Anti-Seize. Is it supposed to dry out? Or does it always remain slippery?

[FJ_Hooligan]

Randy,
I added ths post to avoid further cluttering up the broken alternator bolt thread. 

This appears to be another polarizing topic with well thought out reasoning on both sides.  Bill's explanation of a combination of overtightening and heat make a compelling argument for thread failure.  However, I've installed a lot of spark plugs over the years and that's the only one that ever stripped or pulled threads.  I never use a torque wrench to install plugs.  I know the feeling of the crush washer compressing on a new plug.  Lightly seated then three 1/4 turns of the wrench have always worked for me.  If the plug is used, then ~1/4 turn past slightly seated.  And, I always use the same wrench.

And, I like to think I know my way around a wrench.  I've been using them since I was old enough to pick one up.  I grew up in an environment where we were always working on cars, trucks, motorcycles, lawnmowers, etc.  In my teens, we were That House that all the neighbors hated.  Every weekend cars would start lining the street.  Friends coming over to install headers, intake manifolds, swap carbs, install transmission shift kits (don't ever do that), and of course tune ups.   I split the case on my first motorcycle engine (100cc Hodaka) at age 12 and rebuilt my first small block Chevy at age 15. 

I've drained enough oil to fill a small lake and installed more spark plugs than I care to count.  I never used a torque wrench since most times you barely had enough room to get the plug started by hand and no room for a large torque wrench.  Number of stripped drain plugs = ZERO.  Number of stripped spark plugs = ONE, my '85 FJ being to only plug I ever stripped.  My oil drain bolt still has the factory washer on it. 

In fact, the last time I stripped out threads it was done while using a torque wrench.  I was reassembling a set of late model FJ dual piston calipers and using the torque wrench to torque the halves to spec.  The wrench never clicked and the bolt suddenly became quite easy to turn.  It was an easy Heli-Coil fix, but the feeling of threads stripping is kind of like taking a punch to the stomach, it's a queasy ugly feeling, especially if you don't have a set of dies/taps or the correct Heil-Coil kit.  Prior to that caliper the last thing I stripped was the stock oil filter "drain" bolt.  And who hasn't done that? :-)

I also don't abuse my motor

I will continue to use Anti-Seize but not on spark plugs.  I just don't trust it in that application anymore, even with Time-Serts installed.

It's nice that we can have these discussions and it doesn't get personal.  On the BMW list someone will post that his bike pulls to the right or has a high speed wobble.  Others will post that the guy is nuts because their bike doesn't do those things.  I find to odd that someone would challenge another's actual experience simply because they have not had it happen to them.  "Your bike can't be wobbling because mine is steady as a rock."  An opinion offered without bothering to suggest realignment of rear wheel, checking steering head bearings, fork alignment, etc.  Just a flat out implication that "You're just wrong."

I love my S1000XR, but I'm beginning to doubt that I'm really cut out for the true BMW ownership experience and attitude.

DavidR.

[ribbert]

On the subject of does it dry out.........





This is my bottle of anti seize. I bought this bottle for home use way back when and can trace it to an event 40 years ago, so I've had it at least that long. I can't even remember when it last had the cap on the applicator lid so it has been open to the air for many years.


I don't use it much these days but in light of the recent discussion here I opened it last night and dipped it.





No mixing, this is just how it came out.

Make what you want of it but they are the facts.

Hooli, you have obviously changed a lot of plugs in your day, why would you change your habits (or for that matter blame the AS) with only one failure out of thousands? One exception does not make a new rule nor prove a theory.

Why waste a good washer? Like you, I have never changed the washer on the sump plug. It's still good after about 30 oil changes I will change it when I see a drip.

Having said my bit on the subject of AS, I have no intention of adding further to it, but with only a few isolated cases of what may or may not have been related to the use of AS, I have not read anything here that would give me cause to re think nearly half a century of automotive experience. Then there's Bill's near half century and the other mechanics on the forum..........


While the subject is interesting, it is not important and everyone will go on doing exactly what they were doing before with not a single mind changed. Business as usual. 


















Noel

[PaulG]

I love my S1000XR, but I'm beginning to doubt that I'm really cut out for the true BMW ownership experience and attitude.

DavidR.

Enjoy the experience.  The attitude comes when you start hanging out with knobs without a single bug on their gear. Easy to stay away from.  I've owned a '78 R80/7 and a '97 R1100GS. Enjoyed them both, but in hindsight preferred the R80.

It's unfortunate that a good product can get a reputation from a clique that treat the world as their ashtray. Is that too harsh a generalization? 

Sorry hijack over.

[FJ_Hooligan]

On the subject of does it dry out.........

Hooli, you have obviously changed a lot of plugs in your day, why would you change your habits (or for that matter blame the AS) with only one failure out of thousands? One exception does not make a new rule nor prove a theory.

Why waste a good washer? Like you, I have never changed the washer on the sump plug. It's still good after about 30 oil changes I will change it when I see a drip.

Noel

Noel,
My bottle of a/s is still very "wet" but it does separate as Randy mentioned.  I have to stir it up before use, but it's plenty useable from the bottle.  My observation is that it dries up over time once outside of the bottle.  I've experienced dry out on brake caliper bolts and various frame bolts that I've used it on.

As far as changing my ways on spark plugs, at the time it seemed like a good idea to use it to protect the spark plug threads.  From my experience (and evidently my and Randy's experience only) that proved to be a mistake.  In addition to the problems on my '85, the plugs I pulled out of my '93 were also difficult.  Fortunately no threads were pulled or stripped on the '93 and I was able to clean all residue off of the head and plugs.  I blame the a/s because it's the ONLY variable that was different in all the other spark plug changes I've done.  After discontinuing use, I've had no other issues.  Perhaps I'm overlooking something?  Phase of the moon, rotational direction of the universe, the fact that I changed to synthetic oil? ...... wait a minute ..... can I combine an anti-seize thread with an oil thread?  :-)

Bottomline, from my experience, I'll never use it again on spark plugs.  I no longer trust it in that application.  I even researched and found a thread compound specifically for spark plugs; Thread-Life High Temperature Spark Plug Anti-Seize Compound.  I can't bring myself to use it either.

[ribbert]

Noel,

..... Perhaps I'm overlooking something?  Phase of the moon, rotational direction of the universe, the fact that I changed to synthetic oil? ......

Hooli, you have found the problem, I was loathe to bring it up but synthetic oil is clearly the culprit.   

Seriously, you have at least applied your own criteria and first hand experience and made your own determination on the cause, whether that is the same as mine or not, matters not.

I can't argue with that.

Noel