New FJ Owner

[craigo]

there's a saying " if it ain't broke, I ain't through workin' on it"  (well that's my version).

I have to wonder why you (of all people) would want to modify a bike that was in your sweet spot already.

IMHO loop:
Suspension set-up is like tuning up a band. The "A" doesn't have to be 440 cycles but it has to be the same on all of the instruments. i.e it is a matter of harmony and there is no one set of metrics that is right for everybody.  It is a matter of dialing it in to your personal "sweet spot").  Changing one thing changes everything and "different" is not always "better".

It is so subjective and frankly rave reviews for the newest and coolest components are about as trustworthy as an election promise.

The FJ is a solid platform right out of the box. The "bang for the buck" for the vast majority of riders is to simply get everything fresh and with spring rates that work for the way you ride.

Close IMHO.

Most of my money is in the suspension as well. Except for the 17" rear wheel that is.

CraigO

[Mark Olson]

when you say "lost it" I hope you don't mean a crash.

Haha, no, the sweet spot. Although the first ride was a bit scary, it's new reluctance to turn in had me turning in late which had me going wide, that was a little unnerving. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I wished now I taken some measurements.


Noel

Add some air to the front tire and it will turn in Quicker ... try 39 or 40 psi.  I am not trying to be funny , just trying to help.
If you are already at that psi , you will have to raise ride height in the rear or drop the front .
If you just messed around with the rear suspension you already know what you gotta fix. Never too late to start taking measurements now. 

[craigo]

In an ironic twist, I just spent a small fortune on new suspension and lost it.
Noel

Oooh do tell Noel. Did you end up getting an RPM rear? I'd be interested to know, my front is sorted fine thanks to Randy, the rear, it tries to keep up, but........

I felt your pain. When the rear goes, it goes in a big way (not that they were very good out of the box). My rear shock blew up and acted more like a screen door plunger than a 550lbs motorcycle shock. I was amazed at how nice that Penske made her handle again. I'll bet that the RPM shock is better.

CraigO

[Bill_Rockoff]

Yes, tires and their inflation make a HUGE difference.  Even on stock suspension, mine always seemed to do okay with ~40 psi front and rear, and it got "better than just okay" with radials also inflated to close to 40 psi.

I have had two different FJs that were new enough to have the OEM tires (Dunlop A330/K330.)  I can't imagine what else Yamaha tried and rejected that was worse than those, but I couldn't get either bike to turn with those tires.  I used up the first bike's stock tires and then wore out an ME33/ME99 combination, which was a lot better.  I had nearly-new ME33/ME55 on there at 9,000 when it was stolen.

The replacement FJ had only <1,600 miles, so those tires were OEM, and I remembered "Oh yeah, it's a horrible horrible motorcycle with these things; fortunately they'll be gone in 2,500 more miles."  Similarly, I had Dunlop K591 "Sport Elites" on that bike which were terrible, and I once had a dual-compound Bridgestone S-11 that was the worst tire I have ever tried on a motorcycle.  Once radial tires came along, life got a lot better, as long as I keep the pressure up and replace them when they get worn in the middle.

For someone who hasn't ridden in 20 years and just got a clean FJ1200, like the OP, my recommendation is "fill the tires to within a couple PSI of their max sidewall pressure."  If the tires are worn in the middle, replace them.  It will make a huge difference, especially if the replacements are good sport or sport-touring radials.  That way, you will at least have a bike that can be cornered fairly hard fairly consistently.  I found a sweet spot with Metzler radials and with the forks raised 1/2" in the triple clamps to drop the nose a bit and steepen the front geometry.

If you get into changing hardware, there are really good suspension options front and rear, including rear shocks(I have one) and rear wheel swaps (I have one) and front fork damping upgrades (I have one.)  Also, you can replace the front forks and wheel with better forks and a wider wheel from a sportier bike.  (FZ1, CBR600.)  I have found another sweet spot on my FJ with cartridge-emulator valves in the stock FJ forks, and a Penske shock that has height adjustment, and a 17x5 rear wheel.  It's pretty responsive this way, but even the $1,500 worth of suspension parts is worth only maybe 40% of the improvement over stock; the other 60% is mostly from keeping good radial tires on it.  

TL;DR:  Good, new, properly inflated tires will make the biggest difference in how an FJ handles.  Suspension upgrades can make another huge improvement, but tires made a bigger improvement than what I have experienced with my suspension upgrades.  With OEM or similar (crap) tires, I will argue that no, the FJ does not handle well - it is unresponsive and difficult to lean into a corner at speed, it gets *more* difficult to lean into a corner as you lean harder or go faster, and it stands up and runs wide under braking.  Good tires make a world of difference, and good suspension / wheel upgrades make almost as big a difference as tires.

[Mark Olson]

+1 on what Bill posted .. start with good tires with correct psi. 

[wildfire]

I agree if you are not comfortable on a bike that you will probably drop it.

Now on the other side of the coin I had not been on a bike in 12 years and the first bike I bought after that hiatis was....wait for it ....a Goldwing. Now that is a big heavy beast. It took me about a week of riding to get used to riding but then it was like I had never stopped. I think the main reason was that I felt confident but needed to relearn the physical skills of how to ride if that makes sense.

Thats my story but as  I said to start with you have got to feel confident on a bike. If that means starting off again on a small bike then that is the way to go.

FJ's are addictive. Enjoy.

[Burns]

+1 on what Bill posted .. start with good tires with correct psi. 

+ 2
it's the rubber more than the rubbee.

[ribbert]

there's a saying " if it ain't broke, I ain't through workin' on it"  (well that's my version).

I have to wonder why you (of all people) would want to modify a bike that was in your sweet spot already.

Haha, yes, I have a similar saying.

The sluggishness to turn, squirrelling through corners and slight tendency for the front wheel to tuck in are just unanticipated consequences of fitting new suspension, it has altered the steering geometry and changed the overall height and the F&R relative to each other and is not a flaw of the components.

I understand suspension upgrades give the least bang for buck (just under $2000) and improvements are only ever going to be incremental, assuming your current set up is in good serviceable condition, but the one issue with my previous set up, which I had mentioned many times, was that rear end was a little too hard for general riding and when backed off, adversely affected handling. At around 15,000km of country riding each year, avoiding freeways and straight roads where possible, this is not an insignificant point as comfort over those distances is important and at times a safety issue.

It has been observed many times by people familiar with both countries that our roads here are on average much worse, particularly our secondary roads which I spend nearly all my time on. I spend a lot of time with my arse in the air.

Having little else left to improve on my bike, other than hard luggage, I thought I would bite the bullet.

My expectation was that I could achieve a more comfortable ride without compromising handling.

That is why I changed it.

Noel

(Usual Disclaimer: no squirrels were hurt in the...........etc)

[Burns]

Well, I'm all about dialing the bike in for the way it is ridden, so I understand the perpetual modification syndrome. Everything comes down to a compromise in practice.  The "sweet spot" on the straight line stability vs maneuverability and the suspension comfort vs tautness continuums is very much a factor of the surface and straightness of your path. Which is constantly changing.

Since there is no universal sweet spot suspension adjustability is a consideration.

Air caps on the front forks give you spring rate variability to close to zero cost, other than the GL shocks has anybody put an air bag on the rear end?

[FJmonkey]

I put an air bag on the rear end once... She screamed so loud, I had to get rid of her. Now I have someone that likes Kookalooo...

[Bill_Rockoff]

Noel, I have missed the thread detailing your mods.  What have you installed, and how is it set up?

Generally, making the fork angle steeper will cause it to tuck a bit but will also make the bike easier to turn in.  If you are having trouble turning in but it still tends to tuck, I would ask how new the tires are and what pressure you're running front and rear.  

If the bike hobby-horses in a long corner, that could also point to underinflation, as well as mis-alignment between the front and rear wheels (maybe uneven adjustment of the chain tensioners from one side to another, or maybe play in steering head or swingarm bearings.)  Notchy or stiff stem bearings make things non-linear, and so do forks that are not parallel with each other.

General consensus is that the stock FJ springs are way soft, and the damping is still inadequate even for the too-soft springs.  Heavier springs up front coupled with heavier / more fork oil are the biggest bang for the buck up front, but fork valves are pretty reasonable.  For the rear, I don't know of anything effective other than "a pricey aftermarket shock."  It may seem ridiculous to put a shock on your bike that costs 1/3 to 2/3 what your bike would sell for without it, but a proper spring rate along with proper control of the suspension movement must be tried to be believed.  It is both more comfortable and better controlled at the same time.  (Worn out factory stuff is the opposite, both too soft and too harsh at the same time.)

People who know more and write better than I do have written about proper spring rates and preload to give you proper sag (laden and unladen.)  

Rear shocks with ride height adjustment will allow you to raise the ride height without needing a ton of preload.  I find my bike is pretty easy to turn in when I have the ride height set up so that the rear tire touches the ground even with the bike on the center stand.  I should experiment with the front fork position; I have the front end dropped about an inch, and that may be too much.

Before I had any of this stuff dialed in, the bike was a bit of a handful.  "Hey, I should be awesome-fast, I have all this new hardware."  {Ralph, John The Beer Scientist's step-dad, rides away from me on Deal's Gap, and the only time I catch up at all is when slower traffic is holding him up.}  "Hmmm....  Guess I have some work to do."

[ribbert]

Noel, I have missed the thread detailing your mods.

Ha, no you didn't, there wasn't one.

Thanks for taking the time to run through all that, many things to think about.

Thanks

Noel

[Burns]

I put an air bag on the rear end once... She screamed so loud, I had to get rid of her. Now I have someone that likes Kookalooo...

my wife married an airbag.