FJ1100 valve lifter hold-down tool

[tjs555]

I'm trying to set the valves on my '84 FJ1100.  I bought and tried to use the tool that holds the lifters down in order to remove the shims, but when I rotate the cam lob out of the way the lifter comes back up.  What am I doing wrong?  Is the placement of the hold-down tool that fussy that I have to position it just so, or am I merely and idiot?

[Pat Conlon]

Assuming that the tool is not damaged or bent from misuse, yes, it is a fussy tool.
Don't get discouraged.

Here are 3 tips Randy gave me I'll pass along.

1) When the cam lobe is pointed up, the bucket is relaxed, rotate the bucket so the little slot is at the 6 o'clock position (the cam being 12 o'clock) That way when you do get the tool to hold down the bucket, the slot will be accessible to use your small pick to lift the shim out of the bucket. The shim will be sticky. The oil suction will want to hold the shim on the bucket. Once you break that suction, your magnet can remove the shim. You need a small screw driver or pick to lift up the corner of that shim to break the suction, your magnet won't do it, therefore the slot has to be accessible.

2) When you rotate the cam lobe down and depress the bucket, set your tool in and fasten down the Allen bolt take a small hammer and tippy tap the tool so that the edge of the tool grabs the lip of the bucket. No hard taps, just 2 tippy taps then rotate the cam up. Also, sometimes the tool rotates away from the bucket when you tighten down the Allen bolt. Take a screw driver and use it as a lever to hold the tool against the bucket when you tighten things down.

3) If (when) the tool slips, rather than rotating the cam lobe back up and starting over, I noticed that Randy takes a large flat blade screw driver and puts the flat blade against the face of the cam lobe and the shim, and twists the screw driver to slightly depress the bucket. Never does he pry with the screw driver, just a twist to very slightly depress the bucket. That gives him just enough room to reposition the tool without having to dick with the cams.
I have never tried this. It is just something I noticed Randy do...
Randy can do all the valves in about 15 minutes. He is amazing to watch.

The hardest part of this exercise is doing it the first time. Stay with it. It gets easier as you learn the feel.

Cheers.

[tjs555]

Pat,
That did it!  A little tap with a wrench evidently makes the difference.
Got the shim out without difficulty.  Thanks for the tip.
Tom

[Pat Conlon]

Good deal Tom, when you get a chance, post an introduction so we can get acquainted.

Cheers

[fjbiker84]

I have an 84 also and a shim adjustment tool came with the bike - but couldn't make it work either.  Ended up taking it to the local Yamaha dealer.  This must be a technique learned back in the day that is a dying art.  The dealership had to call an old retired mechanic in to do the job.  None of the current mechanics knew how to do it either. 

[4everFJ]

I have an 84 also and a shim adjustment tool came with the bike - but couldn't make it work either.  Ended up taking it to the local Yamaha dealer.  This must be a technique learned back in the day that is a dying art.  The dealership had to call an old retired mechanic in to do the job.  None of the current mechanics knew how to do it either. 

I would find another dealer/mechanic..... This is not rocket science and any trained mechanic should be able to do it...

[fjbiker84]

I'm going to print out these instructions and do it myself next time.  Wish I had thought to ask the question in this forum several years ago when this issue came up.

[JMR]

I have an 84 also and a shim adjustment tool came with the bike - but couldn't make it work either.  Ended up taking it to the local Yamaha dealer.  This must be a technique learned back in the day that is a dying art.  The dealership had to call an old retired mechanic in to do the job.  None of the current mechanics knew how to do it either. 

What?? Can the current mechanics use a vending machine?

[FJmonkey]

I have an 84 also and a shim adjustment tool came with the bike - but couldn't make it work either.  Ended up taking it to the local Yamaha dealer.  This must be a technique learned back in the day that is a dying art.  The dealership had to call an old retired mechanic in to do the job.  None of the current mechanics knew how to do it either. 

What?? Can the current mechanics use a vending machine?

Maybe, but some are not old enough buy beer.

[fj1289]

I have an 84 also and a shim adjustment tool came with the bike - but couldn't make it work either.  Ended up taking it to the local Yamaha dealer.  This must be a technique learned back in the day that is a dying art.  The dealership had to call an old retired mechanic in to do the job.  None of the current mechanics knew how to do it either. 

What?? Can the current mechanics use a vending machine?

They have all probably only worked on shim under bucket setups on the newer bikes.  You have to remove the cams and pull the buckets to change the shims.  Doubt they have ever seen much less used, a bucket holder.   But then again - the procedure is in the Yamaha service manual isn't it?   And you would hope being a professional mechanic would include being able to think through problems and figure things out when needed!

[Troyskie]

As a newbie to doing the shims, Pete (Oldktmdude) showed me how its done. It was very straight forward.

Now I've pulled Yummy right down I've checked out some of the manuals etc & even then it seems pretty straight forward.

In the local workshop, one mechanic knew it without even looking it up. The young mechanic, just out of his apprenticeship, who works almost exclusively on 2 stroke dirt bikes, also knew exactly what was going on with adjusting the shims without checking either the manual or his boss.

I agree with 4everFJ, find another dealer, these roosters might be having a lend, or perhaps think they're just really funny. I've found that either cheeky or funny for them ends up costing me more money (then they think they're clever too).

[ribbert]

 ...... Ended up taking it to the local Yamaha dealer.  This must be a technique learned back in the day that is a dying art.  The dealership had to call an old retired mechanic in to do the job.  None of the current mechanics knew how to do it either. 

This old chestnut pops up on the forum like the sun coming up.

   ..........And you would hope being a professional mechanic would include being able to think through problems and figure things out when needed!

Yes you would.

The young mechanic, just out of his apprenticeship, who works almost exclusively on 2 stroke dirt bikes, also knew exactly what was going on with adjusting the shims without checking either the manual or his boss.

...and there's the answer.

He's trained! He might be young but formal training wires the brain to think differently. He can look at it and figure it out, even if he's never seen it before.

The motorbike industry, more so than the car industry, is populated with untrained "mechanics" These guys learn things by rote. They know the order in which things go back together but not necessarily why or what they do, which is why when confronted by something they are unfamiliar with, they don't understand it, can't figure it out and lack the skills and experience to tackle it.

The learning curve for these guys flatlines early on.

You could give a good mechanic with a sound understanding of PO's and some experience an engine he's never seen before, from lawn mowers to Ferrari's to airplane engines, and he could perform any task on it.

We get new members here from time to time saying they are professional auto mechanics but know little or nothing about motor bikes - bullshit! If they are real mechanics they know about anything with an internal combustion motor because the PO is exactly the same in all of them. A really good mechanic will get excited at the prospect of ripping into something he has never seen before, the more complicated the better.

Mechanics is a terrible trade and many leave it relatively young for easier work, better pay and better prospects, all of which can be had in just about any other job. So, the workforce is generally young and lacking experience.

Attitude is also a problem with many of them. The boredom of doing the same jobs (mostly servicing) on the same machines day in day out doesn't challenge them and they lose interest and pride in their work. They're not actually fixing or creating anything. Many of them are disillusioned, having gone into the business because of a love of cars and bikes and thinking nothing could be better than working on them all day only to discover the reality didn't match the dream.

The reason they call in "the old retired mechanic" is not necessarily because he used to work on this particular bike or even anything like it, but because he has experience these guys will never get in a lifetime and worked in an era that required skills, ingenuity and thought processes they will never learn, his brain is wired differently.

Rant over.

Noel

[simi_ed]

Good rant.  I didn't have any disagreement with your statements.  My Dad was a mechanic as you described.  i actually fixed problems, didn't just throw parts at a problem.  And he was not afraid to tear into ANYTHING.  He disassembled his Suzuki GS1100 w/o a service manual, finally asking me for a few torque specs and runout spec on a (twisted) crankshaft.
I miss him and mechanics like him!

[The General]

The young mechanic, just out of his apprenticeship, who works almost exclusively on 2 stroke dirt bikes, also knew exactly what was going on with adjusting the shims without checking either the manual or his boss.

...and there's the answer.

He's trained! He might be young but formal training wires the brain to think differently. He can look at it and figure it out, even if he's never seen it before.

The motorbike industry, more so than the car industry, is populated with untrained "mechanics" These guys learn things by rote. They know the order in which things go back together but not necessarily why or what they do, which is why when confronted by something they are unfamiliar with, they don't understand it, can't figure it out and lack the skills and experience to tackle it.

The learning curve for these guys flatlines early on.
Noel

pfff!....that`s not a Rant!....

mmmmm.....I think that formal training is stage 2 of the process. The wiring is done much younger imho.

The dad`s that recognise this fact, produce thinkers that mostly (these days) go on to tertiary education, where academics digitise their brain to cope with accelerated learning, ensuring boys end up with their Pedagogys in a knot!....but a bigger paycheck outside the auto mechanic industry. (Caveat - girls are better at everything and should get equal pay...yadda yadda yudda!)

I got a mate that works for an apprenticeship training company. He visits apprentices on site (motorbike and car workshops) and assess`s their competencies and ticks off their formal trade progress. Over a beer he tell`s me those that can`t read or write (and there`s surprisingly a lot) are usually the best with their hands!...but with so much computerised technology required in their course these days (he`s old school) it`s hard to get them through to qualifying...."but you know what`s the scarey part", he says as he leans passed his beer, ensuring only my ears are within range, "If I don`t get them to qualify", here he turns his head both ways before proceeding,and whispers, "I don`t get paid!"

I have rented out my spare rooms to students that attend a local University. Their studies include Journalism, Nursing, teaching, accounting and Commerce. (on a "first in best dressed" basis they get to choose any new applicants covertly, after the landlord approval). I get lots of applicants when a room is advertised on the internet and they even get a vote on preferred applicant. Surprisingly they gave a young tradesman the thumbs up recently. They are all around the same age (only 1 is younger than him) and of mixed gender, but boy is he wired differently! (in a good way).....Interestingly he`s an auto electrician that has also worked as a mechanic and also does car airconditioning. He`s moved up from Hobart but doesn`t want an extended lease as he is willing to move to wherever he can get work as an auto electrician with a preference for big Trucks....but guess what, his present job is as a labourer putting together shower screens and a bit of aluminium work. He has been successful at getting a permanent job with local auto dealers (not much heavy industry on the Sunshine coast), but the offered pay is ridiculous compared to his process work. (I can tell he is a great mechanic from the favour he did on one of the student`s auto air con and the fact he recently left a government contract as a mechanic out west....guess what his dad did for a living!)....These kids all have demonstrable commitment to their endeavours, but, while very different socially, they do enjoy the "Verandah of knowledge" table on the weekend evenings!.....heeehehe, they have no idea wifey can hear absolutely everything!

Had a beer with another mate the other day. (He`s in his fifties and still races short circuit and speedway). He is a wiz with lathes and stuff and offered to churn me out some stainless steel pistons for my blue spot calipers. (Randy is out of stock till mid june).
When I mentioned I was playing with the mechanism from an old lifting armchair (for the elderly) to fit in the sidecar, he physically started salivating at the mouth...that curiosity, that different mechanical challenge, literally turned him on!....Guess what his dad did for a living!

How can we churn out guys like him in the next generation?.....Comes back to Dads and a lot of luck me thinks....meanwhile I`ll continue with my weekly purchase of band aids!...and a few beers!   

[TexasDave]

I agree with Noel but Simi Ed and the General have nailed it with Dads. My Dad has a college degree in Economics and is not a mechanic. That said his interest in cars from a young age led to his maintaining the family car and working in a garage through high school and college. Before college he served as an aircraft mechanic in the military. I grew up helping him maintain the family cars and learned a lot from him. He was a mechanic because it fascinated him and from necessity. He could not afford to pay someone else to do it for him. I am not a mechanic but do my own work on all my vehicles. Except when the (new to me) FJ was at Randy's shop. I tried to stay out of his way and still learn something. Times have changed however and there are fewer Dads to pass on mechanical knowledge to their offspring.   Dave