non fj content, debate the VFR 800

[gumby302ho]

 Lately I have been curious about some newer machines, I will never sell my FJ, maybe before my death but I will never sell it. I am not looking to buy a newer bike either as I do love the old pain in the ass stuff but I do like looking into more modern bikes that have alot of hype. In rolls the VFR 800 and its variants. Has anyone rode one, the write ups point to it as being the best of the best for what most of us would love in a great motorcycle. EX modern brakes, no chain fuss, handling, FI etc etc. I dont think a 2005 VFR 800 could pass my FJ in a straight line at least I hope not!!!! I find them a little ugly but very interesting, V4 torgue and sound, yadda yadda. Bring on the new season, cant wait!

[Millietant]

That's an interesting thought - and something we looked into in 2003.

My wife had been riding her VF750F Interceptor for 12 years, and as we were taking the kids on a long tour of Europe in the summer of 2004, she was looking for a newer bike (her VF was by then 19yrs old with 40k miles on it) - and the VFR 800 was top of her wish list. She loved her 750 (we still have it) and liked the look of the 800, plus she felt it would just be "better" at everything than the 750 was.

Once she got on one that was a demonstrator from a great local dealer, the rose-tinted spectacles quickly disappeared. Gone we're most of the things she loved about the 750 (unique V4 feel/soul, very responsive at lower rpm's, nice semi-upright riding position and associated "ease of manoeuvring" at low speed/walking pace). She was gutted, she so badly wanted to love the VFR! She had toured Europe with me 7 or 8 years before riding my FJ 1200, while I was on my dad's Suzuki GSX 600 and loved the FJ, but also felt she wanted something more modern (and fully-faired).

When we took the VFR back to the dealer and explained the issues (comfort, manoeuvreability, power improvement vs the 750), the salesmon showed her a Yamaha FZ1 (Fazer 1000 over here in the U.K.) and she immediately said "no" - not a V4, not a Honda and not fully faired. Anyway, he persuaded her to take it for a test ride.

After 10 minutes, she pulled over and just said "WOW....I want this, I don't care that it's not a V4 and I don't like the lack if a full fairing, but the comfort and.....the power and throttle response.....perfect!"

So we went back to the dealer, arranged to have the "optional Yamaha" fairing lowers fitted and bought the bike there and then.

From our perspective, the newer VFR's became more and more "bland" and their riding positions more "sporty" at every iteration, with the VTEC version losing the best of what the V4 "feel" was all about.

Then again, if you want something sportier, but still comfy and capable, I'm sure the VFR 800 delivers, but from a purely personal point of view, Liz would have rather had a FJ 1200 than the VFR 800.......but would rather have a FZ1/Fazer above either of those, every time.

I sort of get the feeling that Honda changed the direction of the VFR to match the comments of motorcycle journalists of the time who were always raving about ever lighter weight, better handling, sportier power delivery etc - and then went in totally the opposite direction a few years later with the VFR 1200 

They never did re-kindle what made the first VF/VFR's so unique/loved.

16 years on, she still loves the FZ1 and has never regretted not getting the VFR 800 - but now she wants me to resto-mod her VF and get it back out on the roads

[FJ_Hooligan]

If you're looking for something very FJ-like but a little more modern then you need to seriously consider a first generation FZ1.

Yeah, it's still got carbs but the ergos are very comfortable, the motor is 4th gen FJ smooth and the power is fantastic.

Like you, I still have my original '85 FJ and will never get rid of it.  That said, I now own 3 first gen FZ1s.

[Firehawk068]

Having ridden a VFR800, and ridden with a few different people who own them, I would say this...................
If you are used-to the power and acceleration of the FJ, you would be severely disappointed in the performance of the 800. It is no comparison.
However, if you mainly want it for riding twisty canyon roads all day, or just commuting around-town, it would be a fun bike for that...............And that Sound!
I do love that V4-growl..........The way the exhaust is on those, it makes the engine sound way bigger than it is. It's addicting........
If you can pick one up fairly cheap, I would say get it...............just don't expect it to perform like the FJ.......It won't 

[ribbert]

Lately I have been curious about some newer machines, I will never sell my FJ......

Like you, I will never sell my FJ. There are several reasons why - I like riding it and it owes me $20k, I'd be lucky to sell it for a quarter of that.

2 years ago I was looking around for stablemate for it, something that would do exactly what the FJ does but better. Everyone uses their bike differently but for me it's all about the riding and wanting something that is truly a "Sports Touring" bike.
I wanted something that could be ridden a 1000km's in a day but do it on the twistiest, most mountainous route possible. Any bike will do this but I wanted one that would excel in both those areas. My FJ, modified to this end, does it extremely well. I rode everything that was a likely contender and found much to enjoy but nothing I would have parked the FJ on the side of the road and walked away from it for. That was the acid test, would I "swap" the FJ for any of the bikes I rode, never see it again, the answer was no. Sure there were better bikes (all of them!) but the FJ is a toy and as such it doesn't have to tick the most boxes, it just has to be the most fun for me.

Modern bikes are truly amazing though. Below is a snippet from the new BMW S1000RR - 207HP off the showroom floor.

https://youtu.be/1sxgAvpDhFY?t=67


Noel

[gumby302ho]

Lately I have been curious about some newer machines, I will never sell my FJ......

Like you, I will never sell my FJ. There are several reasons why - I like riding it and it owes me $20k, I'd be lucky to sell it for a quarter of that.

2 years ago I was looking around for stablemate for it, something that would do exactly what the FJ does but better. Everyone uses their bike differently but for me it's all about the riding and wanting something that is truly a "Sports Touring" bike.
I wanted something that could be ridden a 1000km's in a day but do it on the twistiest, most mountainous route possible. Any bike will do this but I wanted one that would excel in both those areas. My FJ, modified to this end, does it extremely well. I rode everything that was a likely contender and found much to enjoy but nothing I would have parked the FJ on the side of the road and walked away from it for. That was the acid test, would I "swap" the FJ for any of the bikes I rode, never see it again, the answer was no. Sure there were better bikes (all of them!) but the FJ is a toy and as such it doesn't have to tick the most boxes, it just has to be the most fun for me.

Modern bikes are truly amazing though. Below is a snippet from the new BMW S1000RR - 207HP off the showroom floor.

https://youtu.be/1sxgAvpDhFY?t=67


Noel

  I checked the link Noel and I cant believe they have stuffed that much tec into a motorcycle, what really through me was the Engine Braking Adjustment, I wonder how they are controlling that, they being the modern sharp engineers! I would love to ring its neck for a day and be okay when it rode off, imagine the monthly bill on one of those. I know about the HP4 and its crazy tec suspension and insane power but not all this extra detail fine ajustment. There was a clip on Youtube that I came across a while back with a bunch of big modern guns going up against the HP4 in this top speed highway pull and these lads were trying to justify there machines but the HP4 pulled them all very easily when it hit forest gump mode, very cool video.

[Firehawk068]

what really through me was the Engine Braking Adjustment, I wonder how they are controlling that, they being the modern sharp engineers!

Since the bike is "Throttle by Wire", it is accomplished with throttle-plate position and fueling.
Cut all the fuel, and close the throttle plates all the way and you will have maximum engine braking.
Dial in just a little throttle position and add just a bit of fuel on engine decel and it will give you less engine braking.

This is one of the talking points on the Super Tenere forums.............(this 1200cc-twin gives you a ton of engine braking)
Although this cannot be adjusted by rider controls, people have dialed some of it out with an ECU re-flash.

[Millietant]

I must be getting really old (and sorry for the smart-arse comments...........) !!!!.....but.....

My Aprilia RSV Mille has Engine Braking Adjustment - when I don't want it to stop almost instantly (or kick in the slipper-clutch) due to engine braking, I just don't snap the throttle all the way off, I dial in just a little throttle and add just a little bit of fuel on the decel.........using my throttle hand. I suppose that's what we older riders would call "manual engine braking adjustment"

All of our other bikes also have "manual engine acceleration adjustment" too  - these are looking more and more like skills that future generations of riders won't have, or need.

Who needs an ECU reflash and modern sharp engineers when you have all the control mechanisms you need in that huge computer inside your crash helmet 

[ribbert]

This is one of the talking points on the Super Tenere forums.............(this 1200cc-twin gives you a ton of engine braking)

When I first rode a BMW twin with the servo operated exhaust flap, I found myself needing to accelerate again just to reach the corner!

Noel

[ryanschoebel]

I  I suppose that's what we older riders would call "manual engine braking adjustment"

That was my thought haha. Why not just reduce braking by adding throttle, or pulling the clutch just a hair??

[Pat Conlon]

Engine braking on our FJ's: If you want to try something that's easily reversible, disconnect the vacuum advance on the FJ and see if you notice (or enjoy) the additional engine braking at closed throttle.

The FJ vacuum advance activates the advance curve when the vacuum spikes at the moment the throttle plates close. This ignition advance is done to flash off any unburned hydrocarbons in the combustion chamber. (It's also why your plugs are white) A side effect is when this ignition advance is activated, it acts to speed up the engine and negates compression braking.

Try riding your FJ without the advance and see if you like it. (don't forget to plug the vacuum port)

With the advance disconnected, I find little use on my back brake with the closed throttle compression braking on my 1380cc engine with 10.5:1 compression.

[Millietant]

I  I suppose that's what we older riders would call "manual engine braking adjustment"

That was my thought haha. Why not just reduce braking by adding throttle, or pulling the clutch just a hair??

Be careful......we two are going get tagged as dinosaurs, or technology deny-ers.

[Firehawk068]

I must be getting really old (and sorry for the smart-arse comments...........) !!!!.....but.....

My Aprilia RSV Mille has Engine Braking Adjustment - when I don't want it to stop almost instantly (or kick in the slipper-clutch) due to engine braking, I just don't snap the throttle all the way off, I dial in just a little throttle and add just a little bit of fuel on the decel.........using my throttle hand. I suppose that's what we older riders would call "manual engine braking adjustment"

All of our other bikes also have "manual engine acceleration adjustment" too  - these are looking more and more like skills that future generations of riders won't have, or need.

Who needs an ECU reflash and modern sharp engineers when you have all the control mechanisms you need in that huge computer inside your crash helmet 

I would agree with you here..........................as I am getting up there into Dinosaur territory.
The Analog controls are what I have always grown-up with, and am used to.
This Super Tenere is the first machine (car or bike) with "Drive by Wire" throttle that I have ever owned. (although my wife owned a Chrysler Town-and-Country Van that had it)
This technology is great for programming in things like Traction-Control, or Wheelie-Control.....................and in this instance, tailoring the amount of Engine-Braking to the rider's preference.....
I don't necessarily think the addition of this technology is a bad thing, however there are times I find myself thinking "I don't want the computer telling me how much throttle I can have."
You start to lose that ability with Throttle-by-Wire..

[Old Rider]

I dont like all the new electronics by wire stuff.On my car i have an electronic steeringcolumn its a steer by wire and doesent give the good old feeling with the road.And what if it one day shorts?
Do i loose all control of the steering?