Not burning oil before 19 years of sitting, now it is?

[JoBrCo]

While trying to sync, I've noticed that my '85 FJ1100 is burning oil, though she wasn't 19 years ago when I stopped running her.  As a matter of fact the oil sight gauge was full before I drained it and put in new oil for her resurrection a week ago.  Also during the sync I noticed that when she gets hot, kind of fast, her RPM's start to rise all by themselves.  I've heard several possibilities, a vacuum leak, which doesn't seem to be the problem, I sprayed WD-40 all around the intake manifolds and carbs, I've also heard that valves can cause the problem, which seems to go along with burning oil, maybe.

I was wondering if anyone that has brought an FJ back from mothballs, or anyone else for that matter, is familiar with my current situation?  No I haven't checked valve clearances yet, because suddenly her resurrection went from a slow paced hobby, to a full blown immediate necessity, with the sudden demise of our Honda Civic, going down hard.  So I decided to sync all over again after the valve adjustment at a later date, post the Honda Civic resurrection.

I currently find myself between a rock and a hard spot.

Anyone have any ideas?

TIA

FJ Forever!

JoBrCo

[the fan]

It's most likely dried out/ leaking valve stem seals. It's possible that one or more of the bores has rusted or the rings are stuck but my money would be on valve seals.

Rising idle, while generally a vacuum issue, is likely a clogged passage in the idle circuit. If you have checked all of the vacuum lines including the ones connected to the petcock and advancer, I would reclean the carbs.

[charleygofast]

It's most likely dried out/ leaking valve stem seals. It's possible that one or more of the bores has rusted or the rings are stuck but my money would be on valve seals.

Rising idle, while generally a vacuum issue, is likely a clogged passage in the idle circuit. If you have checked all of the vacuum lines including the ones connected to the petcock and advancer, I would reclean the carbs.

Kudos on the valve stem seals. Mine sat for 5 yrs and I had a smoking/oil burning issue when I brought her back to life...new seals and problems go away. Did you oil the cylinders and pistons good when you put her away? Very good Idea. Hope this helps,The Fan has it down on the carb cleaning Idle circuit idea also!                Good luck to you! Charley.

[movenon]

I use to rebuild and restored old cars (lots of them). They almost always smoke like a pig if they have been sitting for a few years (or as in one case underwater).  Not that there isn't a problem but I would not pass judgment on it until you have at least 500 miles on it.  This is going to draw a ton a flack but I have done it and will do it again if the problem arises.  Drain a quart of oil and put a quart of ATF in it, run it for 500 miles and then change your oil.  Or if you are short on funds or time, just run it.   Just an opinion and just because I do it doesn't mean you should.  Give it at least 500 miles of mid range RPM running for the rings and seals to reseat.

RPM rising by it's self is normal when cold using no choke.  Mine will come up about 4 or 500 RPM from cold to warm when using no choke. Using the choke it will idle up about the same amount to around 1500 RPM and drop to 1100 RPM +- when warm and choke off.  

George

[JoBrCo]

It's most likely dried out/ leaking valve stem seals. It's possible that one or more of the bores has rusted or the rings are stuck but my money would be on valve seals.

Rising idle, while generally a vacuum issue, is likely a clogged passage in the idle circuit. If you have checked all of the vacuum lines including the ones connected to the petcock and advancer, I would reclean the carbs.

While syncing neither the petcock nor the igniter advance box is connected to a vacuum source, they are out of the mix.  I thought that it's true that during synching one would not want anything bleeding vacuum from any "one" carb as that would taint the results of a "balanced" sync, yes/no?

As far as the valve stem seals go, that's exactly what I was thinking.  All rubber on this bike is definitely showing signs of oxidation age; VOC depletion.  Though I was also thinking of a stuck ring or two, which would definitely cause the engine to get hot fast, which it's doing.  Once I turn it off you can hear all the creaking, popping and snapping, as the metal starts to shrink back down to it's former size.  I actually tried to crack the plugs while it was hot and couldn't budge them until she was cool.  Of course I could be forgetting how hot she used to get, thus unknowingly exaggerating how hot she's getting now.

I really just don't want to do anything wrong, then regret it, I've done enough of that already, 19 years worth! 

Thanks for your time, my friend!


FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo

[JoBrCo]

It's most likely dried out/ leaking valve stem seals. It's possible that one or more of the bores has rusted or the rings are stuck but my money would be on valve seals.

Rising idle, while generally a vacuum issue, is likely a clogged passage in the idle circuit. If you have checked all of the vacuum lines including the ones connected to the petcock and advancer, I would reclean the carbs.

Kudos on the valve stem seals. Mine sat for 5 yrs and I had a smoking/oil burning issue when I brought her back to life...new seals and problems go away. Did you oil the cylinders and pistons good when you put her away? Very good Idea. Hope this helps,The Fan has it down on the carb cleaning Idle circuit idea also!                Good luck to you! Charley.

Since the 19 years began, I mystery oiled each cylinder, about 1-2 tablespoons each, in the beginning, about 6 years ago, and about 2 weeks ago.  In all cases I manually turned her over by hand to distribute the oil as much as I could, considering her slant,  I guess I should have pushed her up a slight hill to compensate for that as well, but I didn't. In all three cases it turned smooth and easy.

Thanks Charley, I'll need it!

FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo

[JoBrCo]

I use to rebuild and restored old cars (lots of them). They almost always smoke like a pig if they have been sitting for a few years (or as in one case underwater).  Not that there isn't a problem but I would not pass judgment on it until you have at least 500 miles on it.  This is going to draw a ton a flack but I have done it and will do it again if the problem arises.  Drain a quart of oil and put a quart of ATF in it, run it for 500 miles and then change your oil.  Or if you are short on funds or time, just run it.   Just an opinion and just because I do it doesn't mean you should.  Give it at least 500 miles of mid range RPM running for the rings and seals to reseat.

RPM rising by it's self is normal when cold using no choke.  Mine will come up about 4 or 500 RPM from cold to warm when using no choke. Using the choke it will idle up about the same amount to around 1500 RPM and drop to 1100 RPM +- when warm and choke off. 

George

Thanks George, I've heard of the ATF fix for cars before, how about motorcycles and their wet clutch?  And what's the idea? Does the ATF loosen rings and rejuvenate seals?  That's my assumption.

FJ Forever!   

JoBrCo 

[the fan]

In my MX days we used ATF to help a worn clutch make it through one last race... the idea was that the ATF would slightly swell the fiber plates and get you through the night. No idea if actually true... but it worked more than once.

[ribbert]

Once I turn it off you can hear all the creaking, popping and snapping........  Of course I could be forgetting how hot she used to get, thus unknowingly exaggerating how hot she's getting now.

JoBrCo

It is possible you have forgotten how hot it gets and how quickly, but the noises you mention are classic indications of an overheated motor.

Interestingly, I also have a motor that heats up much as you describe, both before and after a rebuild. It is not currently in service and I haven't figured out why yet but it was exactly the same before and after a rebore, pistons and rings.

On an air cooled motor there are not a lot of things that would contribute to this condition, particularly at idle where speed and load have no effect. I haven't really looked into yet but one thing I will be checking for is an obstruction to/in the oil cooler. I left the coolers attached to the motors when swapping.

I didn't realise how abnormal this was until I started using another motor. Of course they still get hot if not moving but at a rate more in keeping for expectations for an air cooled engine.


Noel

[movenon]

The ATF adds adds a little detergent factor.  Possably helps your seals (it works in transmissions).  I had no problem using it and others have probably used ATF before.  Not a "do all" just helps with an old engine that hasn't been ran for a long time. It is an old bike and yes probably every rubber seal in it is hard to some degree but I wouldn't spend any money or time on those issues until you run it for a while barring any catastrophic leaks.

When you pulled the plugs how did they look? It would seem if your engine is getting that hot the plugs would be white?  Might run a compression check just for reference. I can assume it will be low until the rings get reseated but it is nice to know the numbers.

Also if you don't get some good air flowing across the engine they will get hotter than hell in a short period of time.  Have you just got on it and rode down the block and back ?
George

[Maticuno]

As already said, run it for a while and see if the seals tighten up.  I resurrected a '78 KZ400 that sat in a dry desert shed with a tarp for 30 years and just about everything leaked at first.  Now, after just riding it a few hundred miles, it's reduced to just a small drip at the kick starter seal.

[ribbert]

As already said, run it for a while and see if the seals tighten up.  I resurrected a '78 KZ400 that sat in a dry desert shed with a tarp for 30 years and just about everything leaked at first.  Now, after just riding it a few hundred miles, it's reduced to just a small drip at the kick starter seal.

This a good point, many things on a motor, and the rest of a bike, that has not been run for very long time "come good" after some use.

Noel

[JoBrCo]

Once I turn it off you can hear all the creaking, popping and snapping........  Of course I could be forgetting how hot she used to get, thus unknowingly exaggerating how hot she's getting now.

JoBrCo

It is possible you have forgotten how hot it gets and how quickly, but the noises you mention are classic indications of an overheated motor.

Interestingly, I also have a motor that heats up much as you describe, both before and after a rebuild. It is not currently in service and I haven't figured out why yet but it was exactly the same before and after a rebore, pistons and rings.

On an air cooled motor there are not a lot of things that would contribute to this condition, particularly at idle where speed and load have no effect. I haven't really looked into yet but one thing I will be checking for is an obstruction to/in the oil cooler. I left the coolers attached to the motors when swapping.

I didn't realise how abnormal this was until I started using another motor. Of course they still get hot if not moving but at a rate more in keeping for expectations for an air cooled engine.


Noel

I noticed that the oil cooler is pretty cool while the rest of the engine is really hot.  I'm thinking about removing it and flushing it with some kerosene. Yes/No?  What do you guys think?

FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo

[ribbert]

I noticed that the oil cooler is pretty cool while the rest of the engine is really hot.  I'm thinking about removing it and flushing it with some kerosene. Yes/No?  What do you guys think?

FJ Forever!  

JoBrCo

Can't hurt and it eliminates it as a possible cause. I've never come across one being blocked or partially blocked but that doesn't mean it can't happen, it just makes it unusual. I'll be checking mine for flow.
Not all engine problems fit into the "common faults" category.

Noel

[JoBrCo]

I noticed that the oil cooler is pretty cool while the rest of the engine is really hot.  I'm thinking about removing it and flushing it with some kerosene. Yes/No?  What do you guys think?

FJ Forever!  

JoBrCo

Can't hurt and it eliminates it as a possible cause. I've never come across one being blocked or partially blocked but that doesn't mean it can't happen, it just makes it unusual. I'll be checking mine for flow.
Not all engine problems fit into the "common faults" category.

Noel

Do you mean the "rate of flow?" If so, or otherwise, what's your plan for checking "flow?" Meaning what tools, fittings or home made thingamabobs are you thinking on using to obtain such information.  I was thinking of something as simple as a clear hose, to see if there was any flow at all.  I haven't checked the engines schematic for the oil circuit yet, if there is such a thing in the GYSM, but I would imagine that the oil pump is connected directly to the inlet of the oil cooler, at least that would make the most sense to me, but then oil has to be pumped up to the DOHC's too.  I've never cracked open the bikes engine before, and would rather not, actually, so I don't know the plumbing sequence of oil flow.

Rib, anyone?

FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo