New Intake Manifolds, how tight does one tighten the circular clamps?

[JoBrCo]

Well I broke down and bought something I'd hoped I wouldn't have to, because I thought their thickness should give them a longer lifespan, and it does to some degree.  But there are several reasons why the intake manifolds had to be replaced.  I just hope vendors realize the importance of the shelf life of rubber parts, not placing "the bottom line" before professionalism, which should always be of greater concern to the purchaser, as in this case, when the bikes support is being slowly phased out by it's manufacturer.

Anyway, here are the questions:

How tight should one tighten the circular clamps that help seal/retain the carb rack in the intake manifolds?

What do you all think about the OEM clamps, on the earlier FJ's, i.e., do you think that the application would be better served if the clamps didn't have that small U shaped non contact area at the bottom, i.e. do you think the OEM clamps could lead to vacuum leaks or excessive wear of the rubber?

I saw one vender offer standard circular clamps, much like the ones used on the OEM airbox side of the carbs, as a replacement for the OEM clamps on the manifold side, do you think they would better serve the application?

Do you see any advantage in using the OEM manifold clamps, like the Yamaha engineers obviously thought they saw?  After all, my logic/knowledge of physics could be missing something here.  Is it simply so one doesn't over tighten, only to that point, that they can no longer be tightened (out of threads)? Yet there is then a portion of the manifold where the rubber is being stretched, due to friction, and there is limited pressure to help create a seal against vacuum leaks, that ever increases as the U becomes wider with over tightening, to that maximum extent possible (out of threads).

Do you think it's OK to use a lubricant, to aide in the insertion of the carb rack into the rubber manifolds? If yes, what type would you recommend; silicone grease?

Are there any top tips for intake manifold installation?

Thanks for your thoughts on this matter as multiple ideas from multiple minds, of multiple professions and experience, can always provide greater illumination, for all to consider.  There are no stupid questions or stupid answers, only ever varying degrees of experience and knowledge.

Signed, "the imperfect perfectionist, asking questions so as to only be adequate."  --And to cause everyone to think, a good thing as we age-- Camaraderie comes in many forms.  


FJ Forever!  

JoBrCo

[racerrad8]

If you buy your intake manifolds from a reputable, FJ specific vendor that sells a significant amount of intake manifolds annually, then you do not have to worry about buying NOS or manifolds that have been sitting on a shelf for extended periods.

You might want to inspect the clamps, they should be a complete clamping area, with the exclusion of the index portion at the top between the clamping area. The U shape you are referring to is there to keep the heat shield away from the bottom of the carbs.

You should not need any lubrication with new intake manifolds as they are soft & supple allowing the carbs to be easily inserted. If you want to use a lubricant, wd40 or Tri-Flow works just fine.

RPM has everything you need in stock and so you know, I sell close to 50 sets of intake manifolds annually, so no worries about receiving old ones.

Randy -RPM

[movenon]

Right or wrong I don't know but I have a tub of automatic transmission assembly lube. It is used on seals in transmissions and I use a very small amount of it on the boots.  And I know they sky will fall but I also use it around the bead area of the carb diaphragm's.  Cut my hand once in the shop, worked good for that to.
George

[JoBrCo]

If you buy your intake manifolds from a reputable, FJ specific vendor that sells a significant amount of intake manifolds annually, then you do not have to worry about buying NOS or manifolds that have been sitting on a shelf for extended periods.

You might want to inspect the clamps, they should be a complete clamping area, with the exclusion of the index portion at the top between the clamping area. The U shape you are referring to is there to keep the heat shield away from the bottom of the carbs.

You should not need any lubrication with new intake manifolds as they are soft & supple allowing the carbs to be easily inserted. If you want to use a lubricant, wd40 or Tri-Flow works just fine.

RPM has everything you need in stock and so you know, I sell close to 50 sets of intake manifolds annually, so no worries about receiving old ones.

Randy -RPM

FYI, Randy, that was not for your ears, but for those that may be new, so they could appreciate the concept of "Shelf Life," which is not something a lot of people think about.  I do because the USN payed particular attention to such things when managing their supply inventory.  If the part exceeded shelf life, they pitched it and ordered new stock.

Make no mistake, I was sure that your stock would be fresh, but I'm on a VERY strict budget, many of these parts costs are coming out of our food budget, which is why I've lost 10 lbs so far.  Then we've had to call off work because our car went hard down and one of our employers is 25 miles away, well outside our cities mass transit system, leaving us with an even smaller budget.

I'm hoping that my decision to buy the manifolds @ $40.00 cheaper than your price, was not ill conceived.  They said that they acquired them in 2013, but I neglected to ask them from what source they acquired them, assuming they understood my concern, with the shelf life of rubber components.  So my original comments were aimed at my doubt, and for the edification of the lurkers, to serve their needs in such matters.

It's a tough call when trying to balance budget versus quality, both of which are not necessarily known quantities, which is in fact the lesson here.

I just hope I made a good choice, because I seriously doubt anyone here at this forum is worse off than we are right about now, and it's all due to not fully recovering from the US recession that started on June 3 2009, for us. Our 2013 tax return, gross income, was only half of what it was for 2008, that's 5 years ago.  It wasn't that long ago that we were on food assistance, which lasted for over 2 years. I could go on, but I'm sure you'd rather not continue to hear a sob story.

There is no malice aimed at anyone here, just Wall Street, Sallie Mae and Freddie Mac; the ones that are supposed to be responsible for us almost loosing everything, back in 2009, not yet to fully recover; or so the experts have indicated.

FJ Forever!  


JoBrCo

[JoBrCo]

Right or wrong I don't know but I have a tub of automatic transmission assembly lube. It is used on seals in transmissions and I use a very small amount of it on the boots.  And I know they sky will fall but I also use it around the bead area of the carb diaphragm's.  Cut my hand once in the shop, worked good for that to.
George

George, I'm beginning to believe that you own a major amount of stock in many of the companies that produce ATF.

I actually used some of the 5w20 bought for our civic, because it surely didn't need it anymore, on my original intake manifolds.  Knowing full well that one is not supposed to apply petroleum products to rubber, because it softens it up, but in this case, almost 30 year old rubber, I thought it could only do some good.


FJ Forever!   


JoBrCo

[JoBrCo]

P.S. George,

I really wouldn't recommend it as an antiseptic though, not because it wouldn't work, but rather because it probably will kill anything alive, including you, and we can't have that George, you're too important a commodity around here, with your willingness to help, and vast experience.

I got gasoline in one of my fresh cuts a couple weeks ago and it didn't burn much at the time, but it was numb for about a week afterwards, and still feels kind of funny. I tend to wear those nitrile gloves, but obviously forget now and then.  I know that OSHA requires protection when working with such fluids; word to the wise!  Which obviously sometimes doesn't include me. 


FJ Forever!   


JoBrCo

[JoBrCo]

Well I got the Intake Manifolds.  They, Parts N More, lead their prospective customers to believe they are OEM, by referencing OEM numbers in the parts description, yet failing to mention they are after market, as in fact it seems as though they are, actually a complete kit with all four manifolds and o-rings.  The box states: "Made in Japan." "Tour Max" subtitled "High Performance Equipment," seems to be the brand.  "Motorcycle Parts" is also on the side of the box.  They have a part number/nomenclature sticker in the side: "48-1487  CHY-12 Carb Holder Kit" They seem to be soft and pliable enough, though I've never seen freshly manufactured OEM versions as a point of reference.  The vacuum tube to rubber joint seems potentially suspect, with respect to the possibility of future vacuum leaks.  This is because I cannot verify the strength and integrity of the joint.  They have used what looks to be, an epoxy to ensure connection, but also they appear to have used straight brass tubes, without the threaded portion that screws into the rubber, though they do have the hose barb on the end to seal against the blind plugs/vacuum lines.  With nothing that appears to "grab" the rubber, unless it's out of sight, it seems that they may pull out, and or leak, with the repeated manipulation associated with routine synching.

At this point I'm not sure what to do.  Does anyone have experience with these particular parts?

I may be able to post a photo, after charging the cameras battery.


TIA!


FJ Forever!   

JoBrCo

[racerrad8]

At this point I'm not sure what to do.  Does anyone have experience with these particular parts?

I may be able to post a photo, after charging the cameras battery.

JoBrCo

Sorry, no opinion here.

I have never ordered the tourmax intake manifolds, because, at least with US dealers they have a cost of more than what you paid for them and they are not genuine Yamaha intakes.

So, for the additional $10.00 a piece I know that I am selling genuine Yamaha parts.

If they offered the tourmax at a significantly cheaper price over the OE part, then I would consider offering those too, but since they don't, I only offer the genuine Yamaha intakes.

Randy - RPM

[JoBrCo]

At this point I'm not sure what to do.  Does anyone have experience with these particular parts?

I may be able to post a photo, after charging the cameras battery.

JoBrCo

Sorry, no opinion here.

I have never ordered the tourmax intake manifolds, because, at least with US dealers they have a cost of more than what you paid for them and they are not genuine Yamaha intakes.

So, for the additional $10.00 a piece I know that I am selling genuine Yamaha parts.

If they offered the tourmax at a significantly cheaper price over the OE part, then I would consider offering those too, but since they don't, I only offer the genuine Yamaha intakes.

Randy - RPM

Thanks Randy, understand that with me, right now, money is my main concern. In the past that hasn't been the case though. When I've had plenty of money, I go the distance for the sake of quality, if I can see that one item is definitely of better quality than another.  In this case, as with many cases when one mail orders, quality cannot usually be seen until one actually has the part in hand.  I still don't know how they compare to their OEM counterparts, as I've never seen the OEM's in brand new condition.

Thanks for getting back to me Randy, I think I'll let them know of my dissatisfaction with their not making it clear that these are aftermarket, that their part description seems to indicate they are OEM; a potentially deceptive tactic, to ensure a sale.  Though I seriously doubt they'll offer any sort of solution that shall benefit me 100%, instead only worried about their bottom line.

Would you like to see photos, to judge quality for yourself, as much as they allow, that is? I guess photos could be of benefit to others as well.  I'll see what I can do, this camera's batteries are a pain in the rear, low Amp/Hour rating, but the camera actually yields pretty good photos, it's an older, 3 mega pixel Nikon.

Thanks again to all those willing to be of help, I really appreciate it, and won't forget it!


FJ Forever!   

JoBrCo

[racerrad8]

Thanks Randy, understand that with me, right now, money is my main concern.

JoBrCo

I fully understand and I wish there was a cheaper "option" but since there inst, I offer the product I have no issue standing behind.

Randy - RPM

[JoBrCo]

I fully understand...

Actually not, the "only" reason I've mentioned my hardship, "the only reason," is so you and everyone else understands "why" I'm not "supporting" RPM and this site, any more than I have, and that's all there is to it.  Any other thoughts on the matter is purely preconception on the part of the one thinking as such, and is 100% fiction. I've always pulled my own weight to the point of almost rejecting Pat's offer.  The only reason I didn't, I've already mentioned, several times.  Call it shame if you will, I would only ask that people understand, and leave it at that.  Of course I remain hopeful that things shall change sooner than later.  Currently I can only give that which I can, which isn't much.

Now I'm sure you understand, because I can't say it any clearer than that.

Peace my friends!


FJ Forever!   

JoBrCo

Here's the pic of the Intake Manifolds:



Note the brass vacuum bleed tubes, specifically how they are secured to the rubber, two part epoxy glue, or so it appears.

[ribbert]

Here's the pic of the Intake Manifolds:



Note the brass vacuum bleed tubes, specifically how they are secured to the rubber, two part epoxy glue, or so it appears.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over this. The fact they are glued in is just a different way of doing it, not necessarily and inferior one. After all, the largest passenger planes in the world have their wings (and many other parts) held together with glue.

I would take some comfort in the fact they're made in Japan, not China, and the task they perform is a pretty simple one. I wouldn't give it another thought, just bolt 'em up and go.

Noel

[JoBrCo]

OK, I found the root of my idle increase problem once I removed the old Intake Manifolds (IM's). Those of you that made the vacuum leak call were correct.  On the Heads Aluminum mating surface, (for the IM's), there was fuel beyond the o-rings circumference, varnish spanning from inside their ID to outside their OD as well as corrosion doing the same thing, and of course the o-rings were flattened with signs, in various spots, that both the varnish and corrosion had created indentations in their surface, hence the fuel getting past them.

So now for the question:

Does anyone know if it would be a problem to use some sort of sealant to protect the Aluminum Heads mating surface, so as to preclude future moisture from causing more corrosion, that shall further pit/deform the surface, if it's not curtailed, making it ever harder for the o-rings to properly seal?

I have Permatex Ultra Black (<500°), but will get their Ultra Copper (<700°) if its a better solution.


FJ Forever!  


JoBrCo

[FJ_Hooligan]

Best solution is to get it running and ride it!  That way fuel won't have the opportunity to sit in the intake.

That's actually how I found out my intake O-rings were shot.  I noticed a drip hanging on the lower side of one of the intakes.  Thinking it was oil from a compromised valve cover gasket, I swiped it with my finger and realized it was a fuel drip. 

Off came the carbs and intakes.  O-rings were as you describe.  Hopelessly flattened. 

Interesting thing is at the time I had no symptoms of an intake air leak.  I thought it odd that fuel could leak out but air wasn't being sucked in.  I supposed that the fuel could have gradually seeped by the o-ring over time.  There was no evidence of any pooling or other residue below the intakes.  At least 3 of them showed this seeping.

[JoBrCo]

Best solution is to get it running and ride it!  That way fuel won't have the opportunity to sit in the intake.

That's actually how I found out my intake O-rings were shot.  I noticed a drip hanging on the lower side of one of the intakes.  Thinking it was oil from a compromised valve cover gasket, I swiped it with my finger and realized it was a fuel drip.  

Off came the carbs and intakes.  O-rings were as you describe.  Hopelessly flattened.  

Interesting thing is at the time I had no symptoms of an intake air leak.  I thought it odd that fuel could leak out but air wasn't being sucked in.  I supposed that the fuel could have gradually seeped by the o-ring over time.  There was no evidence of any pooling or other residue below the intakes.  At least 3 of them showed this seeping.

Come on Hooli, how about your solution to my question, man, though I do appreciate your sharing your experience!  I am definitely attempting to RIDE IT, Hooli,  I think you're enjoying stringing me on a bit, aren't you?  Playing the part of the consummate hooligan, huh?  

Do you think permatex ultra black will reduce the o-rings seal or further cause problems?  Yes/No/Maybe

TIA everyone!


FJ Forever!  

JoBrCo