 2.5L Boxsters (breaking the lip off cylinder liners, which would then displace in the block and expose coolant passages and combustion chambers to each other.)

However, I don't think there's any manufacturer that would address your stated oil consumption as a warranty claim.  I agree that it's more consumption than you'd likely get from a Honda, and I agree that it's disturbing in a 40,000 mile car that is probably still $20,000 away from being paid off.  It doesn't matter whether or not I agree with you that Audi owed you an engine rebuild -  the fact is that nobody is going to "fix" that under warranty because there's nobody who considers that "broken."  If you plan to base your future purchases on "which ones would have fixed this for you" you're pretty much going to have to smelt your own ore and cast your own engine block.   A quart every 1,200 miles is like "a squeak from the interior" - just not considered a problem worth fixing under warranty.

35 years ago, a quart every 1,000 miles wasn't an unusual amount of consumption.  Amazing how far cars have come since the 1970's.

[Dan Filetti]

However, I don't think there's any manufacturer that would address your stated oil consumption as a warranty claim.  

Bill-

I am happy to have never been in the situation with any of my Honda's to have to test your assertion.  But if I were to have, I'd bet they'd be as shocked as I was.  Hell, the R&D boys may well want to get their hands on it to find out what went wrong...

I do know this,  in '06, my '05 Pilot transmission lost a drop of fluid or so a day, and it was not until I parked it over a freshly paved driveway for a couple of days, that it became obvious, the dealership was out right embarrassed to tell me that the bell housing was cast poorly and allowing fluid through. 

The dealer general manager called me himself and was out right apologetic, and contrite.  He offered me a new car @ their cost -all I'd need to pay was the depreciation difference, ~ $1,700 or so.  Alternatively he offered to replace the trans and reset the warranty for the whole car at current mileage. All of this happened well before I knew there was a significant issue, I figured a hose fitting or some such, the next thing I know the apologetic GM is calling my cell offering me options.  I was given an upgraded rental for the week it took them to install the new tranny, and detail the car.  The point I took from this was that they never lost track of the fact that it should not have happened in the first place. 

They did not have to do this.  They could have acted as if it's not that bad, or put me off, or whatever, but they responded as they did, because, from what I can tell, they were shocked that it had happened in the first place.

Maybe it's an enigma, maybe they would not have done the same with an oil consumption issue, -especially, in these new economic times, but again, I'm glad not to have not had to test that water.

Cheers!

Dan   

[junkyardroad]

The dealer general manager called me himself and was out right apologetic, and contrite.  He offered me a new car @ their cost -all I'd need to pay was the depreciation difference, ~ $1,700 or so.  Alternatively he offered to replace the trans and reset the warranty for the whole car at current mileage. All of this happened well before I knew there was a significant issue, I figured a hose fitting or some such, the next thing I know the apologetic GM is calling my cell offering me options.  I was given an upgraded rental for the week it took them to install the new tranny, and detail the car.  The point I took from this was that they never lost track of the fact that it should not have happened in the first place. 

This is ranging far from FJs but...My new 2003 $45,000 Ford Excursion started dripping oil after 700 miles, and I fought the fuckers through 3 engines, 1 transmission all the way thru the hearing where I handed them their ass.  Ford people do not know the law, or cars, or how to appropriately handle legit claims. Soo...

I am happy to hear your story of a successful conclusion to a real problem. All to rare these days.
 
A quart of Rotella oil is pretty cheap, save your money on the Amsoil, and ride until its really smoking or losing power or causing other problems. Tear it down when it is convienient, like in the fall after riding is over.

FWIW mine is a 23.5K with no oil loss.