RPM Fuel Injection System

[JMR]

Pat
Bite the bullet and go for these. http://www.allensperformance.com/tmr40-d16.html    Or....I should buy them and sell you my FCR-39's (freshly rebuilt secondary to the f'ing ethanol in our fuel)? 

[JPaganel]

So, I was idly browsing and came across this thread.

It's been a while. Whatever happened to the FIFJ?

[Pat Conlon]

Last I heard Chris (fj1289) has some components the RPM FI system on his race bike.

Randy has shelved development the FJ FI system until he gets his shop dyno installed.
Pretty much all the hardware is sorted. It's the ECU tuning that needs dyno time to properly develop.

[ZOA NOM]

It's been abandoned in favor of a full electric powerplant utilizing 48 Makita lithium battery packs from your local Home Depot tool aisle.

[FJmonkey]

It's been abandoned in favor of a full electric powerplant utilizing 48 Makita lithium battery packs from your local Home Depot tool aisle.

Wrong section, but I get the reference, credit for creative effort.

[ZOA NOM]

It's been abandoned in favor of a full electric powerplant utilizing 48 Makita lithium battery packs from your local Home Depot tool aisle.

Wrong section, but I get the reference, credit for creative effort.

[fj1289]

Wooden paddle emojis?  Klavdy would've just posted the pic!  And the bright red buttocks wouldn't be the most disturbing part of the picture ...

Pat, yes the race bike FI is probably 90% common with Randy's system.   The main differences are component placement and fuel system upgrades to support 240+ horsepower levels. 

Randy's goal is an OEM level of quality and "out of the box" function.  That is a tall order to achieve.  For example, I sent Randy a very well sorted project (fuel and ignition maps, basic and advanced settings, etc) from my stock 1200 engine.  I fully expected him to be able to upload it and hit the start button.   Nope!  Not even close.  Ryan had to help get it going - had to add a lot of fuel as I recall.  Now I know a little more about the system - I think it might have been how the ITB (individual throttle bodies) works with just a single MAP sensor and no dedicated baro -- and then "exporting" the tune from 6800' elevation to near sea level.  It will take quite a bit of development work to make a plug & play system that requires no permanent mods - but it will be worth it - especially as the supply of new carbs slowly diminishes.   

[Pat Conlon]

Chris, do you use a dyno for tuning on your race bike?

[fj1289]

Pat, I'd like to, but haven't had the opportunity yet.   All my tuning has been from datalogging and making changes.   When the tune is rough I use the VE Analyser algorithm to make changes.   Then I tweek the maps to smooth them out a bit (most auto tuning or auto analysis programs can create some odd maps with large peaks and valleys that have to be manually smoothed out to create a "good" map).  

I'd like to "build" a good tune via my techniques -- and then compare that to what a full dyno tune would create.   But, you "always" need to tweek a dyno tune for the real world.   It shouldn't be major changes, but has to be tweeked for the real world.  

[Pat Conlon]

Ok, thanks Chris. On your data logging, to get the data, do you do high speed runs at, for instance, an airport, or do you run high rpm's in the lower gears and interpolate for 4th and 5th gear conditions.
Like Randy said, running an airstrip at 130 with a laptop strapped to the back of the bike is not his idea of fun.

Although I think it would be fun.

[fj1289]

I began learning to tune it by trying to cover as much of the map as possible (all loads and rpms) on each run.  I later learned I got much better and quicker results by focusing on one rpm band as much as possible for a run / trying to vary the load via hills and gear selection.  Starting at say 3000 Roma for the first test ride. Then making adjustments to the map and "scale" the changes up the map for higher rpms.   Then go try for 5000 rpms, etc.   The problem like you allude to is finding a safe place to do higher rpm runs - especially at a higher load (usually gear). 

When I start the tuning I give the O2 sensor a lot of authority over real- time corrections to the map (like maybe +/- 40%.  Then, as the map gets closer, I decrease the authority to +/- 20%.  Once I'm pretty happy with the map, I decrease it to maybe +/- 10%.   I do this since an O2 sensor that goes bad (usually has been an O2 controller issue) can make it unrideable if it has too much authority.   

I keep things a bit on the rich side for my tunes - like 12.5:1 for high load conditions, and come back to maybe 13.2:1 or so at cruise.  Newer water cooled bikes will get tuned closer to 13.2:1 for WOT and leaner for cruise.  I know I'm fairly aggressive with the throttle at times and want to make sure the air cooled lump stays happy.   For a true daily driver or touring setup I'd go a little leaner - but haven't played much with it to see what the FJ likes. 

I tried the real-time auto tuning a few times - never worked for me.   I'd either kill the laptop battery too quickly or I'd end up with a blue screen of death or I'd end up with the lap top disconnecting from the ECU.   So I datalog to an android phone using a BT transmitter or an OTG cable.   Can't wait to try the internal SD card logging for the MS3!

I'll use the quarter mile at Bandimerr or Pueblo to test for the Colorado Mile.   Then hopefully just one pass without nitrous to double check the tune at the Colorado Mile and then start working up the nitrous levels again. 

[Pat Conlon]

Thanks Chris!
Speaking for all of us, we are looking forward to the development of this year's bike!

[fj1289]

Thanks!  It's coming together.   I'm traveling home from vacation today.   Hope to get it fired up this weekend!

[Mike Ramos]

Ok, thanks Chris. On your data logging, to get the data, do you do high speed runs at, for instance, an airport, or do you run high rpm's in the lower gears and interpolate for 4th and 5th gear conditions.
Like Randy said, running an airstrip at 130 with a laptop strapped to the back of the bike is not his idea of fun.

Although I think it would be fun.

Good evening Gentlemen,

I agree Pat, it did sound like fun... at least initially....

It should be noted that the FI system as conceived for the FJ seriously improves engine performance.  I do not know the engineering involved but it is substantial.

I had the opportunity to ride the FI FJ locally outside of Oakdale.  I cannot state that it has Wizard's (or yours & other big bore engines) power, but it does pull exceptionally hard - and it DOES NOT let up.  In better hands than mine, I have seen it lift the front wheel in the higher gears...

Back to the "sounds like fun part".  I told the gentleman from RPM that I would run the FI equipped FJ through the gears to establish a baseline - I even have the freeway selected. 

However, the 130 mph would only be part of it (say what?!) as it would need to pull PAST red line in FIFTH gear...  hmmm, fourth I PERHAPS could do, but in calculating the FIFTH gear speeds at the rpm's needed, well...  after having seen the power that they were able to achieve on the Miata with proper FI mapping, it got down right scary...!

So, as do others, I eagerly await a dyno at the RPM facility...!

[ZOA NOM]

Ok, thanks Chris. On your data logging, to get the data, do you do high speed runs at, for instance, an airport, or do you run high rpm's in the lower gears and interpolate for 4th and 5th gear conditions.
Like Randy said, running an airstrip at 130 with a laptop strapped to the back of the bike is not his idea of fun.

Although I think it would be fun.

Good evening Gentlemen,

I agree Pat, it did sound like fun... at least initially....

It should be noted that the FI system as conceived for the FJ seriously improves engine performance.  I do not know the engineering involved but it is substantial.

I had the opportunity to ride the FI FJ locally outside of Oakdale.  I cannot state that it has Wizard's (or yours & other big bore engines) power, but it does pull exceptionally hard - and it DOES NOT let up.  In better hands than mine, I have seen it lift the front wheel in the higher gears...

Back to the "sounds like fun part".  I told the gentleman from RPM that I would run the FI equipped FJ through the gears to establish a baseline - I even have the freeway selected. 

However, the 130 mph would only be part of it (say what?!) as it would need to pull PAST red line in FIFTH gear...  hmmm, fourth I PERHAPS could do, but in calculating the FIFTH gear speeds at the rpm's needed, well...  after having seen the power that they were able to achieve on the Miata with proper FI mapping, it got down right scary...!

So, as do others, I eagerly await a dyno at the RPM facility...!

NOW we're talking... Gimme some of THAT!