Honda fork cartridge mod

[jamesearthdrum]

I knew it was only a matter of time!!
I am looking for information on what all is involved in doing this mod. The archive search engine for the other lists is down at the moment, so I'm hoping anyone (Henry) who may have done this mod can give me the details involved. Please

james

[Marsh White]

No info from me, but I know that Pat Conlon has done it as well.

[the fan]

Everything is up and running over there for me.

I have been working on copying the files, links, and database onto a hard drive, to be sorted and moved over here. I ave been in there since early this morning. I can tell you that there is nothing in the areas listed above on the modyou are looking for.

This however was found with a simple search at 12:30 today...

Re: F3 Cartridge fork mod continued, by Pat Conlon



Hello Bill,

Sorry, I was out of town when you asked this question several weeks ago.
I have Jon Cain's F3 cartridge conversion on both of my FJ's ('84
and '92)Jon fabricated some special "hats" that the F3 cartridges sat
in so they could be used with the FJ lower sliders.
For this conversion, I could not use my oem Yamaha stanchion tubes
because the Honda F3 fork caps would not fit the Yamaha stanchions
(different threads)
The Honda F3 fork caps are necessary to adjust the Honda F3 cartridges.
Therefore, what I've found is that I needed to use the Honda F3
stanchion tubes when doing this conversion.
You're on the right track on using the Race Tech Gold compression and
rebound valves. I recommend them, along with constant rate springs.
Here's some specifics on my set up (200lb rider)

http://tinyurl.com/o8xfj

For the 1996 CBR600 F3 cartridge assembly: (List price)

Race Tech Gold compression valve FMGV S2040...$159.99
Race Tech Gold rebound valve FRGV S02 ....$159.99
Teflon inner bushings FMBI 41201P..$ 24.99
Teflon outer bushings FMBO 41152P..$ 24.99
1.0kg springs FRSP S323410 $109.00

Order thru Zanotti's and get a 15-20% discount off the above.

Here are my set up specs:

Oil level 130mm (5.125in.)
Spring preload 19mm (.750in.)
Spring spacer 3.375in.
Compression bleed #55 drill (.052in.)
Compression stack C38
Rebound stack R20
Rebound needle base setting 1 turn out
Oil 125/150 Golden Spectro cartridge oil

Cartridge forks: WOW! A night and day difference over the FJ oem damper
rod set ups, even with cartridge emulators.

Several years ago, Jeff(your suspension sucks)Hoffman had a quote:
"The worst cartridge fork setup is still better than the best damper
rod setup."

Hope this helps.

Pat Conlon, Palm Desert, Ca.

[/color]

[jamesearthdrum]

Thanks Bill,
          I guess what I am looking for is "Honda cartridge fork conversion 101". The list of parts is very helpful, but I need a "how to" also. I'm hoping that someone who has done this conversion will be willing to share the "how I did it".
          I was trying to search the archives at http://www.fj1200archives.com/ but he is having trouble with the search engine.

[racerman_27410]

Thanks Bill,
          I guess what I am looking for is "Honda cartridge fork conversion 101". The list of parts is very helpful, but I need a "how to" also. I'm hoping that someone who has done this conversion will be willing to share the "how I did it".
          I was trying to search the archives at http://www.fj1200archives.com/ but he is having trouble with the search engine.

James,

the only hard part is coming up with the "special hat" that mates the cartridge to the FJ lower..... assembly is nothing special and very similar to building any fork..... instead of a damper rod with a spring sitting on it there is a cartridge which has the spring installed onto it.

KOokaloo!

Frank

[Pat Conlon]

Thanks Bill,
          I guess what I am looking for is "Honda cartridge fork conversion 101". The list of parts is very helpful, but I need a "how to" also. I'm hoping that someone who has done this conversion will be willing to share the "how I did it".
          I was trying to search the archives at http://www.fj1200archives.com/ but he is having trouble with the search engine.

James,

the only hard part is coming up with the "special hat" that mates the cartridge to the FJ lower..... assembly is nothing special and very similar to building any fork..... instead of a damper rod with a spring sitting on it there is a cartridge which has the spring installed onto it.

KOokaloo!

Frank

Hello James, Frank is correct. First things first. You aint going anywhere without the hats.

So do not worry about the install until you can find Jon Cain (or another expert machinest like Jon) to fabricate the hats. Jon put alot of his time, thought and skill in coming up with this solution.
Sorry I have no pictures of the hats for you. I will take some photos the next time I have disassembled the forks, but I would rather have you contact, or attempt to contact Jon. It's his design after all.

The "How To" instructions to  R/R/R a Honda F3 cartridge fork is straight forward.(Clymers/Hayes, etc.) Everything is the same except the fact that you are using FJ lower sliders instead of the Honda sliders, and that the cartridge assembly sits in a hat.

If Jon Cain is a no go (I hope not) as a alternate, I recall that Traxxion sells a cartridge conversion kit which may work (?) on the FJ damper rod forks. (Beware could be $$$) I would check out the Traxxion web site and if you don't see it listed, call the Traxxion folks... Don't give up. Cartridge forks (of any kind) are the only way to go.

Sorry about the lack of pictures, but I hope this helps..
Pat Conlon, Palm Desert, Ca.

[jamesearthdrum]

Hello Pat,
         I will post a BOL and APB on Jon in a minute. I am in need of some clarification. It seems that you are using the Honda tubes in order to attain the adjustability of the cartridges. Do they effect the top triple and the bar mounts? Did you need to adapt how your bars mount? Also did you go with the Gold valves out of necessity or as an upgrade? I apologize if it seems as if I am missing the obvious, but I'm just trying to wrap my aging brain around how this works.
         A co worker of my SO is a Honda guy and has a couple F-4's. I'm hoping he has a manual lying around, maybe even some parts. I have been offered a set of cartridges, but the tubes are no good, so seems I will need to locate those, and more importantly Jon Cain.

[the fan]

I will see Jon later this week and will ask him if he has ant of the adapters ready (as well as any other parts)

[rvnmaniac]

 Your using the FJ lower tubes and the F3 honda not F4 forks. This set-up does NOT change the top triple clamps or bar mounts at all. The gold valves just make everything MO sweeter.

[jamesearthdrum]

Hi Henry,
              Yes F3. Having looked at the parts fiche for the Honda I can see that the adjusters are on top. I'll be loosing my bar risers, but the trade off is probably worth it. Thanks.

[jamesearthdrum]

Look what I found! http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147565
Man I love the internet. I know this is for the F4i, but at least I have some idea of what I'll be looking at. Can they really be all that different?

[racerman_27410]

Look what I found! http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147565
Man I love the internet. I know this is for the F4i, but at least I have some idea of what I'll be looking at. Can they really be all that different?

James,

all right side up cartridge forks are going to be just like that in regards to taking them apart and putting them back together.

i think the reason for the F3 cartridges is just the diameter of the cartridges.... so they will fit inside the FJ lowers.

Kookaloo!

Frank

[Fred]

Hey James,

If you get a hold of Jon put in a good word for me, I have tried to to contact him a couple times without any luck. I would like to eventually go with the f3 front suspension mod myself.  Its stage 3 or 4 of my ultimate plan of suspension sweetness. I've completed stage one, modded FJ front suspension, now I have a 17" wheel and blue dot calipers, way cool. I have the parts for stage 2, 17" rear wheel. So that leaves the f3 front and the Penske rear shock, just depends how things shake out as to the order of completion.

TIA
Fred

[simi_ed]

OK, here's my words of wisdom, which are worth all that they cost you (anyone): nothing.
If you're trying this with YZF-600 forks, this can go to shit in about 15 seconds.  The Yami parts are all heat treated aluminum, assembled with Loctite®.  To break the  Loctite®, heat is required, which destroys the heat treating!  Do you want to see my three (3!) destroyed damper assy's???

Use minimum heat, minimum Loctite®, apply the Loctite® about 1-2 threads from tight, and don't plan on ever disassembling the damper rods!

Comments?

[the fan]

Can you send me some of the damaged cartridges... I am going to get Jon to make some of those little bastards.....

We already have a tool that lets you clamp the cartridge securely, but its still a nightmare.