Soupy's adjustable links.......

[DB Cooper]

Hey Folks.
I'm doing the Honda shock mod on my '88, and need to make up some longer dogbones.  I'm looking at about 20mm longer than stock. There is only one metal supplier here in town, and he doesn't have anything close to what I need. He says he'll have to cut it from plate stock, or order it in with a minimum quantity and the cost is really stupid.  If I don't find an alternative to this supplier and if I'm going to spend that kind of money, I'll consider some of Soupy's adjustable links.  I'm looking at the size of them, and I'm wondering if the center stand will clear the links? Can anyone here chime in and let me know?
Thanks
Kevin   

[andyb]

Clears fine on mine.

If you ask them nice, they'll make them to whatever size you need.

[movenon]

Hey Folks.
I'm doing the Honda shock mod on my '88, and need to make up some longer dogbones.  I'm looking at about 20mm longer than stock. There is only one metal supplier here in town, and he doesn't have anything close to what I need. He says he'll have to cut it from plate stock, or order it in with a minimum quantity and the cost is really stupid.  If I don't find an alternative to this supplier and if I'm going to spend that kind of money, I'll consider some of Soupy's adjustable links.  I'm looking at the size of them, and I'm wondering if the center stand will clear the links? Can anyone here chime in and let me know?
Thanks
Kevin   

Your center stand most likely will not clear. I had to remove mine. I changed to another shock and reinstalled mine. Glad to have it back.  I made my bones out of steel from the local home supply.  I have made about 4 of them with no problems. They are stronger than the stock bones.
George
George

[DB Cooper]

 
The last ones I had made up to raise the back were made from 4130 or 4140 chromoly.  I'm not a lightweight, and I'm hesitant to make them from standard bar stock. I suspect the forces on the bones are pretty high. Anyone else here use 1/4" stock? May be something to consider.
Kevin     

[movenon]

The last ones I had made up to raise the back were made from 4130 or 4140 chromoly.  I'm not a lightweight, and I'm hesitant to make them from standard bar stock. I suspect the forces on the bones are pretty high. Anyone else here use 1/4" stock? May be something to consider.
Kevin     

I understand that but look at the stock bones they are thin, stamped steel.  I weigh 225 and have have the bike on a scale with a total gross weight of 900 lbs loaded. (overloaded) No problem. I strongly suspect the Yamaha is using plain old mild steel.  A lot of Honda's are aluminum.
I increased the dimension around the 12mm holes. The bar I am using is 1 3/8 X 1/4.

I have also made some from cold rolled steel but frankly found it over kill.  Here is a company that will send you short lengths that I have used before.
http://www.metalsdepot.com/products/toolsteel.phtml?page=a2flat&LimAcc=%20&aident=

Take a good look at the stock bones, they are not all that strong IMO.  But all that said it's you on the bike and not me and I understand.
Take a look at Metals Depot's site. They do sell in small length's.

[DB Cooper]

Thanks George.
If you've been successful with the milder steel,  I think I'll give it a shot and keep a close eye on them. It sure will beat the cost of the 4130 I was looking at, and the cost of Soupy's Links.
K

[Arnie]

I'll add my vote with George's.  I've been making and using dogbones of various lengths since 1998 on my FJ.
I've used either 1/4" or 6mm flat mild steel bar, and had no failures, and no elongation of the holes.
I too, am no lightweight at ~225lbs before getting dressed or having my morning coffee and toast.

Arnie

BTW  When I put the F4i shock on, I had to remove the centerstand.

[ribbert]

For those with an appreciation of precision engineering, here are mine. Made from a piece of scrap plate. I load my bike up with luggage, fuel bladders, oil, water etc and travel a lot of rough and unmade roads, they get a pounding. I check them periodically and they're fine.



Noel

[andyb]

I used aluminum to make dogbones for the FJ and other bikes in the stable, but ended up going with Soupy's on the FJ.  Mine are adjustable from +0.5" to -2.5" or so in height, and I've yet to have clearance issues with anything at either extreme.  (Becomes damned difficult to get the bike on the centerstand when it's lowered, though.)

The big complaint is the cost.  They aren't cheap for what they are.  But they do work and give me basically infinite options when I'm deciding how I want to set things up.  Lowered 2.5" for the racetrack?  Lowered an inch for the street (short legs!).  Raised as high as they go for some scratching or for some extra clearance with heavy luggage or a pillion?  No worries in any case.  Vastly superior to a multi-hole link, which is what the ZX9 is wearing (from aluminum, natch).  I run the multiple hole end at the bottom, because it's then easier to access, but to adjust it, I still have to hang the rear of the bike from the ceiling hook of the garage, tension it exactly, remove the bolt, adjust the height carefully, and replace the bolt.  Not something you can do on the road, for example.  The soupy links just need a pair of 3/4" wrenches and the job is quick and easy.  With the multi-hole links in their "street" (tail kicked up slightly from stock) position, the extra hole hangs down.  You wouldn't think you'd hit it, but in normal (-ish) and reasonably sane riding I've managed to bevel them slightly.

Adjustability is lovely to me.  If you're just going to set the bike up for a reasonable compromise and tend not to do such a varied selection of things in your riding, a single height would be fine.  Buy some extra material and make several sets of various heights, plus or minus, and it'll help you get it dead on to what works best for you and your riding.

[movenon]

Adding to what Andy said, buy some extra material.  In fact today I am making another set to fix a clearance problem with a R6 shock conversion.  Take your time on the measurements you will be surprised at how much a few mm makes in the ride height.  I am talking 2 or 3 mm's.

The first set I made last winter with a f4i shock I raised the rear end up to about 1 1/4 inch's and for me it seemed to make the steering to quick and it felt unstable in certain conditions.  I adjusted the front forks but really never got it where I wanted it.  Could just be me.  Or other problems.  I just know enough about suspensions design to give me a head ache.....

As a note I tried 2 or 3 length's of dog bones with the f4i conversion and found that each change seems to effect the preload enough to feel the difference. My best guess is that it was the leverage change which also effects the spring rate requirement.

The set I am making today I am raising the rear up about 3/4 inch. There is something to be said about adjustable bones.  As far as making them it takes me about 30 mins to make a set.  I always prime and paint mine so that is what takes the most time, waiting for them to dry.
George

[movenon]

Thanks George.
If you've been successful with the milder steel,  I think I'll give it a shot and keep a close eye on them. It sure will beat the cost of the 4130 I was looking at, and the cost of Soupy's Links.
K

I advise you to use the 1 1/2 inch wide steel. The weakest point is the material between the 12mm hole edge to the left and right side.  Also as good practice round all square edges and debur the 12mm hole edges.  Just remove the sharp edges.  I use a 15/32 bit for the holes.  Close enough for 12mm.
George


Please note the 1 1/2 wide.  Earlier I said 1 3/8.. That was wrong.  Go with the wider material...

[andyb]

The first set I made last winter with a f4i shock I raised the rear end up to about 1 1/4 inch's and for me it seemed to make the steering to quick and it felt unstable in certain conditions.  I adjusted the front forks but really never got it where I wanted it.  Could just be me.  Or other problems.  I just know enough about suspensions design to give me a head ache.....

As a note I tried 2 or 3 length's of dog bones with the f4i conversion and found that each change seems to effect the preload enough to feel the difference. My best guess is that it was the leverage change which also effects the spring rate requirement.

To add to that, you may find that different tire selection can change the stability of your altered suspension attitude quite dramatically.  A rounded tire can become sharp and crisp, but an aggressive tire may become downright twitchy.  If you've got a couple sets sitting in the garage, it's not a big deal to swap them around after a tire change when things feel a bit off.

With the turnbuckle links of course no silliness is required.  A tweak here or there and away you go.  The only thing to be concerned with is that when you lengthen them to lower things, you need to be very aware of how much is still screwed into the turnbuckles.  Having an inch of threads hidden looks exactly the same as having it only 2mm into the center, and one of those is very unsafe indeed.  I just measured before I put them on, then set them to their maximum length and installed them.  Once I knew how much could be exposed (just measure) it's simple to not exceed that.

That said if you are looking to lower it for the (quite surprising!) amount of anti-wheelie accelerative gains, there are diminishing returns.  -2" is probably all most people would be able to use without a very delicate clutch hand.

[Pat Conlon]

I have Soupy's on both bikes, a great addition, very handy, however and let me give you warning.

When you adjust the links, do yourself a favor, take some extra time and take them off the bike and adjust them on a bench with so you can get a dead nuts measurement to assure that both links are the same length.
Never a problem with the strap iron links when you drill them together.

The swing arm bearings are 'very sensitive' and unequal length links will damage them.

Don't ask....

[DB Cooper]

Thanks for all the info - love this place!
I picked up some metal this morning, a 4 foot piece of 1/4 by 1 1/4 for  lots of mock ups, and a shorter piece of 5/16 x 1 1/2 for the final size.
I have the G-SXR rear wheel mod, and previously had shorter dog bones to get the rear tire 3/4" of the ground. The F4i shock that I have with the clevis mounted is about 9 -10 mm longer than the FJ shock. I'm hoping that by keeping it as close to the original length as possible, I'll be able to keep my c-stand.
Kevin

[DB Cooper]

As a side note, this is how I'm doing up the clevis for the F4i shock.
The sleeve is machined from 4130, and just slips over the body of the shock. The pinch clamp will hold it in place. If this works out, I'll do a write up with pictures and dimensions when it's all said and done.
Also, I don't have to, but I'd like to put a longer hose on to hide the canister. Has anyone ever recharged one of these shocks? I suspect there is a schrader type valve under the cap at the bottom of the canister, but I'm not sure. A buddy (previous owner) is an AME and has access to nitrogen to recharge if it can be done.