Braking & Turns & Such

[Mike Ramos]

Re: Braking Into Turns

Some time ago there was a discussion about Braking upon approaching and entering a turn.  
As with other subjects, a variety of opinions were expressed; and as with other subjects, some of those opinions were inconsequential to the actual discussion.
     
Of those pertinent to the discussion, some stated that all Braking should take place PRIOR to commencing the turn itself.    
Perhaps in the theoretical world of oils, hard tires & such that would be acceptable, however in the real world of unknowns, such as entering a turn too fast or dreaded decreasing radius turns, the automobile that does not see the motorcyclist, the debris on the road surface encountered unexpectedly, the animal that appears seemingly from out of nowhere et al; such comments are as inconsequential as the various unsubstantiated assertions.

Encounter any of the above scenarios (and a myriad of others!) and the compromises such as those made with the tire upon which you do not plan to exceed its' capabilities are negated by circumstances unexpectedly forced upon you; there is no allowance for not expecting the unexpected.

As with counter steering practice, braking drills & judicious application of throttle when riding in the rain or sand strewn surfaces, etcetera – correct application of both front and rear brakes while entering turns under CONTROLLED circumstances is important.  When unexpectedly, that touch of additional measure of braking is needed, there is at least a chance that the motorcyclist remains in control.

To that extent, brake indicator lights were installed in several different locations.  The blue light is the front & the red light is for the rear.  

The first part of the video is of modest speeds, the next part is of more open sweepers & then along the rim of a canyon.  It closes with less modest speeds over an exceptionally rough road meandering through a forested area.
The original footage was lost to the ether during editing – this version is less incisive & concise however I trust it shows the principle involved.

Please note:  No suggestions are given nor any advice proffered and certainly no dogma involved, just noting an option.

Ride safe,

Midget.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX0OKbLyxZw

[Firehawk068]

Very interesting Mike.
I always wondered what it would look like if I could somehow track things like: Braking, throttle, steering input, etc...... overlayed with a series of corners, not that I would study it, or change my riding technique (unless I could discern that I was doing something wrong)
Just info to satisfy my curiosity is all I would want it for.

[ZOA NOM]

Very interesting stuff, Mike. Braking is such a varied subject, and subject to all the variability expected from individual riders' characteristics and capabilities, etc. I found that video review of braking data through the use of telltale lights used as feedback, is an invaluable tool in making you a better rider/driver. I use the same methods in my race car to establish far more accurate braking performance data than the often inaccurate "seat of the pants" memory method. What I have found is that those who are best under braking (defined as maintaining control and retaining speed) are usually fastest, regardless of the performance capability (reasonably) of the vehicle.

My use of your method of data feedback is used more for lap times and achieving faster cornering speeds, but there is an obvious correlation to safety. On the bike on a highway, I've noticed that I tend to brake early, and accelerate through a corner, and I feel more in control in a turn when I'm on throttle, rather than brake.

[ZOA NOM]

And then there's this...   

https://youtu.be/tpI2S3GQ-gA

[Mike Ramos]

Very interesting stuff, Mike. Braking is such a varied subject, and subject to all the variability expected from individual riders' characteristics and capabilities, etc. I found that video review of braking data through the use of telltale lights used as feedback, is an invaluable tool in making you a better rider/driver. I use the same methods in my race car to establish far more accurate braking performance data than the often inaccurate "seat of the pants" memory method. What I have found is that those who are best under braking (defined as maintaining control and retaining speed) are usually fastest, regardless of the performance capability (reasonably) of the vehicle.

My use of your method of data feedback is used more for lap times and achieving faster cornering speeds, but there is an obvious correlation to safety. On the bike on a highway, I've noticed that I tend to brake early, and accelerate through a corner, and I feel more in control in a turn when I'm on throttle, rather than brake.

Hello Rick,

You are concise with your statements & eloquent in the explanation.

Your observation that braking early into a turn at a particular speed that allows for accelerating through the corner (& accelerating hard as the rider exits a corner) lends itself to better control is, in fact, a built in margin of error.

As with that other margin of error, the unworn outer edges of tires, they are there if needed unexpectedly. 

Following along at the WCR (and other occasions) it was evident that the most spirited riders follow this simple precaution.

Ride safe.

Midget.