Bike buying from a dealer....tips please?

[FjLee]

Bike buying from a dealer.....tips please?

I'm thinking of buying another Japanese bike.  A year 2016 model.  It's been a  REAL long time since I have bought a bike from a dealer........therefore a REAL long time since I've  been in a position of negotiating price.

Here's  the scenario:
I've figured out the exact year 2016 Japanese  bike that  I want.  At 2 different dealers I've found a total of 3  examples of the specific bike that I want.  Each of these bikes is  "on the sales floor", ready for a buyer. One of the bikes is NEW, one is an extremely low mile Demo, and one is  VERY slightly used.

Dealer F has the used bike.  Dealer R has the Demo and the NEW bike.

I've talked to both dealers, and I have secured an out-the-door  "starting price" for each of the 3 bikes.

Meaning that the OTD price they gave me is the starting price of negotiating the "final"  OTD price.  They are fine with that.

  I also have the applicable warranty info for each bike.

Both dealers know that I am looking at 3 different bikes.  Neither dealer knows  the "starting price"  that I was quoted by the opposing dealer.

The difference in  "starting price"  between the NEW bike and the used bike is several thousand dollars.  The Demo is  priced in-between.

I'm now receptive to advice/tips on how to play one dealer against the other to get the best buy for the least dollar.   I guess it's called "best bang for the buck."  If the price is right, I'd be very happy with any 1 of the 3.  Comments........input........tips.........secrets.........?

I'm curious if a dealer has the most "price wiggle-room" on a NEW bike, or on a used bike??

Yes, I've talked this over with my 1984 FJ1100.........no probs there..............

Lee Carkenord           FJLee       1984  FJ1100          Denver,CO

[yamaha fj rider]

Hello Lee,

Not that much markup in a new bike, $1,500 average. There may be a kick back from the manufacture on last years model. My advise, get on the phone, call dealers in another states. Get your best price and go from there, if they are unwilling to discuss price just call the next on the list. Do not forget to check EBAY. An out the door price close to MSRP, current, new, probably about as good as it gets. Hope this helps.

Kurt 

[red]

Bike buying from a dealer.....tips please?  . . .  Yes, I've talked this over with my 1984 FJ1100.........no probs there..............
Lee

Lee,

There are many bargaining strategies and techniques (which most Americans do not know).  Google can help with that.  One strategy I like is called "the bear in the closet."  You have to handle the bear in the closet, but the seller has no chance to talk to the bear.  "My wife would shoot me if I spent that much money on a toy."  ( . . . and no, I'm not married, really.)     Remember, the final incentive to the seller, always,  is seeing your back, walking out the door.  You have to act like that can happen at any time, to get the best deal possible.

When you can't carve the deal any finer, then whittle:  "I need new (gloves, boots, helmet, clothing, accessories, or whatever).  Can you help me out as part of the deal there?"  Remember the dealer may have only paid half of the retail price for stuff like that, so they can often give you a ton of extras without hurting themselves too badly.  Be a likeable guy, and good things can happen.

Happy hunting.

[CutterBill]

Here's my strategy... Don't sweat the small stuff.

Life is too short to worry about saving a couple hundred bucks. Like Kurt said, an out-the-door price close to the MSRP is about as good as you're going to get. Just pick out the bike you want, get the dealer's best price, offer him a couple hundred under that.  If he goes for it, write him a check. If he counters with a higher price, write him a check.  Either way, it's all about the ride.  Buy the damn bike, get on it and ride.

Go make memories because, in the end, it's all you've got.
Bill

[ribbert]

My first bit of advice dealing with vehicle salesman is, Everything after "Good morning" is a lie! 

The broad formula for dealerships is the new vehicles bring them in the door, the second hand ones pay the overheads and workshop makes the profit.
As previously mentioned, margin on new bikes (and cars) is slim and is an apples for apples comparison between dealers, they all buy at the same price (almost)

Most dealers finance their floor stock on a plan tailored for the auto industry. This requires them to pay a small percentage of the value of the bike every month and then, if it has sat long enough, have to pay it out entirely. Faced with the prospect of stumping up the money to pay it out they would rather get rid of it at cost, even if they replace with an identical bike, and start the "floor plan" over again on the new bike. This is where a good deal can be had on maybe an unpopular colour, but as has already been said, margins are slim. Without a trade in, not a lot to negotiate.

The advantage to this is, you can take the price from the dealer that wants to dump the bike quickly to the dealer you prefer that has the one you want and use it as bargaining power.

You are looking at a #1 demo, #2 a barely used bike and #3 a new bike.

#1 The demo:  Unless you are buying a make and model that only old farts buy, everyone else only wants to know one thing when they test ride a bike - how hard does it go! It has likely been thrashed and thrashed cold (can't waste demo ride time warming it up) They are what the mechanic runs errands on, gets his lunch on and have a terrible cold start to mileage ratio and are deprived of a proper run in procedure. Multiple short, cold start hard rides around town is the usual break in routine.

#2 The barely used bike I am always suspicious of a near to new current model bike with little mileage on it as a "used bike" I would need a very good explanation (not the salesmans yarn) as to how it ended up in their showroom. The most common source of these of I have seen over the years is insurance "write off's" that can be profitably rebuilt, particularly if you're a dealer. Not to say it can't be legitimate, but the odds are against it.

#3 The new bike: Given you are looking at all 2016 bikes, being new or near new, I would buy the new one. I know it's a couple of grand more and money's hard to come by, but nothing beats that riding it out of the crate feeling. You will know from the very beginning that it's yours. You can sleep easy knowing it has no past or just what that past might have been. I would not want to own the last new bike I test rode!


My second bit of advice that I have been handing out for decades is this: What you ending up paying as a purchase price for the bike is only part of it. People tend to overlook service. I can recall giving guys a price on a bike only to have them go half a state away to beat it by $200. They would then turn up for a service ( being the nearest dealer) expecting red carpet treatment. These are not the people we gave a loaner to for the day to minimize their inconvenience, or order 4 helmets we wouldn't usually stock for them to try on or stay back after closing time so they could pick up something they needed or go above and beyond for in any respect, other than fulfilling our dealer obligations. If they want that, they can fuck off back to the dealer 3 hours away they bought it from - to save $200!

There is a saying, "Long after the price is forgotten, the quality still remains" Most folks probably forget what they paid for a new vehicle after a while but what they will remember forever is the fantastic service they got from the dealer afterwards.

In my opinion (and what I do) running between dealers, trying to cut a deal to the bone to the last few dollars is a waste of time. Go with your gut feeling. If the price is reasonable, you like the guy, they're local, and you've left them a bit of meat in it, they will look after you. I cannot stress strongly enough the importance of establishing a relationship with you local dealer. The few hundred extra you might end up paying to buy through him will be returned ten or even twenty fold in good service.

Since starting writing this I have just read "Cutter Bills" post and he has nailed it, albeit more concisely.

Noel (ex dealer)

[Flynt]

My first bit of advice dealing with vehicle salesman is, Everything after "Good morning" is a lie! 

The broad formula for dealerships is the new vehicles bring them in the door, the second hand ones pay the overheads and workshop makes the profit.
As previously mentioned, margin on new bikes (and cars) is slim and is an apples for apples comparison between dealers, they all buy at the same price (almost)

Most dealers finance their floor stock on a plan tailored for the auto industry. This requires them to pay a small percentage of the value of the bike every month and then, if it has sat long enough, have to pay it out entirely. Faced with the prospect of stumping up the money to pay it out they would rather get rid of it at cost, even if they replace with an identical bike, and start the "floor plan" over again on the new bike. This is where a good deal can be had on maybe an unpopular colour, but as has already been said, margins are slim. Without a trade in, not a lot to negotiate.

The advantage to this is, you can take the price from the dealer that wants to dump the bike quickly to the dealer you prefer that has the one you want and use it as bargaining power.

You are looking at a #1 demo, #2 a barely used bike and #3 a new bike.

#1 The demo:  Unless you are buying a make and model that only old farts buy, everyone else only wants to know one thing when they test ride a bike - how hard does it go! It has likely been thrashed and thrashed cold (can't waste demo ride time warming it up) They are what the mechanic runs errands on, gets his lunch on and have a terrible cold start to mileage ratio and are deprived of a proper run in procedure. Multiple short, cold start hard rides around town is the usual break in routine.

#2 The barely used bike I am always suspicious of a near to new current model bike with little mileage on it as a "used bike" I would need a very good explanation (not the salesmans yarn) as to how it ended up in their showroom. The most common source of these of I have seen over the years is insurance "write off's" that can be profitably rebuilt, particularly if you're a dealer. Not to say it can't be legitimate, but the odds are against it.

#3 The new bike: Given you are looking at all 2016 bikes, being new or near new, I would buy the new one. I know it's a couple of grand more and money's hard to come by, but nothing beats that riding it out of the crate feeling. You will know from the very beginning that it's yours. You can sleep easy knowing it has no past or just what that past might have been. I would not want to own the last new bike I test rode!


My second bit of advice that I have been handing out for decades is this: What you ending up paying as a purchase price for the bike is only part of it. People tend to overlook service. I can recall giving guys a price on a bike only to have them go half a state away to beat it by $200. They would then turn up for a service ( being the nearest dealer) expecting red carpet treatment. These are not the people we gave a loaner to for the day to minimize their inconvenience, or order 4 helmets we wouldn't usually stock for them to try on or stay back after closing time so they could pick up something they needed or go above and beyond for in any respect, other than fulfilling our dealer obligations. If they want that, they can fuck off back to the dealer 3 hours away they bought it from - to save $200!

There is a saying, "Long after the price is forgotten, the quality still remains" Most folks probably forget what they paid for a new vehicle after a while but what they will remember forever is the fantastic service they got from the dealer afterwards.

In my opinion (and what I do) running between dealers, trying to cut a deal to the bone to the last few dollars is a waste of time. Go with your gut feeling. If the price is reasonable, you like the guy, they're local, and you've left them a bit of meat in it, they will look after you. I cannot stress strongly enough the importance of establishing a relationship with you local dealer. The few hundred extra you might end up paying to buy through him will be returned ten or even twenty fold in good service.

Since starting writing this I have just read "Cutter Bills" post and he has nailed it, albeit more concisely.

Noel (ex dealer)

I have bought a few new toys and learned some things that haven't been mentioned, but generally agree with Bill and Noel...  saving a few bucks is part of a bigger equation involving your patience, your bank account, the importance of the relationship with the local dealer, etc.  You really have to feel your way through this.

The thing I can add on buying the new bike is to be aware of timing...  Dealers allocations of new bikes and even the price they pay are based on their volume of new bike sales.  Larger dealerships will also measure their sales staff individual performance monthly.  And, as Noel mentioned, after several months of carrying the inventory on lease the dealer will need to buy the bike and start the warranty...  essentially becomes a used bike at that point (they have taken title).  This decreases the value and put the dealer in a bad negotiating position (they might have to throw in a warranty extension on top of selling closer to a used bike price).  Awareness of the various deadlines...  end of month, end of quarter, end of model year, how long the bike has been on the sales floor, etc...  can give you leverage, but it is short lived.  You can get your best deal on a new bike at just that moment. 

I've also bought very low mile used bikes with a good backstory.  The 2015 K13S I bought recently at Hardly of Folsom was sold as a trade from a HD dude who thought he'd try a sport bike but went back to HD.  The alarm bells sounded ("dude wrecked it" per Noel), so I did a little research and the BMW dealer he bought from verified the story.  I also took the time to go to my local dealer with the VIN and look through all the service performed through BMW, making sure they gave me the thumbs up on the bike.  I talked with the owner about the price vs the identical 2016 K13S on their sales floor...  the owner himself helped me decide to go for the used one since he didn't want to deal hard on his last new one.  Involving my local dealer worked well and the owner said he'd go buy the bike if I didn't.  I took it in the next week and bought the factory luggage (high profit stuff for them) to thank Chris for his help.  This is obviously much harder than buying new, but for me it dropped the price by nearly 40% over new.

Never bought a demo, although I have seen "demo" bikes with almost no miles.  As I understand it, the dealers can sell a demo after a certain mileage OR once the new model year demos are available.  Again, I have no personal experience here.  I have seen pretty big discounts (20%) on last year's demos however...  might be worth waiting.

The other thing I'd say is some have a taste for this game (I'm one of them) and others don't.  If you don't enjoy the hunt, buy something and do what you like to do (riding presumably).

Frank

[Pat Conlon]

Good stuff guys It's obvious you fella's have been around the block

Lee....What bike are you considering and why?

[PaulG]

All valid points and some great tips from everyone.    One short statement really stood out for me though,

People tend to overlook service.

For the most part, almost all the new bikes will require exclusive dealer servicing. Outside of changing your oil or brake pads or maybe wheel bearings or plugs, there's not much you can do.  Just like cars it's mostly plug in diagnostics...  like the evil Ducati keyless ignition that would fail 200 miles from home.  Even then the service life on these is much longer than on our FJs.  There's a good chance you will probably have to do nothing but basic maintence for years on it.  If the price difference ends up being inconsequential relatively speaking, do some background checking on customer experiences with service.

I usually don't give a lot of credence to online testimonials on company websites. (Except for RPM's  ) Find out if there's an online forum for this bike, or a local motorcycle rider's forum where you can inquire about dealer satisfaction.  Like ribbert said, the dealer who is willing to go that extra mile for you is worth the extra money.

I have built up enough of a relationship with my local Yamaha dealer now, that they consider me a regular in their parts department. I have been critical of their service in the past (carb "work"), but their parts department has been very good to me.  They have given me free valve shims, told me not to buy an OEM part due to cost and made alternate suggestions.  This is only based on probably $100 - $200/yr that I would spend there.  It might not seem such a big deal on either of our parts, but it does build up a level of trust between us.  I know they won't dick me around on price or product, and they know I will be a repeat customer, and hopefully a new buyer.

Good luck.   

[Mike Ramos]

Here is my experience with a very successful BMW/Ducati dealership.

At a motorcycle show several years ago, I signed up for a test ride on the BMW K1300S.  About six months later I was contacted & so I rode the several hours to the dealership.  The salesman, Joe, who had originally contacted me and whom I followed while I was on the BMW test ride was low key, courteous and thorough.

Following the test ride I was quoted a price for a NEW K1300.  Several reasons (unrelated to the motorcycle) came together and led me to take the decision to not purchase the BMW.

Several weeks later, I stopped by the dealership with a bottle of Baily's Irish Cream for Joe out of appreciation for his above board treatment.  He happened to have the day off so another salesman came up and I told him to please give the bottle Joe. 

Well, this salesman was relentless & pushy and since the BMW I had ridden now had 3,000+ miles, it could not be sold as new.  Thus he could give me a super deal and steep discount.  So, I thought okay, let's see what the "steep discount" would be on an essentially used (and a demo no less) motorcycle.... after much ado with his adding machine and other melodramatics, yep you guessed it the price he quoted was the same as a NEW K1300 - and one that was in a better color to boot!

Midget 

[4everFJ]

I always keep it very simple if I am buying something where I don't want to pay the asking price.

I figure out how much I want to pay and start by telling that to the seller. If he doesn't accept that, I just walk away. Saves a lot of haggling time...

You would be surprised how many times the seller has turned down the offer, watched me leaving the shop and then run after me and accepting my offer 

[FJ1200W]

Buy from the dealer you like at whatever price you are comfortable with.

What do you do for a living?

Someone else could probably do it cheaper, but why does the company/whatever have you on board?

Because you're worth it - and so is a good dealer.

My nickles worth.....

And that being said, if they're all "bad", well, you gotta do what you gotta do.

[FJ Flyer]

Wait....what?  Lee......is buying a....NEW....motorcycle?   

[rlucas]

Wait....what?  Lee......is buying a....NEW....motorcycle?   

That was my reaction, too. Now if he'd just tell us what it is...something ADVish, perhaps? 

[Pat Conlon]

Whatever it is, I bet it has to have some range....'bout 300 miles between tanks.

[ddlewis]

Wait....what?  Lee......is buying a....NEW....motorcycle?    

That was my reaction, too. Now if he'd just tell us what it is...something ADVish, perhaps?  

never bought a new bike so I'm not the one to ask.. but can't wait to find out what Lee's second new bike in 35 years is.  I think Yamaha is a slam dunk, and I'm betting triple.  FJ09 or XSR.