Pre-Season Carb Cleaning

[MidwestFJ1100]

It's almost riding season here in Ohio ... well maybe a couple months off, but I'm still excited!  

Anyway, the last carbs I ever pulled were on my 75 XS650 ... easy. So for this double-the-cylinder beast, I downloaded the lovely PDF by Raforth. I've read through it a couple times at work when I've had no Honda's to work on and today with this heatwave of 45 degrees, I decided to try.

Getting the airbox out was a complete pain. The boots are old and hard and really didn't want to cooperate. Upon removal, I found a quarter sized hole in the top of it towards the back where the tank bolts go into the subframe. Furthermore, a PO decided that the PCV hose didn't belong on the airbox and left it lay on the heat shield below ... now it's rock hard and covered in oil. I removed the carb assembly and found ... gas. Gas in the butterfly openings, gas in the carb holders, gas on the intake boots and gas on the heat shield above the trans. WTF. I've already done the petcock 'fix' and I've made SURE it does not leak. Also, I blew into the main fuel feed line ... it sounds kind of gargly. Like a cauldron boiling. Also checked my diaphragms. They all hold while up and the port is blocked ... whew.

So if you would, help an automotive technician get his bike sorted! Pretty please! I even took pictures!  

Fuel on the heat shield


PCV Hose


Carb Bodies (#1 looks the same as the rest)


Wet Carb Holders (Intake boots look similar)

[movenon]

Sounds like you now have a project. The air box is pretty easy to get out if you take the two side bolts out of the sub frame and let it drop down. If it were me I would store the air box and filter.  I would (and did):

Put a set of UniPod filters on from RPM.
Throw away the PVC tube and relplace with a new hose and end filter also available from RPM.
Now for the carbs....

Best to do a total rebuild. Here is another good read on rebuilding the carbs with pictures

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4281.0
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9560.0


If you do not want to do a total rebuild then if I were you I would install new needle and seats plus O rings, remove and clean the jets and passages as best you can, adjust the float levels and install new bowel gaskets then hope all is well. Close to a "field repair".

Your a mechanic so you should not have any problem they are easy to rebuild BUT as with anything it's the small details that are easy to over look. Lots of help here and pictures.

Also if you have been currently leaking that much gas... change your oil and verify the petcock is shutting off.
George

[Flynt]

install new bowel gaskets then hope all is well...

... and if the shit hits the fan, your gaskets didn't take.   

Frank

[MidwestFJ1100]

I did drop the subframe, it still wasn't a simple removal due to the hardened boots, but it (obviously) did come out. It's also cracked and 'repaired' but I'm not happy with it at all.

I'm not opposed to doing a full rebuild, it's just the unfamiliarity of it all. Give me a 1988-current Honda vehicle and I can do it, but this is foreign territory. It's all of the small bits that are intimidating. I've done it once on my XS twin and they were Mikuni's so I'm sure there isn't much difference.

As far as the pod filters, I would prefer them. They most definitely would breath better than that stock glob of an airbox, but I'm concerned about the jetting. I'm not familiar with that at all.

I am 100% sure my petcock isn't leaking but I'd like to replace it regardless ... I'd rather not catch on fire at a stop light.

Thank you for the links. I'll be sure to immerse myself when I get a chance. I'm tearing down the carbs tomorrow at work during my downtime.

**EDIT** Also, the fuel on the heat shield could be from when I was flopping around the main fuel line while removing the carbs. It's the fuel in the intake boots and carb holders I have no explaination for.

[movenon]

Don't be intimidated, just take it one at time if your are unsure.  Go through the system starting at the petcock. Your problem is probably in the needle seat valve or bowl gasket.  I also note that if you are doing a rebuild take it one step farther and remove the intake manifolds and replace the O rings there. They are cheap and probably could use some new ones.

Doing a total clean and rebuild of the carbs is the way to go if you can.  Randy at RPM can help you with what you need. Give him a call or e mail him.

If your bike runs good and all you are concerned with is the fuel leaking then the needle and seat change out, float level adjust, and bowl gaskets is a good shot at fixing the problem.

Frank,  I have been tapped on that shit before....    Thanks for the correction, my formal education pretty much stopped at the 9th grade. Long story. 
George

[MidwestFJ1100]

The bike ran well last season. By well, I mean tolerable. The idle was less than desired which will probably be fixed by a good cleaning and sync. I tried adjusting the star wheel which helped but was still inconsistent. I would have a slight break up at higher rpm, which from reading this forum, would be caused by a lean condition. I noticed when I started it up a couple weeks ago, it has a pretty sufficient exhaust leak below the lower cowl/scoop fascia.

Randy will be getting an email for some instruction on how to proceed with the pod filter/jetting dilemma. I've dealt with him before with my choke cable issue and he was fantastic.

I gave a quick glance at the bowls, they all look like they are sealing properly (read: no gas or residue on them) but I'll be ordering some gaskets anyway. I'm not sure if they've ever been disassembled or cleaned at this point. 

Again, thanks for all of your input. It will be much appreciated when I'm scooting to work on her in the spring!

[Flynt]

Thanks for the correction...

We all make mistakes...  that was just a funny one for the potty minded as my daughters would say.  No slam intended George.   

Frnak

[movenon]

Thanks for the correction...

We all make mistakes...  that was just a funny one for the potty minded as my daughters would say.  No slam intended George.   

Frnak

I know that Frank  Hope to see you again at the WCR rally 
George

[MidwestFJ1100]

I removed the bowls this morning, but before I noticed a bit of wetness around the bottom side of the throttle opening on the airbox side of #1 and #3. I feel I may have found the root of the leak, but the wetness in the carb holders, bodies and airbox still perplexes me. I haven't started the bike in almost 4 weeks and there was a fairly large amount of fuel left in the four skinny hoses and the two larger hoses between #1/#2 and #3/#4. On a positive note, my 1/4 electric impact driver made removal of the stock screws extremely simple. Not one came even close to striping

So, all I need now is a couple rebuild kits and some advice on how to jet these guys for the pod filters!

[MidwestFJ1100]

Well I've hit an enormous bump. #3 Float post is broken. I went to move the pin (small punch and tiny mallet) and the pin pretty much flew through the first side. I though it was strange because #4 took a little motivation and sure enough the other post fell right off. It looks like its been broken for a while which would explain the abundance of fuel.

So what do I do now? Do I need to replace all of the carbs? Does anyone have an empty carb body they would like to sell? I'm slightly crushed at this point, but I'm glad I know whats going on in my carbs.

[FJmonkey]

A few members have fixed broken float posts a few different ways. The best way in my opinion is to have it micro welded, however finding someone with the equipment near you might be difficult. Others have posted that they bonded it back on. I am not sure if TIG (GTAW) welding will work on that material but it is more common and easier to find shops that do it. I happen to have a set of old carbs in pieces so replacing that body is also an option. It is a shame that solving your mystery is a discovery in a tricky repair job. But solve it you did.

[MidwestFJ1100]

I'm going to do some research on the subject. If I don't come up with a repair I'm comfortable with, I'll send you a PM for that carb body. It's the third from the left. Thank you!

Here's to hoping everything goes smoothly from here, I would hate to get stuck in my car all season.

[movenon]

IMO just replace the carb body.  Check with e bay and Randy at RPM for a start.
If fuel is in the air box you probably have gas in your engine oil also. Check it...

George

[Joe Sull]

May I just add something I learnd here. This neat little trick for getting the carb bank back in those tight little holes.



Slick-as-you-please! A half a crank and then another and it pops in like a tire popping on a bead.
I just ran out and set it to take the pic. You mite center it better than that.

[jscgdunn]

Great idea!  A little oil helps too.