Need some help with ignition.......

[FJWizard]

Hey fellas, first post here.

I just bought a 1987 FJ-1200 with 3,850 original miles from an estate sale!! 

Bike is bone stock and literally as new with the exception of various hardened/cracked rubber parts, original dry rotted tires (with a mfg date code 426 - October 1986), cracked brake/clutch lines, gunked carbs, light rust in the tank, etc.  It's been under a tarp and unridden since 1995!!!......almost 20 years sitting under a tarp in the back of a garage.  I had a 1987 FJ-1200 while in College back in the late 80's and sold it because I needed the money......loved that bike.  I have 4 other motorcycles and saw this bike and......well I am a sucker for "barn finds" and it came home with me much to the wife's chagrin. I pulled the plugs and looked in the cylinders with a fiber optic camera and they are rust free with some sort of red colored fogging oil. Cylinders look to be in perfect condition and a compression test was right at 150 PSI on all of them.....no rust.  I soaked the gas tank in Evapo-Rust (awesome stuff) for 4 days and the inside now looks new. Cleaned and rebuilt the cards, bought a crapload of odds and ends from Randy at RPM, and the local Yamaha dealer. I will post pics when I get it on the road in the next couple of weeks.

Anyway, need some help.  The stock ignition box is shot. Bike starts and purrs like a kitten, but has no spark advance. Local Yamaha dealer checked it and the vacuum advance diaphragm is leaking.  So rather than replacing with the same vacuum style analog TCI, I sourced a newer style 89-later Digital TCI, pickup, ignition rotor, and "boost" sensor from ebay.  I've got it all wired up, but, want to verify the wiring color and pinouts before I try to start it. I have the service manuals and wiring diagrams, and except for the kick stand disable wire, everything else on the newer digital box looks like it matches up to the older wiring connector....but I don't know if the pin layout on the older 1987 connectors match up to the pins on the newer 1989-later Digital TCI.

Can someone post a closeup pic of the connectors for the TID14-90 ignition box?   Should be the same for any FJ 1989 and later.

Much Appreciated!!!

[movenon]

Welcome. You found a rare find there !

If you are replacing the TCI just because the vacuum boost isn't working you need to read this thread. http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=11690.0.

That vacuum boost is just an emissions thing on the U.S. bikes only.  A lot of us cap that port off on the intake and delete the hose. Your primary advance is not vacuum controlled.  I have run it both ways and there is no difference in performace or fuel economy.

How ever if you do the conversion please let us know if it works as this has been brought up before. The 89 and up DCI has some additional features. The newer FJ's have fuel pumps and the control signal comes from the DCI. The fuel reserve control might also be different. Although the FJ was sold here for 10 years there is 4 different models or groups.

Post some pictures of your find when you get a chance.     Also you might go up to the "Introduction" area and introduce yourself. Lots of good members here always willing to help.  Keep an eye out on the rallys.   They are a lot of fun and a great way to learn even more.
George

[FJWizard]

Thanks for the link, but, I question if the information in that thread is accurate?

I have a LOT of experience with FJ12 engines from my Legends racing "phase" several years ago.  My first two seasons, I used Yamaha ignitions, and after that, I switched to the Redbox units.  Digging deep here, but, the 1987 and older Hitachi TCI units are analog with dual mag pickups and a single node timing rotor.....1 pickup for cylinders 1,4 and the other (180 degrees away) for cylinders 2,3.  The only mechanism for firing the coils is when the single node timing rotor triggers each pickup.  Advance is applied by an averaged vacuum signal transducer from cylinder 2 using an inline vacuum pulse modulator (small grey unit inline to the vac hose).  The 1987-older analog units are not digital and have no look-up table for spark curve relying on vacuum advance instead. There is no closed throttle advance on the 1987-older analog TCI (TID14-51) to my knowledge.

In terms of 1989-later TID14-90 series digital TCI, they use digital spark table lookup, a single magnetic timing pickup, and a 4 node, dished timing rotor (90 degrees apart) for precision.  The "boost sensor" pulls a pin low on the TCI based on high-vac conditions which causes the unit to implement 50 degrees of advance on closed throttle decel. On the legends cars, we still kept them connected......I can't remember the reason, but, it mattered.

The older analog TCI units were more desirable on the legends cars because they have a higher 10K rpm rev limit vs the Digital TCI 9,300 rpm.....and we had to use either stock or the "red box" units.  However, the vacuum sensors always leaked due to age like the one on my "new" FJ1200, so we used the later digital units and modified the gearing for lower rev limit of the digital TCI.

I may be wrong on this, but, I think as these bikes get older it would be good to have an ignition thread laying out all of the options and wiring specifics for both analog and digital ignition systems for the FJ.

I'm sure Randy can chime in here with some additional info.

[FJWizard]

....and I still need a pic of the later model Digital TCI connectors.......mucho gracias!

[movenon]

I am sure Randy and others will jump in with more information and hopefully a picture. You missed me by about a week, I had my fairing off last week and could of helped. I reviewed my pictures but nothing there you could use.

Its interesting you mention the rev limiter, that also been a topic. Thanks for the information.  The more information the better ! On my 1990 I had a leaky boost sensor and ran it without one for a year with no noticeable difference then I came across a good boost sensor and reconnected it just because it was there at the time.  If you hook yours up with the newer boost sensor don't forget the little white restrictor that is in line with the hose.

I am just guessing here but running the advance up on deceleration would be to burn off fuel and it might help clean off the plugs ? They only used that system here in the states.

More help will jump in here soon I hope. A few of the active FJ members took a ride over to the Reno Air races and should show up soon. Now that you have thrown out some information it will be like chumming for sharks  

I am jealous of your find. WOW what a deal !
George

[FJWizard]

The 87 FJ-1200 I had in college holds a special place in my heart.....I loved that bike.  That bike got me PLENTY of female "entertainment" from 1989-1991.

This "new" 87 FJ takes me back to some good years.....young, virile (still virile), whole life in front of me.  Hell, it even smells the same as that bike 25 years ago.....right after it first starts.

I'm new here, so at risk of sounding like a braggart, I paid $1800 for it....their asking price!!!  I guess everything does not wind up on eBay or Craigslist after all.  I've been casually looking for a nice low mileage 87 for years, and I walk around a pile of junk at a sale and there next to old washing machine sits a dusty old FJ.  I figured it probably had 50K+ miles.  Looked at the odo and checked the tire date codes and new it was original. Checked the belly pan....original and unblemished.  All of the fairing plastic and paint is mint. I have never pulled out my checkbook so fast in my life. 

The factory toolkit was still wrapped in plastic and the white canvas pouch is perfectly clean.

OK, I will stop blathering on, but, I have to give another shout out to EvapoRust.  I was worried about the tank.....especially down in the seams.  The tank was half-full and the fuel looked like 20 year old molasses. Upon draining, there was caked on varnish and rust.....nothing flaking but some solid surface rust.  Flushing with some swing set chain and Oil Eater and then 4-5 day soak with 5 gallons of EvapoRust = factory new looking tank inside.

[movenon]

I usually run things by the other half but if I ran across that I would just had to beg for forgiveness!  I always carry a spare check or two with me. That was a no brainier for sure.  

I have said this before, there are a lot of good bikes out there but the FJ just "fits" me.  For me it is a perfect all around bike.  And its nice when you see a clean FJ around.  The FJ owners as a group seem to get there fair share of attention.  

A few weeks ago we were parked at an event and a newer 1200cc BMW was there and the owner locked onto our FJ's. Asked how old they were we said 25 years and he was amazed at what kind of shape they were in.  I mentioned that they were old school with carbs but that there wasn't anything on them we couldn't fix. The look in his eyes said it all.  Shook his head and said "must be nice". yea it's nice.

I did the same thing with my tank and Evaporust plus some vinegar etc.. Took me a long week but I got it clean. Lots of work, the FJ tank has some hidden areas you just can't get to.  Not an easy tank to clean.

If you can think about going to a rally sometime.  It really is a great group of people.  And the rallys are pretty low key.
George

[FJWizard]

.....found the answer.  Called the Yamaha dealer service rep and he told me to look on pages 316-325 for the service manual appendix that has connector pinouts with wiring color for each of the various FJ-1200 models.  I must have been blind because I looked through there multiple times.

The older analog and newer digital TCI units have the same connectors, but, completely different pin assignments.  Had this been my first FJ back in 1990, I probably would have plugged in the Digital TCI and gave her a go......and likely fried the unit.  Ahhh the benefits of age and wisdom (allegedly) vs the impulsive 21 year old I was then.

In any case, I adjusted the pins around in the correct order with the only differences being that the red/white wire (+12v power) on the 87 is the same as the red/black wire on 1991-later FJ's (the digital TCI unit I bought was from a 92), and the black/white wire (side stand switch) is the same as the blue/yellow wire on the 91-later FJ......the bike fired right up.

I had forgotten how easy FJ's are to work on......unlike my ZX-14R.

I'm still waiting on a couple of misc parts, but, so far:

Parts:

New Avon ST radials, installed and balanced myself
EBC HH brake pads front and rear (saved original Sumitomo pads)
Cross-drilled stainless rotors front and rear (saved originals)
Stainless front brake (3-line), rear brake, clutch lines (original lines were toast)
Barnett Coil spring clutch conversion (stock clutch plates look new)
FJR Clutch and Brake master cylinders
Progressive fork springs
New sprockets (original 530 chain still looks new)
RPM Oil Cooler kit
RPM Fork Brace
Various seals, gaskets, o rings, etc from RPM
Uni-Pod Foam Filters
Dyno-Jet Kit, stage-3 configuration
Digital TCI/Pickup/Rotor from 1992 FJ (original analog vaccum TCI had a leak)
Accel Super-Coils/wires (3-ohm)
NGK Iridium plugs .050 gap
99-07 Hayabusa Yoshimura RS-3 slip ons with custom fabbed, TIG welded stainless head pipes, stock header pipes/collector box (saved mint condition, no-rust factory mufflers)
Stainless allen bolts on everything I could find
New clutch slave cylinder
HID D2R Headlight bulb with machined H4 adapter....nice sharp low beam cut-off, but no high beam (I don't ride much at night)
BikeMaster ZX mirrors (original mirrors saved)

Labor:

Checked valve clearance (2 shims)
Rebuilt carbs
Synced carbs
Cleaned fuel tank with Evapo-Rust
Cleaned, cleaned, scrubbed everything
Cleaned/polished engine cases/wheels/suspension with compound and a toothbrush
Bled lines, new DOT4 fluid
Repacked wheel bearings (bearings good) with synthetic grease (you should have seen the original grease after 20 years of sitting)
New wheel axle seals
Change fork oil
Rear shock seems fine
Powder coat metallic silver - cam cover and carb caps
Powder coat gloss black - clip-ons, top triple clamp, oil filter housing (original clutch slave leaked), sprocket cover
Changed all the bulbs in instrument cluster

[FJmonkey]

What fork oil did you use?

[FJWizard]

Lucas Oil synthetic 15W fork oil.  Good stuff.  I set the level at 135 mm from the top fully compressed with no spring.

I was going to replace the fork seals, but, the upper tubes and dust covers are in perfect condition, so I'll see how long the 27 year old original seals last.

[FJmonkey]

Lucas Oil synthetic 15W fork oil.  Good stuff.  I set the level at 135 mm from the top fully compressed with no spring.

I was going to replace the fork seals, but, the upper tubes and dust covers are in perfect condition, so I'll see how long the 27 year old original seals last.

If you have them open, replace the seals, easy fix and a good prevention method of an eventual failure... The option is having to crack the system open again when the seals fail shortly after the original maintenance... Balance the cost of the seals and what your time is worth to do it again.... That said, if you are the mechanic, do as you please.... No skin off my nose....

[Pat Conlon]

Thanks for the link, but, I question if the information in that thread is accurate?
.....I'm sure Randy can chime in here with some additional info.

I missed this thread, sorry. Randy was the one how gave me the info. for this File. (I didn't pull it out of thin air)

To follow up on Wizard's question here is the timing table restored to the File.

Paul, notice the ignition advance at the higher vacuum levels (closed throttle 150mm/Hg)