Clutch parts.

[Jeff0308]

Still nursing the FJ around. Not using it much until now. Just a quick question about clutch parts. Does the clutch basket require replacing when replacing the clutch plates.   Also what's the likelihood of the slave and master cylinder having to be replaced at the same time? 

[Arnie]

Hi Jeff,
Long time no see or read.

It is unusual to have to replace the clutch basket when you replace the plates.
If the fingers of the basket are too chopped up from the tangs on the plates you may want to dress them with a file, but I'd doubt even this would be needed unless you have been doing full throttle speed shifts.
re: the slave and master..... You might want to check the piston and bore condition on them, but its not likely that they would need to be replaced at the same time.
Is there evidence that the slave is leaking?  
IF its not leaking and you have been able to get the clutch to dis-engage its probably OK.
If it is leaking and has not been rebuilt previously, you might want to take this opportunity to re-build it.
The re-build kit is pretty cheap if you buy from RPM.
Basically the same applles to the master, if its working and dis-engaging the clutch, its probably fine.
While each of these items are part of the clutch system, there's no real reason that they'd wear out at the same time.
One item that you probably should replace while you're dealing with the clutch plates is the throwout  bearing.
And, if you need or want a hand, just give me a hoy.

Arnie

[Jeff0308]

Figure this out if you can because it's got me buggered. My wife and I had a day out yesterday on the FJ. Thought I would chance it and see. If I nursed it would it behave?  Anyway we set off. Few minutes into the trip I thought I would stretch the limits and test the clutch out. Top gear and loaded it up, 2up, do you think it slipped?  NO!  All day it performed perfectly so why when riding 1 up it slips?  I'm thinking it's not the clutch at all. 200km round trip and never missed a beat other than ears ringing. The clutch lever has a lot of slack. After I bleed it it loses pressure after time. No oil leaks anywhere but has about 3/4 inch play. Releases from the grip literally. However when bled and has full pressure it releases ( gets traction) when nearly fully released?

[FJmonkey]

Jeff, if you are pulling hard while 2 up then you clutch is still good. What you describe is getting air in the hydraulics. After you bleed it, it feels good again, then is decays and the engagement position changes. Inspect you slave closely, it is the fist to fail in the hydraulics. Once properly bleed it should not change unless you have a leak or until you open the system.

[Jeff0308]

I've bled the clutch about 3 times over the years replacing the fluid regularly. When the lever is bled it's firm. Sat for a couple of months and it's changed slightly. Seems to run fine as is. Will investigate further. It got me buggered as one up it slips. Thought yesterday it would give me hell being 2 up. Said to my wife expect to be towed. Nope not an issue anywhere. Tried to load it from 40kmh in top gear and it pulled like a Trojan. Tried again at 60 and 80kmh. Still nothing. Ran smooth as silk.

[FJmonkey]

It got me buggered as one up it slips. Thought yesterday it would give me hell being 2 up. 

This is puzzling, slips with lighter weight under high load, but not with greater weight under high load. Keep testing, the reported results are not consistent with expected symptoms. Old tires getting better grip with more weight on the rear? Tire slip is not common for our longer wheel base pig heavy FJs. Bent shift forks will be just as bad with any load...

[oldktmdude]

   Maybe you're less committed with the throttle application when you're two-up. I found when my clutch slipped (before fixing it) it was under hard acceleration from 6,000rpm upwards in third and forth gears. During sedate riding it was fine. Take it out and give it a real flogging. Air in the clutch system will not make it  slip.  Pete.

[FJmonkey]

   Maybe you're less committed with the throttle application when you're two-up. I found when my clutch slipped (before fixing it) it was under hard acceleration from 6,000rpm upwards in third and forth gears. During sedate riding it was fine. Take it out and give it a real flogging. Air in the clutch system will not make it  slip.  Pete.

I agree with this possibility, My '89 came with a doubled up clutch spring and under high (Kookaloo) loads I felt something not quite right. I pulled the clutch to swap it out from my '86 (all new clutch parts) and found the '89 had some blue color on 2 of the plates. The double spring was to deal with a worn and slipping clutch. Keep testing.... With the all new clutch parts the '89 pulls hard and runs like the clappers... What ever that means...

[X-Ray]

  Ahhh Monkey, you make me laugh,    

"Goes like the clappers" is another way of putting it too.

[Jeff0308]

When we left yesterday it was about 22 degrees. Bike was warmed up for about 5 minutes prior to setting off. Got on to the freeway ramp about 2 km from home. Down the ramp got into top gear.  Doing 80kmh and then gave it a quick fistful literally just to see the reaction of the clutch. Was quick on the uptake and not one sign of slipping. Was 80 - 120 in seconds. Caught me by surprise as usually 1 up it slips at the same speed with less weight. Slips so much so I have to pull the clutch in and let the revs match up with the clutch. 10km down the track I'm on a main road starting from traffic lights on an uphill. This for sure would have done it. Nope.... Got going up the hill. 70km in top and again a fistful..again, called me a liar. I told my wife before we left to expect a few glitches. Next set of lights she taps me on the shoulder and said," thought it played up". Bastard bike made me look like a jackass. Said to my wife "Give it time". Mongrel machine. Christine in disguise. The whole trip time and time again I tried to get it to act up. Even so much so We came back home up and through Mt Dandenong.nearly 200km round trip and bitch of a bike purred like a kitten.  Next week will be the test. Working in the city.

[Jeff0308]

Forgot to mention. It's got a new front tyre and rear is only about 2000km old. I can't say I mistreat it or really rev hard. Rarely goes past 5 - 6000rpm. However yesterday it did. 3rd gear overtake at 130kmh. Didn't struggle there either with 2up. 

[FJmonkey]

I know what the dreaded 2nd gear gear problem feels like as my '86 has it. I also know what a shitty clutch feels like as the clutch went out on my '86 and could feel it going out on the '89 even with the spring doubled up. I also know what having to bleed the clutch is like to just to ride that day. Keep testing the clutch, just because its fun... Kookalooo!!!!

[PaulG]

Still nursing the FJ around. Not using it much until now.....

I have been told that moisture in the crankcase from condensation could cause this. Depends on how you store it and your climate conditions.

I had a similar condition a few yrs ago when I first got it on the road after winter storage, before I changed the oil.  The next day it disappeared before I changed the oil, probably from the moisture burning off.

Make sense? Possibly, maybe, I dunno.  All I know is it never came back.

[Pat Conlon]

Forgot to mention. It's got a new front tyre and rear is only about 2000km old.

How old is the back tire? As in years? When was it made?
An old dried out back tire will do what you describe. Act fine with 2 up, yet slip with a lighter load (solo)

[Jeff0308]

Rear tyre is 2 yrs old. Front about a year old..  Had anotheR thought!! Engine oil!  The clutch uses the same as the engine. However when I serviced the bike I put MOTUL oil the standard mineral stuff. Apparently the FJ when using SYNTETICS has issues? This info came from 2 bike dealers.  1 being YAMAHA.  Maybe it's a change in oils types/ brands that's upsetting it?   I've had the bike for 3 yrs this month. I've serviced it a few times but I'm not certain what the previous owner used. I don't "thrash" it, have a mad moment occasionally to give it a blast and get the blood flowing. It doesn't explain the lever though.  It doesn't leak.. Still full. How much "free play" should the lever have?  I have had a lot of experience building street cars ( show cars), not a "huge" amount of experience with bikes but the bleeding brakes / clutch isn't rocket science. Still digging around for answers. May just take the cover off to see what the "bits" look like. The bikes just about to clock 85000km in about 200km.  Oil change time again.