Long distance touring - knee position

[The General]

This topic could involve any subject from underwear choice to wildlife deterrents or even handy tools or equipment.

A recent quote from Arnie has reminded me of a visit I made to an Osteopath.
(I am very confused about the differences between Physiotherapists, Chiropractors and Osteopaths. Given all three professions require separate University qualifications without official subject commonality. .....But I suspect it`s the last letters in their title that explains best!.....I personally found Osteopaths were the way to go.

I've tried putting Highway pegs on my '91 in a couple of locations and found them horribly uncomfortable.
With engine protection bars, to mount them on, it might be better.
My problem was that I felt like a 1/2 opened jackknife, bent at the waist.

Getting 1" drop pegs and re-upholstering the seat worked much better for me.

I`ve only seen an Osteo twice. That`s cause each time he fixed me up permanently.

So back to the subject, My Osteopath man tells me to walk a straight line then checks out my knee joints, then puts me in positions I`ve seen contortionists do and Suddenly my sore back is fixed. Surprisingly he tells me the problem is not my back! It`s my Knees!....and also my hips to some extent.

Now I know I`ve copped ridicule from some of you guys due to too much detail in this area, so no X-Rays, but I can tell ya the conversation became interesting when he explained it`s all caused Generally by the office chair!

The timing of my back problems did follow unusually long weeks of office chair sitting, a habit that does change seasonally. He explained that the top muscles between Knee and hip hardly get used compared to how often the bottom ones are thru other actions like walking etc. (Okay he didn`t explain it that simply but I can`t remember all the big words that sounded like Interior and exterior crucifixes and stuff!)....so he gives me some exercises to do on those muscles I hardly use, like lifting my straightened left leg, then right leg before getting outa bed....Actually can probly copy a pic of the program if anyone is interested.

This is where our conversation got even more interesting. I had been to Physiotherapists, Chiropractors etc over many years without really curing my problem, yet this guy nails it so simply! (and cheaply!).....So doubting his explanation I questioned "How come I can jump on my motorbike and ride for hours and hours without a back problem!"

He said "look at your Knee position and compare the angle to your comfy office chair position, I bet it`s the same." He went further to say he cures long distance drivers of cars the same way cause their seating position is very different from their other long term positions, while the truck drivers are closer to their office chair position. You can cure a lot of sore backs by simply getting TV watchers to sit in there office chairs, but eventually those muscles he mentioned have to be strengthened so Hip can tilt in a more common position.

So Arnie, it`d be interesting to measure your normal knee angle when sitting in your office chair compared to the angle since you extended the pegs....do the extended foot pegs bring your knees closer to your most common sitting position? ..... Wether you half open or fully open the jackknife, I`ve noticed my hip to knee angle doesn`t change much due to the seat and foot pegs being a fixed position....more the spine to hip bone angle.
(Iknow, I know...lots of text to explain ergonomics, but that`s what fixed my back considerably)   

[TexasDave]

Lots of good information here from the General. Being of the older persuasion with several knee operations I found riding the FJ very uncomfortable at first. Buying mine without ever sitting on one I was surprised when I tried to get my feet on the foot pegs. I immediately wondered if this bike is for younger riders only. One of my first stops was the RPM shop where bar risers were added and made a big difference. Next engine guards and Randy put highway pegs on them. Another big difference and the 3000mi trip home got more comfortable. After reading Pat's experience installing Buell lowered footpegs I did that also. Thought about a custom seat but stayed with the original so I can adjust my position forward and back to change my position which is a relief when riding long hours. I am debating going to a LSL or similar set up to take some weight off my wrists but this only happens around town. With the speed on the highway the FJ is very comfortable for this old man.  Dave   

[Pat Conlon]

Yep, the lower pegs are a significant improvement over distance. It's amazing what 1.5" lower will do for my knees (and lower back)
I'm 6'3" w/34" inseam so my long legs can relax a bit.

[Arnie]

Doug,

Here are pics of the stock rider position, and my current modified rider position as close as I was able to get with this cycle-ergo tool.

Original Position



My Current Ride Position



Notes:
This Cycle-Ergo.com tool does not show or include changes to fork height in triples, rear wheel change, nor rear ride height changes.
It also shows a "1990" FJ and its possible that the "1991" model that I have is slightly different, though I believe they are the same wrt rider position.

My office chair allows me to sit 'upright' with my feet stretched in front of me and included knee and hip angles of about 110 degs.

What do these various quasi-medico people do and how does what they do vary ?

Arnie

[ribbert]

.......Next engine guards and Randy put highway pegs on them.  Dave   

I accept that you find highway pegs a relief but I can't get my head around how that can be on a bike with a prone riding position. ??

One of the things I like about the BMW is the lower pegs (on a higher bike, no loss of ground clearance) and yes, they sure are comfortable but wouldn't work for me on the FJ.

My usual relief is the pillion pegs, leaning to one side a sticking my opposite leg out or standing on the pegs with knees locked. If I'm past all of that, time to pull over for a fag.

I find the FJ comfortable and it's a long time before I start looking for on-bike relief anyway.

Standing on the pegs is my favourite, even better with a throttle lock.

Noel

[FJmonkey]

The bike in the image is an '86/'87, same colors as Lotsokids (look at the side scoops). But the ergos should be the same as only plastic and paint changed over the years.

[aviationfred]

Pat and Dave make excellent points on the foot pegs. One would not think that 1 inch lower or 1 inch forward would make that much of a difference. I can personally say it does.

Having the adjustable pegs on my '89 positioned down and slightly toward makes a big difference. When I had the black '87 with stock pegs, there was a noticeable change in the knee angle over the riding position of the '89. A couple of photos of an actual riding position. For a reference, I am short at 5'7" and a 30" inseam. The handle bars have the RPM bar risers, a Corbin seat and the lowered pegs. I typically ride with the ball of my foot on the pegs.

[The General]

That`s great info Arnie. I haven`t seen that ergonomic detail before. I tend to lean forward in my office chair with legs tucked under at about 75 deg when typing or concentrating, but closer to 85/90 when reading etc. So generally that supports why the knee angle needs opening up on the FJ (dropped pegs for comfort). Interestingly my XS and DR open my knees more and I can definitely ride further (in fact forever) on both those bikes....but if you`re reasonably fit in that area it`s probly not worth considering, esp if scraping height is compromised.

If I was younger I would ensure my bearings don't end up like most of our steering head bearings due to one position taking most of the load, which means of course that it pays to have at least two bikes and something on the side at an earlier age. (IMHO)

Re those medicos and what they do, the following explains the difference, which is as clear as mud.
http://www.springosteo.com.au/sam-nevins/who-should-i-see-an-osteopath-physiotherapist-or-chiropractor/