Sorry California

[Pat Conlon]

"Interesting you bring up the cop pulling the gun on the rider. What we didn't get to see was whatever happened prior to the cop pulling up on the rider. We have no idea, and we should allow the full story to influence our reactions. Also of note, is the fact that the officer DID NOT empty the magazine, in spite of his obvious elevated stress level. This is due to his discipline....."

Discipline huh? Horseshit.  This cop has issues and this incident is not his first:
http://www.thestranger.com/news/2017/09/06/25410518/the-detective-who-pulled-a-gun-on-a-motorcyclist-had-a-history-of-road-rage-complaints

Discipline my ass....this guy needs help.

[ZOA NOM]

Interesting you bring up the cop pulling the gun on the rider. What we didn't get to see was whatever happened prior to the cop pulling up on the rider. We have no idea, and we should allow the full story to influence our reactions. Also of note, is the fact that the officer DID NOT empty the magazine, in spite of his obvious elevated stress level. This is due to his discipline, but more importantly, due to the RIDER's reaction. He remained calm and non-threatening to the officer. This is NOT the case in so many of the situations that have been used to justify these "protests". In almost EVERY case, the "suspect" refused to follow orders, became combative, and reacted in a way that placed the officer in conflict. Now, you can wander the extremes of the arguments to justify your position, but real people, with real concerns on both sides know better. The extremes are NOT the norm, and we need to quit acting like they are.

We don't get to see what transpired before the stop of this motorcyclist but in my opinion this officer totally overreacted to the situation and escalated this stop. Pulling his gun was not justified for a traffic infraction. If the officer had fired it would have also endangered everyone in the cars surrounding this rider. When I am stopped for speeding I don't expect to be looking at the barrel of a gun. A well deserved ticket would be appropriate. This shows an excessive use of force and this is the point of this video. This is also the point of most of the protests. With the advent of cell phones and body cams the excessive use of force by law enforcement is becoming more visible. I am happy to see more police departments using body cams and more citizens recording the police. Cameras don't lie. I am not anti police. Before my uncle retired he was Chief of Detectives for a major US city and in his 28 year career never fired his weapon. Currently one of my children is a law enforcement officer in Texas. I hope she never has to use hers.

Dave 

I agree that there are too many examples of excessive force, but they are BY FAR the exception. That is a fact.

So, what is your opinion re: the rider's reaction and it's effect on the situation? Do you see that the suspect also has some responsibility to de-escalate the situation? Do you believe, as I think many of the "protesters" do, that because of the few examples of excessive force, they now have license to be combative, refuse to respond to officers, and to immediately become belligerent, which makes it far more likely that force will be used to control them?

[ZOA NOM]

"Interesting you bring up the cop pulling the gun on the rider. What we didn't get to see was whatever happened prior to the cop pulling up on the rider. We have no idea, and we should allow the full story to influence our reactions. Also of note, is the fact that the officer DID NOT empty the magazine, in spite of his obvious elevated stress level. This is due to his discipline....."

Discipline huh? Horseshit.  This cop has issues and this incident is not his first:
http://www.thestranger.com/news/2017/09/06/25410518/the-detective-who-pulled-a-gun-on-a-motorcyclist-had-a-history-of-road-rage-complaints

Discipline my ass....this guy needs help.

Fair enough, Pat. What prevented him from emptying the magazine?

[FJ_Hooligan]

Fair enough, Pat. What prevented him from emptying the magazine?

I'm not Pat, but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express once.

The knowledge that he would be arrested and tried for murder probably had something to do with it?

[ZOA NOM]

I usually don't stick my nose into these discussions......

If an NFL wants to bring attention to the issue on national tv during game time, then after a touchdown or big play, instead of thumping their chest and dancing about "look at me I'm the greatest" — maybe that's when they should take a knee instead.  

I fully support their right to protest. My beef is with the NFL. They should really consider their audience and their fan base. The players are paid to play a sport for our entertainment. Can you imagine your employer allowing you to stage a protest while you're on the clock? It's ridiculous. Don't get me started on WHY they're protesting.

[ZOA NOM]

Fair enough, Pat. What prevented him from emptying the magazine?

I'm not Pat, but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express once.

The knowledge that he would be arrested and tried for murder probably had something to do with it?

I would suggest it was the attitude of the rider. He de-escalated and followed the officer's commands.

[Pat Conlon]

Fair enough, Pat. What prevented him from emptying the magazine?

My point is, this cop was jacked up, emotionally unstable, hence his decision on the need to pull his weapon.

With his gun pulled, identifing himself to the biker by saying "How ya doing?" is good discipline?
...and you think he showed "good discipline" by not emptying his magazine? Holy fuck.

He needs help before kills someone.

[ZOA NOM]

Fair enough, Pat. What prevented him from emptying the magazine?

My point is, this cop was jacked up, emotionally unstable, hence his decision on the need to pull his weapon.

With his gun pulled, identifing himself to the biker by saying "How ya doing?" is good discipline?
...and you think he showed "good discipline" by not emptying his magazine? Holy fuck.

He needs help before kills someone.

Sure, completely agreed. But this thread is about protests. Should the rider protest police brutality, or did he actively participate in ensuring a non-lethal outcome? NFL players taking a knee in protest are deliberately ignoring the other side of the equation, because it requires responsibility on the part of a suspect to act in a way that is respectful of authority, and not to place themselves and the officers in an escalating situation.

Have you ever been drawn down on by police, Pat? I have. Trust me, I actively participated in de-escalation of the situation to prevent a lethal outcome. Too many of these "protesters" think they can just ignore the commands of the officer and get combative with impunity. (It was a case of fitting a description - I was released with an apology)

PS, I never said it was good discipline. I said he showed discipline by NOT shooting him. Whatever you may think of his actions, he certainly could have been worse, as we have seen.

[Pat Conlon]

Have you ever been drawn down on by police, Pat? I have. Trust me, I actively participated in de-escalation of the situation to prevent a lethal outcome. Too many of these "protesters" think they can just ignore the commands of the officer and get combative with impunity. (It was a case of fitting a description - I was released with an apology)

Yep, the same thing happened to me. I was pulled over driving a car which matched the description of a recent armed robbery.

Thank God for my dad, he saved my life. He taught me to roll down all the windows, turn on the cabin light and keep my hands on the top of the steering wheel and wait for instructions.

The cops were stressed but at the same time very professional. I know that does not make sense. They too apologized but I said there is no need.

God bless our police officers. What a shit job they have, dealing with the dregs of our society. No help from the courts with the current catch and release program here in Calif. The same scumbags over and over, laughing at the arresting officers knowing that they will be back out on the streets the next day.
Dealing with the victims. Dealing with the heartache. Dealing with the accumulated chronic stress from years on the job wondering, is this the traffic stop that gets me killed? It's gotta wear on them, day after day, year after year.

I can't judge what would cause an officer to use deadly force when unwarranted, that's up to a jury.

I have no problems with NFL players taking a knee. It's freedom of expression. I just want to enjoy the game.

For American football fans the real elephant in the room is not taking a knee. I fear the NFL runs the real possibility of dis-banding in the near future with the CTE issue. Previously CTE could only be diagnosed post mortem, however now CTE can be diagnosed in active players.
  https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/26/16372088/boston-university-cte-test-for-the-living-football-impact

This is really gonna upset my Fantasy Football team.

[FJ1100mjk]

[Pat Conlon]

Kinda like a campfire, eh Marty?

One thing about the Trumpster....he sure is entertaining.

[FJ1100mjk]

Kinda like a campfire, eh Marty?

One thing about the Trumpster....he sure is entertaining.

Yes Pat, and I understand too after being here for years.

I wrote many months ago before he was actually elected, that if elected, there would an entertainment factor associated with him in office. He is not disappointing us at all. I (like many) wonder what he is really going to do with the North Korea thing. He talks the talk. Will he do the token cruise missile thing, like was done on others in the past? If so, will they be tipped with the real deal? If so, then Tillerson's comment about Trump kind of plays itself out. A lot of ifs. Stay tuned for the entertainment.