Slave Cylinder issues...

[Riolongo]

Okay, I've installed the slave cylinder rebuild kit I picked up from Randy and when I attempted to bleed I had fluid leaking out everywhere from behind slave cover. My first thought is that maybe I mistakenly put seals in backwards or possibly forgot one, not the case. Checked everything out and attempted again, same issue. Took apart for the third time and noticed that I hadn't pulled the lip seal down over the piston, at least I thought that to be the problem. Sealed everything up again and tried, same problem.

Any ideas, I've reviewed the schematics several times for these parts and I don't see anything unusual.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

[FJmonkey]

Where are you? Any members near by that can offer a second set of eyes and trouble shooting skills?

[Riolongo]

I'm just outside of Vancouver, B.C. Canada and yes I've had some assistance in the past from a fellow forum member which was great. As far as this issue is concerned I thought it was pretty straight forward and I'm sure it's something relatively simple. I will be tearing apart again for another look, in the meantime I'm going to take a break and see if anyone on the forum has any additional ideas.

Thanks for the suggestion,

Mike

[Country Joe]

Mike,
What did the bore that the piston rides in look like?  The aluminum bore can corrode or become scored up and not  allow the seal to keep the brake fluid in the system.
If the pitting, scoring or corrosion is bad enough, you would be well advised to buy a new slave cylinder from Randy at RPM.
Joe

[Riolongo]

Joe, the bore was a little pitted, not too bad, mostly just seemed to be gummed up. I polished with a dremel tool as per Gary Foreman in the clutch files section, I thought it looked pretty good but you may be right. I was hoping to avoid buying the entire unit but I may have to.

Thanks,

Mike

[ribbert]

I polished with a dremel tool as per Gary Foreman in the clutch files section
Mike

If this sort of advice exists in the files and people are following it, it needs to be removed.

Noel

[ribbert]

I polished with a dremel tool as per Gary Foreman in the clutch files section
Mike

If this sort of advice exists in the files and people are following it, it needs to be removed.

Noel

OK, the last post seems to have been typed in invisible ink or been a bit subtle.

If you have attacked the inside of your slave cylinder with a dremel you have ruined it and most likely it is now the cause of the leaking, even with new seals.
Anything abrasive enough to "clean it up" is abrasive enough to ruin it, they are soft.

This needs to be made perfectly clear before someone decides to try it on their brakes, after all, it's the same principle isn't it?
Yes, someone probably got away with it in the past but that is more good luck than good management.

Unless you have cylinder hone and know how to use it, don't put anything smaller than your elbow in there.

As a rule of thumb I would only ever replace the seal of a cylinder that appears to be in good condition once, and next time throw it away and replace the whole unit. You could also get a stainless steel liner put in it for about the same price as a new cylinder and it would last forever. This would be a particularly good idea if using Dot 5 brake fluid where the water settles at the bottom.

Noel

[FJ1100mjk]

Anything abrasive enough to "clean it up" is abrasive enough to ruin it, they are soft.

Yes, someone probably got away with it in the past but that is more good luck than good management.

Noel

Respectfully disagreeing...

Yes, the bores on the FJ hand master cylinders, clutch slave cylinders, and brake calipers are soft, but with care a fine/ultra fine wet/dry sandpaper used by hand (usage of a Dremel tool could get you in trouble) works successfully. If I am lucky, then I am lucky multiple times. I have done this on the aforementioned areas of my two FJ's. After thousands of miles, no leaks.

On other forums besides this one, other riders have done this successfully.

As usual, to each their own, and all the risk is on the individual who performs the above.

[ribbert]

Respectfully disagreeing...

Yes, the bores on the FJ hand master cylinders, clutch slave cylinders, and brake calipers are soft, but with care a fine/ultra fine wet/dry sandpaper used by hand (usage of a Dremel tool could get you in trouble) works successfully. If I am lucky, then I am lucky multiple times. I have done this on the aforementioned areas of my two FJ's. After thousands of miles, no leaks.

On other forums besides this one, other riders have done this successfully.

As usual, to each their own, and all the risk is on the individual who performs the above.

I'll see your respectful disagreement and raise you one respectful clarification. I was referring to the use of power tools.
Don't you think it odd that with new seals the slave leaks like a sieve after attacking it with a dremel?

Of course you can clean them up with W&D but think about the advice that was given and taken.
What if someone else reads this and says beauty, my mate's got one of those. So he borrows it and it comes with an 80 grit sanding drum. So he says to himself, ok, if that's what a dremel is, it must the right tool, I read it on the forum. You are assuming that everyone reading the forum has your level of mechanical prowess, they don't.

Ed, you mentioned just in the last day or so having a "mallet to remove the cylinders". Think about who reads this stuff, a mallet to most is just a hammer, and to many, hammers only come in one size and style. A sure recipe for breaking off fins (and still leave the cylinders firmly in place) and yes, exactly that has happened here following advice offered on the forum.

These sweeping and vague references to tools and techniques can lead to disaster when followed by people who are mechanically in the shallow end of the knowledge pool, by their own admission but wanting to learn.

You guys probably never get to see what was quaintly referred to as "the Monday morning fuckups" The weekend warrior who decided to fix his own car/bike over the weekend. They turn up cap in hand and embarrassed, always with some yarn about the brother in law fixing it, wrong parts, running out of time, the dog got run over........... and expect you to fix it or in some cases, go to their home because they have made it undriveable. You would not believe what some people do. I  have seen all manner of substitutes used for brake fluid for example (isn't auto fluid the same thing?)

Even a rough as guts mechanic who hates his job, hates his boss, couldn't give a shit and just found out his wife is cheating on him would not use a dremel on a hydraulic cylinder. He knows you can only be so rough, if only through laziness, because he knows there's a good chance it will come back and bite him on the bum. He also knows the quickest way to get it out of the workshop is to do it properly.

Back to your original point though, I was talking about the use of power tools and you were talking about hand rubbing.

As far as citing other forums as some sort of reference for good practice, forget it.

As usual, to each their own, and all the risk is on the individual who performs the above.

This is not quite true. People follow advice in ignorance, believing it to be sound because they know no better. Yes, the risk is on the individual who performs the above but surely some responsibility rests with author of the advice he was following. Therefore, we should all give some thought to who might read what we write and just how they will interpret it.

I'm not short of people contacting me who have come to grief following advice offered on line. Some of it beggars belief.

(Blood pressure pills may be required for Mike Ramos at this point)

Noel

[FJ1100mjk]

Your harangue was anticipated, and has been duly noted by myself and others.

Don't you think it odd that with new seals the slave leaks like a sieve after attacking it with a dremel?

Noel

His problems could be unrelated to his "attacking" the bore with a Dremel. The OP stated that upon subsequent inspection, that he had incorrectly installed the lip seal.

P.S. I'm one of your biggest fans here.

[ribbert]

Your harangue was anticipated, and has been duly noted by myself and others.

Don't you think it odd that with new seals the slave leaks like a sieve after attacking it with a dremel?

Noel

His problems could be unrelated to his "attacking" the bore with a Dremel. The OP stated that upon subsequent inspection, that he had incorrectly installed the lip seal.

P.S. I'm one of your biggest fans here.

Haha, I'd hate to disappoint you.

Didn't he also say he corrected that and it continued to leak?

Took apart for the third time and noticed that I hadn't pulled the lip seal down over the piston, at least I thought that to be the problem. Sealed everything up again and tried, same problem.
Mike

Noel

[FJ1100mjk]

Didn't he also say he corrected that and it continued to leak?

Noel

Yes, I saw that. The point that I was trying to make was, that sometimes the perceived obvious is not always the case. Just how Ed (simi_ed) has so eloquently verbalized in another post (second to last paragraph). http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=11930.0

Going to move on now, and let this sleeping dog lie. 

[ELIMINATOR]

I see your point ribbert.

Those who are mechanically naieve, may read posts and make wrong assumptions. What someone writes, when they have an in depth knowledge of the subject, may not be what a lesser mortal (?) reads?

[simi_ed]

<snip>
Ed, you mentioned just in the last day or so having a "mallet to remove the cylinders". Think about who reads this stuff, a mallet to most is just a hammer, and to many, hammers only come in one size and style. A sure recipe for breaking off fins (and still leave the cylinders firmly in place) and yes, exactly that has happened here following advice offered on the forum.<snip>

Noel

Noel, I'm not disagreeing with your statement, although a minor point was I mentioned was using a mallet to break the head loose, not the cylinder.  Your point is still 100% valid, i.e. a mallet/hammer WILL break fins!  Also, I mentioned that anyone that loses the oilpan drain plug and proceeds to dump the oil while riding has a very small chance of SUCCESSFULLY rebuilding a motor.

As a matter of fact, I posted "

Out of hand, I'd say that anyone that loses a drain plug and dumps their oilpan contents is not qualified to do an engine rebuild.  Please let us know how you fair.   "

I stand by my statement AND with yours!  I expect we'll either see a "How do I fix xxxx that I broke?" or the poster will just drop off the list due to shame and/or excess expense to repair above mentioned Cluster Fluff.  Good advise has been offered (along with questionable) yet the course sees to be "Damn the Torpedoes, Full Speed Ahead!"   Popcorn anyone?

[Riolongo]

Okay, I finally installed the new slave cylinder I received from RPM and the problem is solved, end of story.
Thanks for all the banter.