1992 FJ1200 with ABS Dragging clutch or gears shiffter issues... I still loveher

[Old Rider]

That is the gasket for the sprocketcover its not really needed.i never had that gasket installed and did not install it when i rebuild my engine .  If i where you i take off the sprocketcover and clean up in there .

[RPM - Robert]

Bleeder Banjo Bolt
OEM Master Cylinder Screw
Allen Head Master Cylinder Screws A bit easier to get on and off for maintenance
Sprocket Cover Gasket Is between the case and sprocket cover. They are used to keep excessive dirt, grime, chain lube, etc. from flinging out of the sprocket area.

[red]

OK, I tried to open the clutch reservoir in order to remove as much dot 4 as possible from the top and, as you can see in the picture attached, the second bolt to open the reservoir was really stuck in there and the head stripped  So that's pretty much it, I couldn't do much more... what do you guys suggest to do with this bolt? drill the head off and deal with the rest once the cover is off?

One more silly question, for bleeding the system cant I just leave the top reservoir cover open and start adding fluid from the bottom bleeder and flickering the hose until the reservoir fills up and loses the air in a natural way? bubbles go up etc... then just screw the cover in and that's it? Leave the lever tight with the bunjy during all this process and lose it the next night.

Otherwise, I would rather fit the banjo bolts with bleeders, sounds more natural to bleed through the top, I found in another post that the banjo bolts for our master cylinders are M10 x 1.25 pitch and about 18mm long from the shoulders of the bolt downwards.

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=7916.0

Even furthermore, cant I just drill the banjo that is there now and thread it to take a bleeder? speed or regular one?... I do have a bench drill and am not foreign to create thread... any takers?

THXFJ1200,

Drilling the head off is the straightforward approach now.  There are also "dig-in" screw extractors that cut into the metal (NOT an EZ-out) to give enough bite to unscrew anything that will unscrew.  Check the tool stores.  If the screw snaps off then, it was seized, and I would want a good master cylinder as a replacement, then.

Not sure how you could pump fluid up from the bleeder.  Nice idea, but it will leak at the bleeder threads.  You would need to clamp the hose on, to take the pressure, also.  Let us know if you get that done; you may start a movement.   

If the stock banjo bolts have enough metal at the head, it may be okay to drill and tap for a bleeder.  Let us know if you make that happen.
.

[THXFJ1200]

OK, this is what I have in my checkout list so far from RPM. Just wanted to share and see if anyone comes with an other item I should add, this is the third shipment in little more than two weeks... trying to avoid extra shipping, learn from my own mistakes... heheheh

Sprocket Cover Gasket x1
Allen Head Brake Reservoir Cap Screw x2
Bleeder Banjo BoltBleeder Banjo Bolt x2
Slave Cylinder Rebuild Kit x1
Brake Line Copper Crush Washer x4
Clutch Hub Lock WasherClutch Hub Lock Washer x1

Notice I have an extra banjo bolt and crush washers just for any future front brake work.
Also if I end up installing the banjo bolt at the master cylinder, does that mean I don't have to fiddle with the bleeder at the caliper and can just leave it there for good, I mean the thing is rounded and not going anywhere...Might as well just let it be? Or would I still need to work with it in order to dissipate the bubbles in the slave cylinder itself? If that's the case could I order a replacement for it with RPM?

The speed bleeder people have not answered my email...  

Seems something is not in stock in RPM... so maybe I will need to wait a little bit.

OK listening for options and then pulling the trigger on that order at the end of the day.
Going to work now.
Thanks to everyone!

[red]

if I end up installing the banjo bolt at the master cylinder, does that mean I don't have to fiddle with the bleeder at the caliper and can just leave it there for good...Might as well just let it be? Or would I still need to work with it in order to dissipate the bubbles in the slave cylinder itself? If that's the case could I order a replacement for it with RPM?

THXFJ1200,

The next few times you bleed the brakes or the clutch, if you get no bubbles at the caliper or the slave cylinder, then it may be okay to just bleed at the master cylinders.  Depends on what results you will get, over time.

[THXFJ1200]

OK, just ordered the last goods from RPM.
I will dedicate some time to study the clutch bleeding procedure... I know some Shimano bike brakes I have bled like that, from low to high and they work great after that...
One tricky question, degassing or not degassing, personally I have always thought if you don't shake the fluid bottle like a maniac there is no reason for bubbles to be microscopically there, and hence degassing to me looks like a waste of time and probably a way to induce gas into the fluid... I have a DIU pressure bleeder that I use in my car, I might try it in this clutch job and see what can I do with it.

Thanks for the advice.
See you on the road.

Serge

[FJ_Hooligan]

Another bleeding trick is to tie the lever back with a bungee cord, and let it sit that way overnight.  Why I can't say, but it helps to get the air out.

I know why that works.  It's the OVERNIGHT part that makes it work.  The best tool for bleeding brakes or the clutch is PATIENTS.

On the clutch try just tapping the lever on the master piston.  This will tease the air up and out of the line.  Trying to push the air down to the slave bleeder takes forever.  Again, take your time and wait for the air to rise.

Also, if you attempt a reverse bleed by forcing fluid up from the slave be sure to put the mater cover on because when the fluid hits the master is will spew all over the place.  And brake fluid is very damaging to paint and plastic.

[FJmonkey]

I agree with Red. The clutch master will self bleed. I guess the brake side as well considering it is the same mechanism in mirror image. I removed the line at the master one day. I planned to bleed the system at the end. After connecting the line back to the master I removed the cover. Then I thought about how much air might have been introduced by taking the line off. So I slowly cycled the clutch lever to see how it feels. I saw small air bubbles escaping up from the bottom of the master. After a few cycles the clutch lever felt normal. So I put the cap back on and tested the clutch function. All was good, no additional bleeding required. Air will rise and given enough time, will find its way back up the master.

The same port that allows fluid to return to the master is also how air escapes up and out of the system.

[FJ_Hooligan]

I know why that works.  It's the OVERNIGHT part that makes it work.  The best tool for bleeding brakes or the clutch is PATIENTS.

Man, I really hate stupid errors.  It was early, no caffeine yet.  That should be PATIENCE

[THXFJ1200]

Here is my take on this, following all there has been said so far in regards to bleeding the slave cylinder...

I already also ordered a new bleeder from RPM for the slave cylinder, since mine came off in really poor shape, and I also ordered a bleeder in the new banjo bolt at the connexion with the master.

I think I will try to start filing the system from the lower bleeder up, maybe put some plumbers putty around the thread area to avoid air coming in through there? I would do this with my pressure bleeder and with the banjo bolt off and a container attached to it... previously covering the paint areas with a poly sheet so no fluid is spilled anywhere on the bike.

On the other half of the system, I will fill up the master with fluid without touching the lever and cover it (new cover screws with Allen heads coming from RPM as well) then I will make the banjo bolt thread to the master as high as possible by tilting the master in the steering bars. then once both halves are quite filled up and probably with little air inside I will proceed to assemble the system and bleed it as old hooligan says by flickering the lever and extract air through the banjo bolt bleeder that at this point should be the highest point in there, also flickering the hose see if some more bubbles come out. 
Once it seems all good I will bring the lever all the way to the handlebars and tight it up with something, Bungie or zip-strap, and leave it overnight... PATIENCE (right old hooligan  )
The next day I will just take a test ride and see what's what...

What do you think of this? RED / FJmonkey / FJ_hooligan / old rider / etc

I will write back with my results.

Thanks again you guys, this is so much easier with your support!

[FJmonkey]

Sounds good. Keep a spray bottle of water or water based cleaner to wash/rinse any spilled brake fluid. It will not cause damage right away, but left on it will eat away the paint and weaken plastic. Since the water is harmless to the paint, use liberally in the event of a spill/drip. 

[red]

I think I will try to start filing the system from the lower bleeder up, maybe put some plumbers putty around the thread area to avoid air coming in through there? I would do this with my pressure bleeder and with the banjo bolt off and a container attached to it... previously covering the paint areas with a poly sheet so no fluid is spilled anywhere on the bike.
What do you think of this? RED / FJmonkey / FJ_hooligan / old rider / etc

THXFJ1200,

Sounds very thorough.  I expect the work to go well.  Rather than plumbers putty (I'm not familiar with that stuff), you might want to try a wrap of "pipe dope" thin plastic ribbon sealer around the upper threads of the bleeder.  Any plumbing or hardware store will have it.  It sticks to nothing, and stays put only by stretching it into place on the threads.  The store will probably show you how, on big pipes.  For right handed threads, turn the bleeder rightly (the tightening direction) as you wrap the tape.  One layer may be enough, on those  small threads.  If you decide to remove it later, you should be able to cap the bleeder, unscrew the bleeder slightly, and peel it off easily.  Unlike other sealers, you will be able to tell if you have removed it all.
.

[CutterBill]

I've never had any trouble at all bleeding FJ clutches.

I think I will try to start filing the system from the lower bleeder up, maybe put some plumbers putty around the thread area to avoid air coming in through there?

That's how I do it. Drain the system completely, then fill from the slave bleeder. I use a trigger-type oil can with a short length of hose. Cheap and easy. And you don't need any putty or other sealant. Also, I strongly advise you to use DOT 5 silicone fluid. It works perfectly and it doesn't damage the paint if it spills. It is slightly thicker than DOT 4 fluid and I can feel a very slight difference in the feel of the lever. But if you got on my bike and I didn't tell you it was filled with DOT 5, you wouldn't know. (Note: it also works great in the brake system but it says on the can "Do not use on ABS systems." I'll take their word for it.)

On the subject of those cross-head screws... there isn't a single Phillips-head screw anywhere on an Fj. Or any other Japanese bike, for that matter. Those are JIS screws and require JIS screwdrivers. And yes, it does make a difference. Using Phillips screwdrivers on FJ screws is like using Vice-grip pliers to remove bolts. Yeah, it works. Sort of...

Go here. Buy the set with the #1, 2 & 3 screwdrivers.  https://www.mcmaster.com/jis-(japanese-industrial-standard)-screwdrivers
Bill

[red]

THXFJ1200,

You can buy JIS Apex-style screwdriver bits for US$5.00 here:

https://cyclemax.com/inc/sdetail/jis_cross_head_screwdriver_tips/4102/283408

Bring your own screwdriver/bit holder, of course.  I use mine with a 1/4" socket, for offsets and stubborn screws.
.

[THXFJ1200]

Thanks, red and Bill, for the bits advice, I already bought a couple of Allen key screws sets from RPM for the clutch and brake reservoirs. I must have some of this kind of bits in the sets I have around, I just never knew they had a different name than the Phillips ones, I will educate myself in regards to this soon.

I am about to start working on the clutch and shifter this weekend, I will need to know what kind of oil to use in order to put the clutch plates to soak in oil 24h or so before installation, then do an oil change... I just noticed I will need a filter, I think I will just go to a local store for that. But in the oil topic I know there is always a lot of favorites etc... I have like 1.5 liters of this kind of oil that I did an oil change in my previous bike.

See the attached image for the kind of oil I have handy. this link gives some info on its properties, it mentions wet clutch so I think I must be in the right track.
https://www.belray.com/product/bel-ray-exl-mineral-4t-engine-oil/

Please feel free to give me oil suggestions as per what it works for your bikes. I must indicate my weather is very fair, not extreme temperatures I mean. and I live pretty much at water level if that is even important. My bike is close to 70xxxkm if I remember well.