Minimum Wages

[Klavdy]

Californias minimum wage is going up to $10an hour next year.
Here's a link, what do you think?

http://www.dir.ca.gov/iwc/minimumwagehistory.htm

Australias  national minimum wage is currently $17.29 per hour or $656.90 per 38 hour week (before tax).

Mammograms are free.

You can still buy guns in Australia.

[Bones]

$10.00 an hour is pretty sad in this day and age, I was earning that probably 20 yrs ago and I wouldn't say my job is a highly paid one. No wonder tips are a big thing in the US.

[scotiafj]

National minimum wage in UK is rising to £7.85 per hour ..wow !!!

[giantkiller]

In both instances you have to take into account the currency differences. But I'm sure it's still low in the US. I remember a million years ago when I started working at my company I got $4.24/hr

[big r]

Minimum wage in BC is 10.50 an hour. When I first started working in a sawmill I was getting 1.96 an hour, I am talking like 35 yrs. ago

[Pat Conlon]

My first job was working at McDonalds for $1.65 per hour. That was in the summer of 1969. I watched Neil Armstrong walk on the moon while flipping burgers.

$1.65 in 1969 is equivalent to $10.70 in today's dollars  http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/  So $10 per hour for minimum wage is about right.

My philosophy on minimum wage is that it is just that a "minimum" wage. An entry point for unskilled workers. It is (and was) never intended as a "living wage".
I can hear the liberal union pundits cry out, "I can't raise my family on $10 per hour minimum wage". No kidding. That's a entry level wage for unskilled workers.
You want to feed your family? Get some skills. Get a job that has a career path. Don't confuse minimum wage with a living wage.

The unrest over the minimum wage vs living wage issue is fed by organized labor, who won't be happy until every worker pays dues and belongs to their union.

....Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.            

[rktmanfj]

$1.65 in 1969 is equivalent to $10.70 in today's dollars  http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/  So $10 per hour for minimum wage is about right.

My philosophy on minimum wage is that it is just that a "minimum" wage. An entry point for unskilled workers. It is (and was) never intended as a "living wage".
I can hear the liberal union pundits cry out, "I can't raise my family on $10 per hour minimum wage". No kidding. That's a entry level wage for unskilled workers.
You want to feed your family? Get some skills. Get a job that has a career path. Don't confuse minimum wage with a living wage.

The unrest over the minimum wage vs living wage issue is fed by organized labor, who won't be happy until every worker pays dues and belongs to their union.

....Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.            

Amen. 

[aviationfred]

I got into the workforce in 1984 as a cook at a Shoney's restaurant. Minimum wage was $3.35 an hour. I also believe that minimum wage is exactly meant as a BEGINNING wage for High School children/unskilled persons entering the workforce. Go to your local WalMart, Target, K-Mart, major grocery store, and any fast food joint. You will see a few high school kids, but the majority of the employees are now in their late 20's all the way up to their 50's. This takes away employment chances for the 15-18 year old high school kid, and creates the dependant situation where a FAMILY is trying to live on $8.00 an hour.

Here is a video that IMO very briefly explains what is wrong with the employment situation in the U.S.

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/3403608976001/former-dirty-jobs-host-mike-rowe-on-employment-education/#sp=show-clips&v=3403608976001

Over the last 15 years, and really ramped up over the last 5 years..... There has been a huge push by the government and liberal elitist, that every child should get a college education. By doing so, the Vocational/Tradesman craft education at the high school level has disappeared. Not every child can afford to go to college, not every child WANTS to go to college. There is a HUGE gap in the age range of a lot of the blue collar trades.

THERE IS A SHORTAGE OF BLUE COLLAR SKILLED TRADESMEN.

A personal example is. I work for a very large aircraft manufacturing company. I have 189 coworkers that have the same job description as I do. 65% of my coworkers are over 55. I am 49 and I can say that there are less than 30 coworkers that are younger than me. We need to get the young people interested in the skilled trades jobs again. Licensed welders, HVAC techs, electricians, plumbers automobile mechanics, Diesel mechanics, locomotive jobs, aircraft A&P mechanics, Aircraft avionics techs, etc., etc. many of these jobs start at $20.00 an hour and once well into your career can get close to a 6 figure a year wage.

Fred

[Pat Conlon]

Fred, I hear you loud and clear. We need a fresh crop of skilled workers (paid a living wage) We need jobs for those workers. The chicken or the egg dilemma comes to mind. What's first, the workers or the jobs? Why train skilled workers if the jobs are not there? Why attempt to capture skilled jobs if the workforce is not there?

I like John Gardner's quote (derived from Plato) " The society which scorns excellence in plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water."

I fear we are becoming a society of white collar workers (college graduates) and unskilled service workers...with nothing in between.

Here's an article on Taiwan which illistrates Fred's point: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/05/07/taiwan-too-many-college-graduates/26945515/

[pdxfj]

I read several articles not too long ago about all of this.  Those older people you see working at minimum wage jobs usually get nice, fat government handouts to make up for the low pay.  In areas where they have raised the minimum wage, those people no longer qualify for those handouts and are freaking out since they have to pay all of their bills now.  These people have cut their working hours way back so they can qualify for the handouts again.

Believe me that I see the issues with a less skilled workforce and the sense of entitlement that is being fed to kids now and days.  The company I work for is mainly heavy manufacturing (steel) and we can't find enough welders.  We are non union and pay welders starting at about $25/hr.  If you are a good skilled welder you can make $35+/hr.  We've had the unions try and organize our shops many times and they always get voted down by a large majority.   

Even our CEO is very vocal about the lack of blue color workers and the sense of entitlement.  Drives him nuts.  Kids are being told that "You're crap if you want to work a blue collar job and if you go to college you are entitled to a $100,000+/yr job".  A lot of those people are finding that's not quite true and I've run into some of them that are very angry about it.

To take up the slack here in the U.S. we have several, large facilities in Mexico.  There we can find lots of people willing to work and they produce products that exceed our quality standards and our standards are very high.  Production costs are cheaper in Mexico, but it's almost a wash given taxes, transportation, and import of the finished products across the boarder.

My first job was at the local Burger King when I was 14 and I was paid $2.65/hr  Had to get a little "creative" on my work permit application so I could start working that young.

[Country Joe]

I got into the workforce in 1984 as a cook at a Shoney's restaurant. Minimum wage was $3.35 an hour. I also believe that minimum wage is exactly meant as a BEGINNING wage for High School children/unskilled persons entering the workforce. Go to your local WalMart, Target, K-Mart, major grocery store, and any fast food joint. You will see a few high school kids, but the majority of the employees are now in their late 20's all the way up to their 50's. This takes away employment chances for the 15-18 year old high school kid, and creates the dependant situation where a FAMILY is trying to live on $8.00 an hour.

Here is a video that IMO very briefly explains what is wrong with the employment situation in the U.S.

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/3403608976001/former-dirty-jobs-host-mike-rowe-on-employment-education/#sp=show-clips&v=3403608976001

Over the last 15 years, and really ramped up over the last 5 years..... There has been a huge push by the government and liberal elitist, that every child should get a college education. By doing so, the Vocational/Tradesman craft education at the high school level has disappeared. Not every child can afford to go to college, not every child WANTS to go to college. There is a HUGE gap in the age range of a lot of the blue collar trades.

THERE IS A SHORTAGE OF BLUE COLLAR SKILLED TRADESMEN.

A personal example is. I work for a very large aircraft manufacturing company. I have 189 coworkers that have the same job description as I do. 65% of my coworkers are over 55. I am 49 and I can say that there are less than 30 coworkers that are younger than me. We need to get the young people interested in the skilled trades jobs again. Licensed welders, HVAC techs, electricians, plumbers automobile mechanics, Diesel mechanics, locomotive jobs, aircraft A&P mechanics, Aircraft avionics techs, etc., etc. many of these jobs start at $20.00 an hour and once well into your career can get close to a 6 figure a year wage.

Fred

I also agree with Pat and Fred and Garth. The idea that one will make minimum wage for the rest of your life is a fallacious ideology perpetrated by politicians that maintain their power by creating and fostering a permanent dependence class. But when your political message is primarily based on envy and hatred of other members of your society, this approach is fairly predictable.

[rktmanfj]

Mike Rowe (of Dirty Jobs fame) has spent a lot of time and effort in recent years trying to reverse the current trend:

http://profoundlydisconnected.com/


"ARE YOU PROFOUNDLY DISCONNECTED®?

* A trillion dollars in student loans.
* Record high unemployment.
* Three million good jobs that no one seems to want.

The mikeroweWORKS Foundation started the Profoundly Disconnected® campaign to challenge the absurd belief that a four-year degree is the only path to success. The Skills Gap is here, and if we don't close it, it'll swallow us all. Which is a long way of saying, we could use your help..."

[movenon]

Just feeds inflation. You make more, I have to make more, the guy at the grocery store tells me shit, I want more so up go's the cost of food, the home owner tells me well now my home is worth more so up go's that and so on.  Every place that has high wages for low skills also has high cost of living. 
Now the poor guy on min wage.  (that's increased) complains that he can't get a fast food hamburger for less than 6.00.  And so it go's.  No free lunch's.

IMO let supply and demand work.  Better to focus on working conditions and treatment of workers. 
George

[FJmonkey]

IMO let supply and demand work.

George, I think Supply and Demand are not just a concept... But a basic truth. The pendulum may need to swing wide before the basic needs are truly understood. I have taken part of both trade work and white collar work, I respect them both. "Atlas Shrugged" is a theme to the same effect. Remove the thinkers and doers and what is left???

[The General]

Just feeds inflation. You make more, I have to make more, the guy at the grocery store tells me shit, I want more so up go's the cost of food, the home owner tells me well now my home is worth more so up go's that and so on.  Every place that has high wages for low skills also has high cost of living. 
Now the poor guy on min wage.  (that's increased) complains that he can't get a fast food hamburger for less than 6.00.  And so it go's.  No free lunch's.

IMO let supply and demand work.  Better to focus on working conditions and treatment of workers. 
George

The challenge for the Supply & Demand philosophy is Free trade and it`s management on a global basis. (Such large pockets of Poverty that would love unskilled work at $10 an hour)
IMHO education is the key and skill is also education.
Our universities here pump out white collar qualifications without any thought for over supply. (School teachers is a great example here....hence the reason why all (Huge demand) full time positions morph into 50 hour weeks min in reality, through the threat of being put off if you don`t!). Our universities are controlled by the supply demand system, but unfortunately there`s no profitability in forcasting the lag timed industry requirements, as there`s little demand by students for hardcore (read hardwork and costly) Maths, Science and engineering for example. Universitys make their money from bums on seats, esp those courses that get a subsidy from the slow to react changing Governments.

Here the schools are finally realising that students are coming out unprepared for the real world. So they have asked for more integration or mentoring from the business or Trade world....but they can`t afford to pay for it, (nor will the Gov sponsor the real cost...after all, their investment period is longer then a term in office), while those volunteering at no charge become frustrated with the lack of discipline and basics.

I recently was subcontracted to a class of 12 students from a private school for a field mathematics class. I was demonstrating the best direction for solar energy when I found all 12 students arguing over which direction was North. When I asked them all to point in the direction they thought was North, one girl (These were 15 year olds) pointed directly up in the sky above us.
Curious as to how students problem solve, (read, Think) I inquired of her reasoning. Her answer....
"When you look at a map of Australia, North is always shown to be pointing to the top!"...she was quite confident in pointing to the top of the sky above us!

No wonder teachers get their pedagogys in a knot!