FJ is hard to start

jvb_ca · June 03, 2015, 08:31:18 PM

Quote from: Zwartie on May 24, 2015, 08:48:34 PM
I've posted a short video showing the voltage at the battery while I start the bike a number of times. If you listen to it you can hear how it gets progressively harder to turn over, or at least the starter is not turning over as quickly (attempts 1-4) until it won't turn over at all (attempts 5-7). This is after the bike had been running for about 5 minutes so it's a little warmed up, but not too much.

https://youtu.be/EsX-RhAZ8aU

Zwartie

Hey Ben,
High compression motor...cracking the throttle while cranking help any??

Make it spin over faster??
Just a thought....
Jake....

FJmonkey · June 03, 2015, 11:11:47 PM

I crack the throttle open about an 1/8 when the engine is hot. it helps. A better and more long term option is get a 4 brush starter. They crank over quickly hot or cold.

markmartin · June 04, 2015, 03:09:05 PM

I'm not sure if this is even the issue, but recently I was having trouble with charging, battery going flat if I was using a lot of juice, harder starting -- and found the connector between the generator and the regulator to be corroded and melted. I replaced this connector and the charging issue is gone and the bike starts better than it ever has in the last 8 ? years that I've owned it. Seems to pull better from low RPMs also--no hesitation.
The connector I'm talking about is red and located on two wires just below your airbox / left side. There is a recent write up on this issue. It's an easy check and a simple fix if it is the issue.

Mark M

FJmonkey · June 04, 2015, 03:27:42 PM

Do you mean this one?

And the fix

red · June 04, 2015, 03:54:45 PM

Quote from: markmartin on June 04, 2015, 03:09:05 PMI'm not sure if this is even the issue, but recently I was having trouble with charging, battery going flat if I was using a lot of juice, harder starting -- and found the connector between the generator and the regulator to be corroded and melted. I replaced this connector and the charging issue is gone and the bike starts better than it ever has in the last 8 ? years that I've owned it. Seems to pull better from low RPMs also--no hesitation. The connector I'm talking about is red and located on two wires just below your airbox / left side. There is a recent write up on this issue. It's an easy check and a simple fix if it is the issue.
Mark M

This link goes with Mark's electrical repair here: if you need any old motorcycle electrical connectors, we have a few sources.

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=14042.msg141775#msg141775

Cheers,
Red

markmartin · June 04, 2015, 05:54:40 PM

Quote from: FJmonkey on June 04, 2015, 03:27:42 PM
Do you mean this one?

Yup. Looks exactly like mine did.

Zwartie · June 08, 2015, 08:55:45 PM

This evening my good buddy Rob Hersey came over to help me troubleshoot the issue. Before he arrived I took the bike for a little ride to get the engine warmed up so we could do a compression test on the cylinders. Wouldn't you know it, I stalled the bike 2 blocks from home and of course it wouldn't turn over so I had to push it - D'oh! Motorcycles are much easier to ride than they are to push.

Anyway, we started with the compression test and the results were 180, 200, 205 and 205 PSI for cylinders 1 through 4 respectively. I had called Mike Law at Raceworks Canada earlier that day and he predicted the results would be in the 200 PSI range for an FJ1200 with a 1314cc big bore kit. He was pretty much spot-on. By comparison, Rob's '85 FJ1100 cylinders are in the 140 PSI range. Obviously a big-bore engine is going to require more oomph to get going. Mike Law had recommended that I do something like the coil relay mod so that the engine can turn over for at least "One Steamboat" before it tries to fire. We put the plugs back in and tried turning it over without the plug wires connected and still no turnover. Hmmm...

The next thing we did was to connect my other Yuasa battery in parallel (they sent me a replacement under warranty) to see if that would turn it over but no such luck. We thought that would provide enough cranking amps. Rob also connected a Fluke meter to the battery to monitor the voltage and it was dropping to around 10V when the starter was attempting to turn over the engine. We also connected my Mazda CX-9 to boost and it worked the first time when the engine was running, didn't with the engine off and then didn't when we tried again with the CX-9 engine running again. Hmmm...

I told Rob that I had replaced the starter, solenoid and battery just a year ago and showed him the original (4-brush) starter which I still had on hand. For fun we opened it up to inspect it and it actually looked good - brushes in good shape and not too much residue. We decided to remove the "new" starter and reinstall the original one just to see what happens. Well, wouldn't you know it, the bike turned over like it was just off the showroom floor - no hesitation at all and it spun nice and fast! Hmmm...

We decided to open up the "new" starter to see what it looked like. I believe we found our smoking gun. It even smelled like smoke. See photos below.

I believe the starter must have been set to self-destruct mode. Notice the copper bits in the last photo - remnants of a winding. I'm surprised the starter was able to turn over at all! I installed the starter on April 30, 2014 and the FJ had 121,300 km on it at the time. It's now at 133,800 so that means the starter lasted 12,500 km (about 7,800 miles) and just over a year. I guess they don't build 'em like they used to!

So now I am running with a new battery and the original starter. I'll be sure to test hot and cold starts in the next few weeks to see how she does but for the moment it looks promising.

Thanks again to everyone for your advice and support!

Zwartie

markmartin · June 08, 2015, 09:21:20 PM

Ben, Glad you got your issue fixed! Where you get the starter that failed?

Zwartie · June 08, 2015, 09:53:14 PM

Got it from Randy at RPM. Not sure if it would be considered warranty or not. I bought it from RPM because it was the "real thing", not one of the cheap Chinese versions. I'm thinking it may have been defective. Oddly enough I thought the original starter was the problem a year ago but it must have been the battery at that time.

Quote from: markmartin on June 08, 2015, 09:21:20 PM
Ben, Glad you got your issue fixed! Where you get the starter that failed?

Zwartie · June 18, 2015, 10:42:00 PM

Update: I sent the starter back to Randy and he opened it up and pulled the armature out of the casing. He sent me a few photos and yes, she blowed up real good! It was definitely in self-destruct mode. Bottom line: Randy stands by what he sells and offered a full refund for the faulty component, including what it cost me to ship it back to him. Thanks Randy!

Zwartie

FJ_Hooligan · June 18, 2015, 10:45:36 PM

Send me the bill for the shipping costs both ways and I will cover it!

racerrad8 · June 18, 2015, 11:00:54 PM

Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on June 18, 2015, 10:45:36 PM
Send me the bill for the shipping costs both ways and I will cover it!

You want me to send you the shipping bills, both to him & return to me?

Randy - RPM

Zwartie · June 19, 2015, 07:12:49 AM

Hooligan,

You lost me on that one. Please explain.

Thanks,

Zwartie

Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on June 18, 2015, 10:45:36 PM
Send me the bill for the shipping costs both ways and I will cover it!

FJ_Hooligan · June 19, 2015, 12:13:52 PM

As usual, Randy is going way above and beyond in his service.

My offer is to reimburse him for extraneous costs that eat into any profit.

Just my way of trying to help out.

News:

FJ is hard to start