South Carolina?

[fintip]

Do we have any members near Anderson, SC? In talks with this guy... Yes, I'm insane, and I'm considering another trip...

http://greenville.craigslist.org/mcy/4363101694.html

(Politely trusting no one will try and steal this deal!)

Feedback on this being a good idea or not is welcome. I figure if I sell my two FJ's for about 1200-1500 each (conservative estimate), and presale the full fairing, mirrors, front tire, stock exhaust, and don't have to buy a new petcock for my current bike, won't need to buy chain/sprockets that I was about to need to update... plus I get the late model transmission, forks, and fuel pump setup... And, of course, a rebuilt/high compression engine... With great cosmetics (even if it isn't my ideal scheme)...

One way ticket is $220ish. Thousand mile drive back through the lovely south, $115 in gas about. Maybe I'll take some long roads and make that 200.  

I happen to have enough saved up at the moment (we just had SXSW and I worked an 80 hour week during that time--pays to be self employed) to pull this off and sell my bikes later.

Am I crazy?
Things I can sell:
  mirrors: $90
+ Fairing: worth $300 I guess
+ front tire: will probably sell, might try to tie down and bring
+ stock exhaust: whatever anyone wants to pay for it, shipping + donation
$400+

Money I won't spend:
  chain & sprockets: $175?
+ petcock: $170
350+

My two current FJ's:
  FJ daily rider
+ FJ project
2400-3500

Gains that justify this:
forks that fit my bluespots/radial MC, 17" wheels, late model transmission forks... and all maintenance items rebuilt (!!!) ad nauseum... Beautiful cosmetic pieces... Low mileage besides being rebuilt with high compression pistons...

Put my givi rack and corbin on it, and bob's your uncle?

(Does wieseco make stock 1200 pistons high compression? Or does this imply that it's a 1315 or 1350? Ad doesn't mention.)

He won't budge on price, says it's a $900 reduction already.

On the other hand, I'm looking through craigslist right now at bikes from 2k-4k, making sure that for this money, it's really what I want... Only thing that possibly caught my eye so far is an '05 R1 for $2800... But I want a bike I can tour on, so as exciting as that would be, it's still not quite me I figure. (Though that's also a deal.) Nothing else is even remotely interesting that I've found...

[jscgdunn]

Go for it!....Can't wait for the next epic write up.

And the bike looks great too.  My son has a black/blue 90 and it looks really good.  We call it Bruise.

Jeff

[fintip]

An example of something else to compare it to: http://austin.craigslist.org/mcy/4419829963.html

FZ750, not in quite as good cosmetic condition, and not rebuilt... $100 more than this one. (Also not nearly as comfortable.)

[aviationfred]

Go for it Kyle, 

Post both of yours up for sale on Craigslist and eBay. Then go get the 90'.


Fred

[Country Joe]

Go for it!....Can't wait for the next epic write up.

And the bike looks great too.  My son has a black/blue 90 and it looks really good.  We call it Bruise.

Jeff

Kyle,
That one is pretty slick looking, I really like the look of the lower fairing. You know what you have to do....


Jeff
That is exactly what I have called my 1990.
Black and blue and none too pretty.

Joe

[FJscott]

If you can swing it, Do it. it sure is a pretty Bike. I love the Black and Blues.

Scott

[fintip]

SELLER: Just to let you know, the dollar figure will stand, the current price is a 900 dollar reduction. BTW, my name is Eric, I am a retired preacher/seminary professor. I worked professionally as a motorcycle mechanic when I was your age. 12:12 PM
Me: My name is Kyle, nice to meet you. I was hoping to get it down a little, as traveling and coordinating all of this is a lot for me, but I'll keep chewing it over and talking with some people I trust. 12:51 PM
SELLER: Kyle, it is worth every penny. There is a thousand in the engine alone. 12:54 PM
SELLER: It is also far faster than any fj you have previously ridden. 12:55 PM
Me: You said 6500 total; if only 1k is in the engine, could you give me an idea of where the rest of the money is? I know those bearings and rebuild kits add up, haha. Looked like it had braided lines on there too? 1:46 PM
Me: Were the wieseco's 1200, or did you bore it out to 1315 or 1350? 1:46 PM
SELLER: Every seal and bearing was replaced except one bearing for the starter and I mean every seal and bearing! 1:50 PM
SELLER: Wiseco kit was for high compression which is about 1251 or somewhere there abouts. The 1k I meantioned was the boring and kit and gasket set. I forgot about the bearing set for the crank. 1:56 PM
SELLER: Oil pump was replaced as well 1:58 PM
SELLER: I have a box somewhere with all the receipts, but was afraid to count them all up. 1:59 PM
SELLER: New wrist pins, fuel pump, all new guides for cam chain, new tensioner, replaced all studs for the cylinder and heads, stock ones were prone to stretching with 12.1 to 1 compression. 2:18 PM
SELLER: I looked for the kit online and it appears they're not offering that kit anymore. It was a 2.0 mm over kit with the high compression pistons. The valve springs were changed out with a set of racing springs from APE or RPM, can't remember which. rpmracingca.com

[aviationfred]

From the conversation, my bullshit meter is not going off. 

At the very end, he gives a reference to RPM. I would give Randy a call and see if he remembers a customer in SC that did an engine rebuild.

Fred

[fintip]

I don't know guys, it's a lot of money... If he would go to at least 3k even, I'd probably do it...

I think I'm the only person here that enjoys thinking like this, so if this just annoys you, go ahead and ignore...

If you are interested, though, play the hypotheticals game with me:

http://fayar.craigslist.org/mcy/4381318926.html

Non runner '89, one thousand dollars, should just be gummed up carbs. (Would need a trailer to pick it up and bring it to East Texas where I have family, where I'd clean the carbs and get it running to take home). Let's look at my list, modified for that one:

Things I can sell:
   mirrors: $90
+ Fairing: worth $300 I guess
+ front tire: will probably sell, might try to tie down and bring
+ stock exhaust: whatever anyone wants to pay for it, shipping + donation
-400 (Does come with a Corbin+backrest, though.)

Money I won't spend:
   chain & sprockets: $175?
+ petcock: $170
350+ (still true)

My FJ project:
1200-1700

Costs:
were: 3400 + 240 plane ticket (after taxes, guessing) + 125 gas getting home + 75 food (will couch surf or camp, so no housing cost)= 3900~? [ then subtract 400 for sold parts, making it 3500 again]
Now: 900 (conservative bargaining estimate) + $100 getting to him (family semi-close might give me a ride if I drove out there) + 75 gas getting home + $300 carb rebuild (parts and my own labor, estimate) + more risk? + misc costs there and back, another $100? + basic fork rebuild $80 = $1600~?

So about $1900 more gets me all the bearings/seals replaced [and rebuilt hydraulic systems, and braided lines, etc.], costmetics, and low mileage rebuilt upgraded engine (and a fun trip). To be sure, it's much cheaper than doing all of that on my own, but can I afford to spend my money on this? Thinking thinking thinking...

Gains that justify this:
forks that fit my bluespots/radial MC, 17" wheels, late model transmission forks... and all maintenance items rebuilt (!!!) ad nauseum... Beautiful cosmetic pieces... Low mileage besides being rebuilt with high compression pistons...

On the other hand, I would almost certainly *never* in the next decade be able to do this kind of thorough maintenance on my own--and I'd like not do it as well. So I'd have to pay someone. (Would they do it for $1900? What does it even cost to rebuild an engine to that spec? How much is just a brand new FJ engine for legends racing?)

[jscgdunn]

Kyle,
In my opinion, the 400 is probably less than what you spend getting it home.  You were able to rationalize it all before and the alternatives are not comparisons at all.  The 1,000 bike is a PROJECT...just like you own...(not that there is anything wrong with that!)

But....
The 90 is the real deal with a jacked up motor and has been rebuilt from stem to stern, and brakes probably even work.    The hundreds of hours the PO put into it is not counted in all his bills.   You would have all those hours as well to get the '86s even close.

Even if you can salvage $2000 you have a very nice piece.

Jeff

[FJ_Hooligan]

Kyle,
Have you ever ridden a first gen FZ-1?  They are very FJ-like in the ergos and the motor makes plenty of power.  A friend of mine has an '02 FZ and we trade rides all the time.  It's a little more nimble than the FJ and just as comfortable (in fact, I find the riding position a little too upright).  I've seen some good prices and low mileage units.

But that is a nice price for what appears to be a very nice FJ...

[andyb]

Man, the FJ looks so very different with a full fairing on it.  Almost reminiscent of a ZX11 in the lines, really a good look.


<edit>

The lower fairing (which I'd be one of the interested parties on buying, possibly) you'll have a hard time getting too much for.  Mostly because it'll be pricy to ship, so to maximize your profit you'll have to sell locally, to a smaller market.  Just thinking ahead.

[JMR]

 How can you live without a Vance & Heinz exhaust. I have to wonder if he was writing the description while putting ketchup on some fries.

[ribbert]

Kyle, Freds bullshit meter might not be registering but mine is near redline.

Both the ad and his conversation with you send off a lot of alarms.
Retired preacher/seminary professor (trustworthy) Professional mechanic (knows his stuff) Fastest bike you've ever ridden (gotta have it!) Racing parts, high compression etc (gotta have it even more)
Major price reduction already (must be a good deal) Don't want to sell it (must be a beauty) ... but way to fast for me (yeah!!) Hasn't been raced (but suggests that it could be)

The things that don't sit right with me are:
Why a complete engine rebuild at 15,000 miles including big end and main bearings, head studs and new oil pump.
Why go to the expense of boring out such a low mileage motor.
Why build an engine with racing parts when he admits to being an old fart that only commutes 4 miles a day and then sell it because it's too fast.
Why sell a bike because it's too fast anyway. That's what the throttle is for.
Why did the rest of the bike require restoration to "factory spec" at such a low mileage.
150 HP?? He needs to put his other hand back on the handle bars.
Has a box of receipts somewhere (and I doubt he can he lay his hands on them at the minute) but afraid to add them up. Reeeaally.
Did all that detailed work but can't remember what the engine capacity is.

Am I cynical and suspicious - yes.
Why? experience.

I have been buying vehicles all my life, for myself, for immediate and extended family, friends, friends of friends etc (that's what happens when you're the only mechanic they know) and for a considerable number of years, for business.
You get a feel for sellers.
Everything this guy says could be legitimate, but it sounds more like bullshit to me, unless he has some very sound documentation and answers to some of the questions above.
If he can satisfy you that all his claims are true, great.

I accept nothing the seller tells me that can't be verified. This engine could be bone stock and never touched, how would you know until after you bought it, if ever?

Kyle, didn't you recently buy a bike over the net based on the sellers description that turned out to be not so good?

I have looked at two FJ's in the last week, the ads suggested they were very similar in condition. On inspection, one was an absolute dog without a single redeeming feature, the other a real gem and a rare find (bought) the sort of bike you dream of finding but end up settling on a compromise. The seller descriptions and photos suggested they were much the same.

And don't get me started on buying bikes and cars over the net sight unseen..........

Noel (resident wet blanket)

[fintip]

I understand you skepticism Noel, and I'm also sharing some of it. He mentioned he was a mechanic probably because I asked who did the work previously.

I wondered about the rebuild as well, but I assume he just took it on as a project. "Because he could", which is why lots of old guys work on bikes, it seems to me. He finished the rebuild two years ago and 7k miles ago; perhaps it's not unreasonable for a 57 year old man to just feel too old for a bike? I had offered 2750, he had just said 'no'.

I presume when he says he has a box of receipts, he can provide it. I can imagine a guy selling a bike like this, knowing he can't get his money out of it, not wanting to make himself miserable by realizing how much he really put into it.

150hp (from 130, which was crank number) sounds reasonable from a minor compression and capacity increase, no?

This guy is making very specific claims, whereas the guy in my prior poor experience was very general and vague, and gave off much clearer warning signs--he backed down little by little over the phone, giving stuff away bit by bit, but I kept assuming that was the end of it. This guy on the other hand stands by every word he said, and he said plenty.

I do find it odd that his reason for selling is 'it's too fast', that's probably one of the things that bothers me the most. I told him I was planning on flying out there and driving it back, partially hoping to get him to 'give' if there would be any reason that wouldn't work out, because you'd have to be a serious asshole to leave someone stranded like that.

This is also a bike at a premium price, not a low price like the last one.

Just playing devil's advocate with you Noel, I appreciate your advice greatly.