Back Problems

[racerrad8]

I am curious if any of our members have had any major back problems. A couple of weeks ago while lifting a heavy object with six other people, I twisted wrong and felt a twinge...

I tried to stretch through the rest of my day, took a hot shower and went to bed. I awoke the next morning, a Sunday, with shooting pain of my left leg. From my butt down to my foot. My foot and lower leg were numb when the shooting pain was not present. I went to the urgent care and the doc there told me I had a "strain", gave me drugs and told me to "rest for a week". I took the muscle relaxers, but shied away from the vicoden.

I went to my chiropractor on Monday and my hip alignment was off over 15mm according to the x-ray. Adjustments and ice for the week. During this time my foot and leg are no longer numb, but are tingling all of the time. If I sit, the pain and numbness instantly comes back. I have a ton of pain while I am trying to lay down as well.

Chiro doc sent me for an MRI on Friday and has advised my that I have a ruptured and fragmented disc in the lumbar area that is floating around and putting pressure on the sciatic nerve of my left side. I do not have all of the information yet as he called my in the evening at home to give me the news. He told me that he called a orthopaedic surgeon and scheduled me for a consultation this week. He told me this surgeon is great, but how does one really know? Here is the surgeons website; www.alexdavismd.com

My chiro is recommending surgery since it has been two weeks and we are not having any success to take care of the problem. He told me the surgery's success is close to 98% because they are just going in to remove the fragmented disc.

I have the same level of pain every morning when I wake from my crappy sleep. I slept all over from my bed, the couch, recliner and even the floor without any good sleep for two weeks. Heck, I am typing this now as I am standing and have brought my keyboard up so I don't have to bend over.

I guess my questions are to list a few; has anyone every had this type of surgery where they go in and just remove the fragmented piece? I am interested in the information if anyone has anyone had a back surgery that was successful or if it did not work at all. If so, do you have any recommendations of specific questions I should be asking the surgeon? An epidural was scheduled for tomorrow but the surgeon wanted to see me prior to that procedure, so I see him on Friday.

So for such a long post, a little concerned about this situation and the lingering affects following surgery and the unknown.

If you would rather not discuss this in the public forum view, please either shoot me a PM or an email with you phone number. I would gladly call anyone to discuss this issue that I am currently facing.

Thanks for listening,
                  Randy - RPM
                 

[WS]

Hi Randy,

   you must be a mechanic you do not trust any body else. I am a mechanic and had a lot of back pain too. But not what you described. It sounds scary. But before going to surgery you should try a couple different things. Lay on the floor. Locate the pain spot. Get a tennis ball put it directly where it hurts. Let your whole body weight rest on that spot and start moving in circles around that spot. It is pain like hell but it relieves and helps. For me so far. You may have to do it a couple times.  Take hot bathes and a hard brush. Stroke the brush  in one direction away from your heart towards the leg and the whole leg you have trouble with. It starts your blood flow in that area.   If it does not help try accupunture. I am not a doctor but like I said before doing surgery I would try everything else. And then start Aikido

greetings Werner

[ren-dog]

Hey Randy,

Sorry to hear about your back injury mate.
My spine degraded slowly over the years due to leaning over engines, lying on bitumen
in the freezing cold/stinking hot. One rather bloody cold morning in Canberra I slipped on some ice
whilst atop a grabage compacting unit. The distance was only 1.5m (4.5ft), but I chipped
something off one of the sacral vertebrae and according to Murphy's Law, the chip punctured
one of the discs.

The operation to remove the bone fragment was successful, except the damn anesthesiologist
scraped the sciatic nerve whilst injecting the epidural. If I sit down in a lounge/sofa for more than
20mins, my lower spine and right leg down to the knee throb like buggery. The discomfort ranks
about 6 out of 10. But what do I know about pain? I've never given birth right.
Well similar thing happened to my wife, leaving her with sciatica too.

Doctors are a lot like mechanics. They need to go through a process of elimination, based on their
knowledge and techniques. Obviously they can't swap out parts, though they can inject drugs all
over the place to block pain receptors and make really great pictures with radioactive dyes.
Don't be so quick to jump for surgery, if you are hesitant. Go for a grease and oil change first.
It took a physio 3 weeks to get my ribs back in place after I'd popped three out joint.
In the end, it will all come down to the quality of the tradesman operating on you.

Hope that helps.
ren-dog out

[andyb]

Sounds like they're suggesting a microlaminectomy.  It's not a terribly nasty surgery, but like anything that tight to the spine, there can be some really nasty side effects if mistakes are made.

However, the longer you go walking around with significant damage/pain, the more permanent the damage can be, surgery or not.  So, take any mri/xrays you've got, run them past another doc, and see what their opinion is. 

For the cutting, go to a spine specialist or a neuro guy, not just some ortho.  Orthos do knees and hips great, but the stakes are higher on the back, so find the right guy to do tthe work.

[the fan]

try to get in touch with Chris Murphy on the Yahoo list. He has a long history of back issues.

Randy T may also have problems if I remember correctly.

My father had a similar surgery to the one you are looking a little over 20 years ago (think stone age) and he made a remarkable recovery. He did everything in his power to avoid the knife, and spent 10 years in and out of the hospital as a result. After his surgery he never went back for back problems.

[mst3kguy]

bill,

didn't randy t get his back problem from that rock he ran over when he was driving in kentucky?  the rock didn't cause the injury, but bending over and taking it from the state of kentucky did, i think.  ( :

[rktmanfj]

bill,

didn't randy t get his back problem from that rock he ran over when he was driving in kentucky?  the rock didn't cause the injury, but bending over and taking it from the state of kentucky did, i think.  ( :

The rock probably woulda been easier to take than what I got from the Commonwealth of Kentucky.     

That ECSR only cost me about $4k, all told.

Happy to say  that I figured out how to relieve most of my back symptoms, though.     

Randy T
Indy

[WMarshy]

... But before going to surgery you should try a couple different things. Lay on the floor. Locate the pain spot. Get a tennis ball put it directly where it hurts. Let your whole body weight rest on that spot and start moving in circles around that spot...

IMHO Your advice is a deffinite way to cause more damage! My advice it to inore his advice unless you want to be in "real" pain! They poor guy has shards of bone floating around near his disks and spinal cord and your advice is lay on the floor and put a tennis ball at the point of pain and lay on it! OMFG you gotta be kidding me, that is probably the worst thing you could do! In addition, accupunture might provide some short term pain releife but it wont heal a broken vertabra or remove the pressure its putting on the sciatica. Makes me wonder if people read more than the title of the posts...      You must be one of those people that put duct tape on their radiator hose that has a bulge in it and think they can get another 5K mi out of it.  
'Well I'll be, who woulda thunk demdair broken bones could be so dang sharp an pointy.'  

Sounds like they're suggesting a microlaminectomy.  It's not a terribly nasty surgery, but like anything that tight to the spine, there can be some really nasty side effects if mistakes are made.

However, the longer you go walking around with significant damage/pain, the more permanent the damage can be, surgery or not.  So, take any mri/xrays you've got, run them past another doc, and see what their opinion is.  

For the cutting, go to a spine specialist or a neuro guy, not just some ortho.  Orthos do knees and hips great, but the stakes are higher on the back, so find the right guy to do tthe work.

Randy,
It sounds like you have done the right thing thus far. I am a strong beleiver in chiropractics and it sounds like you have a good relation with your chiro as well. I agree the most with Andyb, dont put this off. You wouldnt wait untill your break pads are metal to metal to replace them, or use the wrong tools to work on your bike so make sure you have the right people with the right tools to work on your back, and get a second opinion! I have an uncle who had a similar injury as yours, only his injury is mid back and he crushed 2 or 3. He took some time off "to heal" and never got it looked at untill later when the damage got worse. Since then he has had 3 or more surguries to have bone shards removed and at one point had the nerve nicked by the operators tool. Now he is in 24/7 pain, takin 60mg Oxycotten (spelling?) 2, 3 times a day that dont provide any releife. Im not trying to scare you but rather let you know how bad things can be. Yea he has some good days but there are just as many bad one, I hate to see like that and dont want anyone to go through the same. Dont take it lightly, get second opinions and get the right doctor. By the sounds of it surgery is necessary, especially when there are bone fragments dont mess around. If the pain subsides dont be a hero and work beyound your means because the pain will come back and it will be worse.  Best of luck to you.

[Brook]

...... I have had six, lower back surgerys , [two in two days] in 1999 from L5 to L1 with rods and screws.
.. I can say all doctors, are not created equal.

[weymouth399]

.. I can say all doctors, are not created equal.

I wasn't going to say anything but this gets me going.

That is the understatement of the year! This is why on there medical license it says that they are a loud to PRACTICE medicine. be real sure of your doc, and get references. I know this by first hand experience and I had been to this doc before. But if he gets the day off and his partner fucks you up, your still fucked up.
So also check his backup. If it sounds like I'm bitter you bet when you die on a operating table because you broke a knee something has gone terribly wrong.
Thanks Bob

[the fan]

Just remember that full 1/2 of all doctors graduated in the top half of their class. The rest didn't.

[FJ Flyer]

+1 on Chris M.  I think he searched far and wide and found some really good docs.

I have two blown cervical discs. Had numb thumb and finger, then burning pain in shoulder and arm, which switched to the other side.

Doc prescribed drug therapy and PT for about 3-4 weeks. Seems to have helped, but I havnt got another MRI. Made riding a bitch for a while.

[WS]

Hey WMarshy, before I would go and get the surgery I would try anything else. And please do not judge me for advise that helped my back problems. I had tons of heavy weight lifting pain and it helped me. I do not trust any doctor. When it comes to your body you should stop thinking in a mechanical way. And there is a lot of different options out there that help. The hard part is to find the best way that helps you. And your body is amazingly strong and has a lot of ways to adjust. People just do not allow those options because of their ONE WAY THINKING. WS

[WMarshy]

Hey WMarshy, before I would go and get the surgery I would try anything else. And please do not judge me for advise that helped my back problems. I had tons of heavy weight lifting pain and it helped me. I do not trust any doctor. When it comes to your body you should stop thinking in a mechanical way. And there is a lot of different options out there that help. The hard part is to find the best way that helps you. And your body is amazingly strong and has a lot of ways to adjust. People just do not allow those options because of their ONE WAY THINKING. WS

WS, Im not judging you, obviously the tennis ball trick works well for you then so be it. But when someone has broken bones, especially vertebra, the most damaging thing one can do is create movement in that area. The bones are sharp, they have the potential to cut the spinal cord, puncture the sheath on the disk, and mangle the muscle tissue in that area. The muscle tissue will heal as hard scar tissue and that will only make matters worse (ie. loss of flexability and back pain from knotted scar tissue). I totally agree, there are a lot of options out there to help back problems without the fancy pills and getting surgery, and I believe chiropractics the proper way to resolve those issues (the body heals itself, if allowed to). Everything from headaches, allergies, numbness in legs hands, and more. My point is, once your dealing with broken vertebra your options are limited. If its just a fractured vertebra then only time is needed for it to heal. If the bone has fragmented then there is an urgency to go in and remove those pieces.

[andyb]

^ according to the original post, it's a popped disc, not a vertebral fracture.  Stretching won't really hurt.