89 FJ1200 engine and gearbox rebuild

[DeltaFlyer]

...and so it begins







Yet another rebuild like so many others here.... but this time I'm turning the spanners instead of sitting back and enjoying reading about someone else's rebuild!   as you can see I've got all the way down to removing the carbs, which I'm sire will garner a collective yawn here but its further than I have ever delved into this bike, and not without a measure of trepidation.

And speaking of the bike...
She's a 1989 FJ1200 with 164,000km on the dial (it might be 264,000 I don't know). She is well maintained, although not the prettiest looking example as she is a daily commuter and general workhorse, but in very good condition overall, but on the way back into Sydney after a thousand km long weekend in the southern highlands she started jumping out of first gear, just like the known 2nd gear problem in earlier models, so I've decided that since I'll have to drop the engine and split the case I might as well do everything else I've been planning on doing for a while now.

Compression is a little down, she burns a bit more oil than she should, and is a little smoky at start up, so I'm thinking a bore/hone with one size up pistons (probably a wiseco kit). I'll go over the head and do whatever needs done there, replace the noisy cam chain, probably the starter chain too, and generally look at everything else and replace as necessary.

I've already contacted Randy about the gearbox parts, and I'll probably get a bunch of goodies from him as well... oiled foam air filter, spin on oil filter, the large oil radiator kit, and upgrade the clutch spring which is starting to slip under heavy load.

I'm confident to undertake the rebuild, especially with access to the wealth of knowledge documented in this forum.... and I may need to ask a few questions along the way. I'm a newbie at this, so please be gentle when I inevitably ask all the silly questions.

Cheers,
Gabe.

[DeltaFlyer]

...forgot to mention - the accelerator and choke cables are frayed at the carb end, plus the accelerator cables are quite sticky so I've probably saved myself being stranded somewhere with a broken cable!

I must admit, I'm not in the habit of doing regular maintenance on those cables. My bad. That's not going to be the case in future.

They are now on the 'replace' list.

[movenon]

Nice start.  Keep up the good posts as you go.  I am looking into doing some top end work in the future so will be following your project.  Good time to upgrade or improve a few things for sure.  Last year I did the clutch mod and the clutch feels great.  I ordered a shift kit but as of yet haven't installed it, just to busy with other things on the bike. You might look into that as you are going to have everything apart.

If you rebuild the carbs it is a good time to install new Allen head screws and get rid of those JIS screws and get rid of that stock FJ air box with UniPods.

Conversion of the old Yamaha cartrage oil filter system to a spin on filter is nice.  I have done all of those and wouldn't think of going back.

Keep up the posts !
Cheers George

[rktmanfj]

This is gonna be great!   

[FJscott]

Nice start.  Keep up the good posts as you go.  I am looking into doing some top end work in the future so will be following your project.  Good time to upgrade or improve a few things for sure.  Last year I did the clutch mod and the clutch feels great.  I ordered a shift kit but as of yet haven't installed it, just to busy with other things on the bike. You might look into that as you are going to have everything apart.

If you rebuild the carbs it is a good time to install new Allen head screws and get rid of those JIS screws and get rid of that stock FJ air box with UniPods.

Conversion of the old Yamaha cartrage oil filter system to a spin on filter is nice.  I have done all of those and wouldn't think of going back.

Keep up the posts !
Cheers George

George,
are you planning on top end work out of necessity or trying to squeeze more ponies out of her? I am curious because although a lot is mentioned on the forum regarding upgrades to just about every other component to the FJ but there is little regarding the top-end.
usually there is a lot to be gained in working on the heads.

Scott

[movenon]

Nice start.  Keep up the good posts as you go.  I am looking into doing some top end work in the future so will be following your project.  Good time to upgrade or improve a few things for sure.  Last year I did the clutch mod and the clutch feels great.  I ordered a shift kit but as of yet haven't installed it, just to busy with other things on the bike. You might look into that as you are going to have everything apart.

If you rebuild the carbs it is a good time to install new Allen head screws and get rid of those JIS screws and get rid of that stock FJ air box with UniPods.

Conversion of the old Yamaha cartrage oil filter system to a spin on filter is nice.  I have done all of those and wouldn't think of going back.

Keep up the posts !
Cheers George

George,
are you planning on top end work out of necessity or trying to squeeze more ponies out of her? I am curious because although a lot is mentioned on the forum regarding upgrades to just about every other component to the FJ but there is little regarding the top-end.
usually there is a lot to be gained in working on the heads.

Scott

Scott:
Here is where I at.  My compression is 125psi across the board and I believe that my valve seals could be replaced.  As to the compression I am not to alarmed about,  it runs good enough to get me into trouble.  It actually runs really good.  As to the seals they are 20 years old and the bike smokes some at start up.  Could also be valve stems leaking down.

Next winter I want to pull the top end do an inspection and repair as required.  If there is a little more power that I can get out of it reasonably then I will do that.  IMO An FJ that is running in spec's is a pretty good machine.  Note also that the compression gage I used isn't calibrated and could be high or low.  But what ever it is it is even across the cylinders.

As to the gains modifying the top end I have to deferr to those that have been there and done that.  I have read about adjusting the cam timing and other things but have no experience with it on the FJ.  I have done some porting and clean up in the years past with other bikes and cars and now take a position that you can do more harm than good. 

Engine related I am pretty happy with the mild stuff.  I have Cobra F1s that I repacked, UniPods, increased the jetting a little, advanced the igniton about 3 degrees, did the clutch mod. I have a shift kit on the shelf yet to be installed. I am running 18/38 for sprockets and as soon as I get another ZZZ rivet link I am going to a 17/38.  Nothing wrong with the 18/38, I am just playing around.

DeltaFlyer:  Keep up the good work !! Some of us need the education 
George

[JMR]

Nice start.  Keep up the good posts as you go.  I am looking into doing some top end work in the future so will be following your project.  Good time to upgrade or improve a few things for sure.  Last year I did the clutch mod and the clutch feels great.  I ordered a shift kit but as of yet haven't installed it, just to busy with other things on the bike. You might look into that as you are going to have everything apart.

If you rebuild the carbs it is a good time to install new Allen head screws and get rid of those JIS screws and get rid of that stock FJ air box with UniPods.

Conversion of the old Yamaha cartrage oil filter system to a spin on filter is nice.  I have done all of those and wouldn't think of going back.

Keep up the posts !
Cheers George

George,
are you planning on top end work out of necessity or trying to squeeze more ponies out of her? I am curious because although a lot is mentioned on the forum regarding upgrades to just about every other component to the FJ but there is little regarding the top-end.
usually there is a lot to be gained in working on the heads.

Scott

On any of these old bikes that holds true. Unfortunately the FJ doesn't have a very good port but it can certainly be improved. Much harder to extract meaningful extra power from modern heads....they are, in general,  very very good from the Japanese manufactures.
Or...throw this on   http://sell.dragbike.com/detail.asp?id=3398&n=Vortex-2-Valve-Head-to-fit-FJ1100     

[Joe Sull]

Sounds like a great project. I'd love to see some pics inside the engine. Take as many pic as you can. Make it part of the project. They'll aid you greatly when it comes time to reassemble. After a period of time you'll forget how little things go together.
I thought it would take me 2 weeks to assemble mine but it only took 3 days. I brought my computer in the shop and between my pics, the service manual and parts microfiche, http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?board=35.0 , it went together easy. I did get hung up on electrical without enough pics of the harness but a friend here helped me out with his pics.
Good luck, Joe 

[DeltaFlyer]

Dropped the engine yesterday with help from a friend, and proceeded with the dismantling...

It came out relatively easily.



The top cover came off first...


then the head...

...which was a nightmare to remove. It was stuck solid and didn't want to budge.

There was some corrosion around the nuts and one stud came out of the crank case as the nut didn't budge, which brings me to the first little challenge.

Some of the studs have (had) a protective rubber coating which has long perished and exposed the stud to the elements, hence the corrosion.

Six of the twelve studs are quite corroded as you can see from the pic. I have ordered new nuts from RPM but couldn't find any OEM studs anywhere. I did however find a set of heavy duty aftermarket studs by APE. The difference is that the aftermarket studs don't have any protective coating at all.

I have found a 'paint on' plastic at my local auto parts, it's called "liquid tape" and meant to replace electrical tape. But I don't know how it would go at higher temps. What other options are there to protect new studs? perhaps multiple coats of high temp paint?

Also, how do you grip new studs to thread them into the crank case without damaging the surface?

I haven't begun to dismantle the heads as I don't have a spring compressor yet. I'll probably make one out of a long socket. Here's a bunch of pics that tell the story...

combustion chamber 1...


combustion chamber 2...


combustion chamber 3...


combustion chamber 4...


There's plenty of carbon buildup to clean out, but as far as I can see the valves look serviceable with no signs of overheating or burning. The spark plugs are a nice powdery tan color, which looks healthy.

The pistons look OK also, with no signs of abuse or overheating.

[DeltaFlyer]

continued...

There's still some hone marks visible, although they disappear to perfectly smooth further down the bore...



The piston skirts look good too...



The tale of the tape...
I ran the micrometer over the cams and pistons. Here's the results:

The cams look to be in spec except for the highlighted measurements. The question is, do I replace the cams? Bearing in mind that this is not a sports bike but a commuter/tourer and I am primarily interested in reliability plus longevity. So I'm indifferent to these numbers costing a few horsepower, however will it cause problems for the valves or anything else? ....cams aren't cheap to replace! Since I can always replace them in the future without having to drop the engine out again, are these still useable?

The camshaft bearing journals look nice and shiny with no signs of pitting or spalling. However, I'm waiting for the arrival of a plastigauge set before I can check the bearing oil clearance. The cam chain sprockets look like new.

The pistons are below minimum diameter so will be replaced with one size up, plus a bore & hone.

There was oil weeping from under one corner of the camshaft cover and from where the oil cooler hoses exit the crank case, no surprising with a 25 year old motor. But otherwise every seal is still oil tight.

From what I've seen so far this engine has been well looked after, and there's no signs of abuse, oil starvation, overheating, ect. It's simply showing normal wear through normal use, so I think it's a good place from which to start a rebuild.

Next I'll strip down the head and measure everything, then split the crank case.

Orders have been placed with RPM, and other suppliers, with more yet to be purchased.... stay tune folks, the best is yet to come!

[DeltaFlyer]

About the carbs...

The previous owner - a long time motorcycle touring enthusiast nd a generally nice guy, had the carbs professionally rebuilt less than a year before I bought the bike. He had all the receipts and the parts that had been replaced, including all four sliders, I think they're called? (those expensive cylindrical things with that thin black diaphragm). So I won't be touching them except for re-jetting as necessary.

I did a balance on them a year ago (they were only very slightly out) and they have stayed perfectly in tune ever since.... one less thing to worry about.

[DeltaFlyer]

Sounds like a great project. I'd love to see some pics inside the engine. Take as many pic as you can. Make it part of the project. They'll aid you greatly when it comes time to reassemble. After a period of time you'll forget how little things go together.
I thought it would take me 2 weeks to assemble mine but it only took 3 days. I brought my computer in the shop and between my pics, the service manual and parts microfiche, http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?board=35.0 , it went together easy. I did get hung up on electrical without enough pics of the harness but a friend here helped me out with his pics.
Good luck, Joe  

I enjoyed your build thread. You did a lot of work, more than I will be doing. I'm not in the least concerned in the cosmetics as she is a daily commuter. I'm not even going to paint the motor before reinstalling it. So long as she's mechanically as good as I can possibly keep her, and none of the fairings buzz or rattle, I'm happy.

Cheers,
Gabe.

[DeltaFlyer]

...

I ordered a shift kit but as of yet haven't installed it, just to busy with other things on the bike. You might look into that as you are going to have everything apart.

...

Keep up the posts !
Cheers George

What does that shift kit do for the bike? ...would you happen to have a link to any info about it?

Cheers,
Gabe.

[DeltaFlyer]

...advanced the igniton about 3 degrees...

DeltaFlyer:  Keep up the good work !! Some of us need the education 
George

Thanks for the words of encouragement, George.

about the timing advance, what difference, if any, did you notice after that mod? I've read good things about it and am considering it if it's worth the effort.

[DeltaFlyer]

Some more detail pics...

Camshaft bearing surfaces in the head look OK, with just a little bit of scoring, but I can't be sure if it's in spec until after the plastigauge test...




No pics of the bearing caps, but they look to be in the same condition.

Some signs of wear evident on the cam lobes...





Do those cam lobes look like they may be worn through the surface hardening? if so, could I expect accelerated wear rate if I were to continue using them?

Timing chain & sprockets...



Clutch...

I've taken the clutch and basket out but I'll go over it tomorrow in more detail and include it in the next post.

If you guys spot something I'm in the process of screwing up, please let me know! I'm learning as I go here, which is why it's going so slow.

I think that's pretty much all I have for now.

Cheers,
Gabe.