Starting the wheel swap

[great white]

Just starting to fit the R62 (17x5.5) rear:



Tire is junk, but it holds air and will do for mock up purposes.

Next is to machine the carrier and work out the spacers.

Then it's on to fitting the fzr750 R42 front (17x3.5).

All the modifications I'm doing to my 89 are pretty "generic". IOW: nothing new on the FI scene. I'm just looking to update it a little, without changing it's "80's superbike" vibe to much or it's handling any more radically than a set of modern radials and a good modern shock.

It's my weekend "plinker" to bring my mind back to the high school years, so just a good "refresh" is all that's  required here.

[Millietant]

There seem to be a lot of teeth on that rear sprocket

Presumably that's just what came with the wheel and. It'll e swapped out ?

[Pat Conlon]

Did you check to see if you get a 38-42 tooth sprocket for that rim?

[great white]

There seem to be a lot of teeth on that rear sprocket

Presumably that's just what came with the wheel and. It'll e swapped out ?

Yup.

Thats the FZR1000 sprocket. It's already been swapped out for a new FJ stocker.

[great white]

So, I have read as many fzr1000 rear wheel swaps as I could find. But they just don't seem to be going the way I would.

For example: many talk about taking 5mm off one side of the brake caliper bracket and 2mm off the other. The problem I have with that is the 2mm is off the side where the bearing spacer is. That distance is a very specific dimension as it dictates where the brake disc rides in the brake caliper. The FJ is already biased towards the disc running close to the outer half of the caliper and shaving another 2mm off would push the rotor even closer. So I left that side of the bracket alone amd milled off the side that faces the swingarm. I also had to take off waaaaay more than 7mm to center the rear tire in the chassis.

But that 17-incher looks very nice sitting in there.

Tomorrow, time to machine the sprocket carrier to fit. I'm a little back and forth about what to shave though. Most go through the PITB of shaving down the internal components. I can juuust force the rim into the swingarm with the carrier on and the sprocket alignment is actually pretty good.  But there is a "lip" on the outer part of the hub that contacts the swingarm and makes it tight. I may machine that edge down, since it does nothing structural anyways. Then see where I'm sitting and go from there...

[Pat Conlon]

Make sure the rear tire is locked in place and staying centered with your front tire when you take your measurements.

In the past folks have been more concerned with rotor or chain alignment, only to find out after all the work is done that the center line of the front and rear tires are now off set.

[great white]

Make sure the rear tire is locked in place and staying centered with your front tire when you take your measurements.

In the past folks have been more concerned with rotor or chain alignment, only to find out after all the work is done that the center line of the front and rear tires are now off set.

No worries. I built a laser line rig a long time ago for just these types of projects.

Does wheel alignment, centerline and chain alignment at the same time.  Basically, its a clamp assembly you put on the rear wheel, adjust the lasers to true and then it's just a simple matter of keeping things lined up with the laser targets on the front wheel. Centerline is a laser line that goes through steering stem center and swingarm center. Just keep the wheels in line with the laser line and you're good to go.  

Used to build a lot of bikes, street and race. Made sense to make the laser rig a long time ago and it's never "steered me wrong" yet.

[Pat Conlon]

..."Never Steered me wrong"......

Perfect!  That bike is in good hands.

[great white]

Well, still working on the FZR1000 17" rear wheel swap.

On thing for certain; this is not a couple spacers and a "bolt in" deal. Lots of machining required on the sprocket carrier and wheel hub on one side, the brake caliper carrier on the other.

I suppose you could do it with a sander and files or something similar, but that would be an awful long slog and easy to mess it up. I would go crazy working at that level of "imprecision" too.

My lathe is only a 10" swing, so while I've been able to get the carrier on it, I've had to make a few special "accommodations" to get it on there. It wouldn't fit in the chuck properly (4 jaw or 3 jaw), or at least to where I felt comfortable enough to actually machine it. So I ended up installing the lathe drive plate (used with drive dogs), pressing out the wheel bearings, making a 1/4" plate to fit the shoulder where the bearing would sit and then through bolting it all together using the rear axle through the lathe hollow hub shaft.  Getting it true was an ordeal of dial gauges, tapping, tightening and repeating that process several times until solid. But once that was done, it machined textbook easy.

The wheel hub is a different story. No way in heck that is fitting on a 10" swing lathe. So I had to resort to hand working it. A 120grit flap wheel on the angle grinder, then scribe lines on the hub using a surface plate and precision scribes where the material needed to be removed. Then carefully go at it with the grinder. Nerve wracking (to say the least) me as I'm used to working to 0.001 tolerances. But got it done.

Still fitting things up and I'll likely have more machining to do. While I did read the previous posts and web page on where others have removed "X" mm here and "X" mm there, I'm more of a "sneak up on it" kind of guy. Production tolerances often mean what worked on one machine may not necessarily work on the next one, so I'd rather take my time and work up to final fit when using parts that will be ruined if you go too far too fast.

I'll get there, just in my own sweet time.

[great white]

..."Never Steered me wrong"......

Perfect!  That bike is in good hands.

Here's a few pics of my laser rig in use while I was building a shaft driven rear Zx750r rear wheel for my VMax powered Yamaha Venture if you'd like to see it:





That's a 180 tire and yes, it was a hell of a time getting it to fit. Had to cut and offset the driveshaft tunnel, among other things. The bike actually isn't running that config right now, it's running stock rims on fresh tires for now. I still have to weld the shaft cush drive hub to the ZXr wheel and brace the chopped up Venture swingarm. I need to get a bit more AL welding experience under my belt before I will trust myself to make that weld. I also need to make a pretty precise and rigid jig to do the welding or my runouts will just got to complete shite and everything just becomes scrap metal. I'll get it done, it's just a matter of when I feel comfortable enough to finish it.

But the laser rig makes getting centerline and wheel alignment a snap. Clamp it down to front and rear wheels, fire it up and just true up the measurements on the front wheel targets. Only real setup is to true the rear lasers so they make even lines close to the emitters and on the walls out front. Usually about 10-15 feet out in front of the bike. That makes the laser on the targets more than precise enough for wheel alignment.

My chain/sprocket alignment tool is of similar construction, except it's just a laser that clamps on the rear sprocket and throws a line forward. I just didn't need to use it that time because the Venture/VMax is shaft drive.

I've also got a laser jig that I use when the frame is stripped down to basics that goes above the bike and casts a laser line through centerline of the bike in order to get things properly centered or at least symmetrical.

What a lot of people don't know is a bike can actually run without the wheel centerlines "inline". A 4 wheel vehicle will have an obvious "dog track", but a 2 wheeled vehicle not so much. It's a trick some VMax builders use to get a larger wheel in the back;they offset the rear wheel. The bike handles just fine like that, straight-lining on the street that is.  The only handling "quirk" is that the bike usually turns to one side easier than the other. Obviously, the offset makes it "fall in" to one side and resist leaning into the other.....

[FJ_Hooligan]

So you have a VMAX motor in a Venture chassis?

Is the driveshaft VMAX or Venture?  I remember reading in the early development of the VMAX motor one of the first things they had to do was use a larger driveshaft.  The VMAX would snap the Venture shaft in half.

[great white]

So you have a VMAX motor in a Venture chassis?

Yup:



It's Vmax from the head gaskets to the airbox cover, which (except for forged rods and some oiling changes) is the meat of the changes from Venture to Vmax engine specs. Depending on what reference you read, the VMax has a 0.5 jump in compression, and slightly popped up pistons to match. But the 83 engine has the same comp ratio as the Vmax (again, depending on what specs you believe) and flat tops (better for flame propagation). Since my rotating assembly had such low mileage, I called it a wash and left the lower end alone, other than some oiling modifications (better cooling and lubrication).

If I ever have to rebuild the bottom end, I'll probably find a 1300 block and punch that out as large as it will go. You can go pretty big if you get the right guys working on it.

I ditched the original ignitor box and installed and Ignitech controller that is programmable for ignition curves and programmable for VBoost control. It started as a cherry 28,000 km 83 and there's lots done to it, but that's for another discussion on another forum.

Is the driveshaft VMAX or Venture?  I remember reading in the early development of the VMAX motor one of the first things they had to do was use a larger driveshaft.  The VMAX would snap the Venture shaft in half.

Yup, but I use the xvz1300 shaft because I've swapped to a V Max rear differential (lower gearing). The early Ventures had a different shaft and differential than the VMax. The 86+ 1300's are interchangeable with the VMax shaft (so are differentials). Different part numbers, but I would suspect they are the same.  I also switched out the transmission to a 2002 Royal star transmission. The newer transmission gives me a couple "pluses":

1. Does away with the second gear issue lots of early Ventures suffered from (bad tempering on the shaft retaining washer). When i took mine apart, it was well on it's way to causing the second gear problem, even with only 28K on it.
2. Does away with the bent sheet metal shift selector pin retainer as the Royal Star shift selector uses a solid machined retainer
3. with the VMax diff, 1-3 are a scootch lower geared, 4 is about the same and 5th is a deep overdrive.
4. I also gave the dogs a slight "undercut" since I had it all apart to swap transmissions.

It's piles of fun, for a full dressed touring bike. Both around town and on "the slab". Leaves black snakes at will and (if that skinny rear happens to actually find enough grip) lofts the front tire on throttle alone, highway cruises in 4th or 5th all day long. Gets around 35-40 mpg if you're disciplined enough with the throttle, but that's pretty much what it got stock anyways. Low to mid 20's if you dip into the power and hit the Vboost zone as much as you really want to....

I've shocked the heck out of more than one kid on a racer replica. It leaves super hard and goes into fast forward with alarming authority. When you drop the hammer, you better be "straight up" and pointed where you want to go because it's going to kick the tire out and get where you're pointed faster than you think....

[great white]

Good progress today:







Lots of clearance on the sides of the tire and thats a 170, as big as I will go on this bike.

Still to do:

Cut the hub bearing to wheel bearing spacer
Cut the cush drive rubbers
Cut and reweld the brake caliper bracket stay mount on the swingarm.

The chain is close, but it runs to the outside of the sprocket in that pic. Nothing horrible, it's just a little off center. Theres still room to offset the sprocket carrier to the lh side a mm or two, which will put it dead center. That will be the job of the hub spacers on either side to postion the rear sprocket correctly.

The inner spacer I'll chuck up in the lathe and cut down because I have several lying around. It's also long enough that I can get a good grip on it with the 4 jaw.

I'll make a new outer on the lathe rather than trying to chuck up that tiny chunk and turn it down. This way, I can chuck up a 6" piece of round and just  part off the length I want after turning it to size and bore.

What my actual measurements are from what I cut down where I coukdn't tell ya. I just started machining parts to get the proper alignment. When I got things postioned properly, I stopped. It was a lot of back and forth to get it right so I would shave, fit, shave, fit, etc. I didn't machine to a measurement, I machined to a fit.

Couldn't resist mocking it up again to see what it will look like:





Dang, that's sexy! Looks "period correct" for an 89 as well. I'm starting to lean towards junking the fz1 swingarm and just adding a lower brace on the oem arm.....maybe even just leaving the swingarm stock. My "hardcore" riding days are all behind me now, so most of this is just for the fun of building it and playing with it on weekends on long, winding backcountry roads...

[Pat Conlon]

You will be happy, very happy with that 170 back tire. The 17" size will open up a whole catalog of tire selections that are now open to you.

I noticed it looks like you have a lot of weight on your back rim for tire balancing. I seems like a lot to me.
Unlike the old bias ply tires, these new modern radial tires are almost perfectly balanced from the factory so I suspect your inbalance comes from the rim itself and/or cush hub.
Thought about having it spin balanced?

[Tuned forks]

So from what I've read about the FZR to FJ wheel swap, material has to be removed from the wheel itself.  How did you accomplish that?  You have a lathe with over 9" from headstock to bedway?  This is a swap I'd like to accomplish this off season but it's tough finding a machinist to perform the work.

Joe