new Qld laws

[ken65]

Just thought id start a thread on the new laws wondering if it has affected anyone on here,  so far it hasnt affected me but i usually ride on my own.   Here' a little episode i have cut and pasted from the SOHC/4 Owners club forums in the Australian section and it sounds like it could have been a group of us..  It's the 1st time ive given it any real thought as i assumed the police were going to target suspected criminals,  i know it's only hearsay but it's food for thought....

Quote    "I know of 5 guys that rode out near Aratula on Saturday for a bike show all on Jap bikes and all over 50 , they were pulled over, searched, had their tattoos documented then the cops let 3 of them go and held the other 2 on the side of the road for another 10 minutes before telling them that "they are not allowed to ride in groups of more than 3, this is happening everywhere at the moment, this is a massive invasion of our rights and the sh1t is about to hit the fan over these draconian laws.."

[Arnie]

I've been amazed that there has not been more outcry at these outrageous laws.
While the intent may be to target "criminal organizations" (bikie gangs) they are written so loosely that anyone can be hauled over, harrassed, intimidated, and abused if they are in a group of more than 3 individuals.
Even if they might be effective (a very doubtful proposition), the amount of crime committed by "bikie gangs" is minimal.  If all "criminal bikie gang" crime ceased tomorrow, the only change to be noticed would be that the pulp press would have to find a new target for hate and fear.
There already exist laws to enable control and prosecute criminal activity, its only the laziness, ineptness, or corruption of the Qld police force which keeps them from being used.
It is a public display of "getting tough on crime" posturing by the Cambell-Newman govt.
This whole episode will end in tears and huge compensation payments for the taxpayers of Qld.
I've been horrified that some here are actually supportive of this neanderthal cretin's posturing.

 

[ken65]

well said Arnie,  here's the new laws, only takes a few minutes to read.

https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/ACTS/2013/13AC047.pdf

[The General]

I've been amazed that there has not been more outcry at these outrageous laws.
While the intent may be to target "criminal organizations" (bikie gangs) they are written so loosely that anyone can be hauled over, harrassed, intimidated, and abused if they are in a group of more than 3 individuals.
Even if they might be effective (a very doubtful proposition), the amount of crime committed by "bikie gangs" is minimal.  If all "criminal bikie gang" crime ceased tomorrow, the only change to be noticed would be that the pulp press would have to find a new target for hate and fear.
There already exist laws to enable control and prosecute criminal activity, its only the laziness, ineptness, or corruption of the Qld police force which keeps them from being used.
It is a public display of "getting tough on crime" posturing by the Cambell-Newman govt.
This whole episode will end in tears and huge compensation payments for the taxpayers of Qld.
I've been horrified that some here are actually supportive of this neanderthal cretin's posturing.

While I`m not completely in agreement with Campbell Newman,(Generally) I am in agreement with "getting tough on crime". I see no other way than this controversial move. However it is fodder to sell media. I know that makes me a target for many judgemental statements, but here I stand. (With me helmet on) Yes there is more than meets the readers eye with this move. (Soooo much more!)
Yes it is about cracking down on organised crime. (Not Bikies) It is also about financing and empowering that crackdown. It is also about the frustration between operational commitment and the Judiciary outcome. I too see big holes and risks, so continue to observe closely the powers at play....while living in hope that justice will protect the true good guys that risk their life for the community. Note: I have no military or Police connection, training or affiliation. The division between hearsay and facts will be enormous imho...hears some interesting stuff: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-31/qld-police-admit-errors-in-anti-bikie-laws/5061908 

[ken65]

I agree general, something needs to be done, but there's a difference between scratching your arse and tearing it to bits.

[roverfj1200]

It is time to clean out the riff raff. To do this we need money and legislation that fits the crime. These gangs be they bikies or just a group of criminals should no longer be allowed to just exist flying below the radar. If you think that these so called MC are not full of crimes you are in fairy land. With police raids turning up weapons and drugs and a lot of members with long rap sheets. Lets just let the police deal with it and if I get stopped and searched so be it..For I ain't packing or carrying drugs.

Anyway it want stop me riding.

Cheers

[ken65]

Your not wrong rover, it sure is time to clean out the riff raff   (why did it take so long to start with, the laws have been in place  forever) and it wont stop me riding either .  How would the members on here who got together for the mapleton muster feel if you were all pulled up, searched, photographed,  then let go in 10 minute intervals in groups of 3,, it would have too taint the experience to a degree . I just hope the cops target the right groups and not ordinary people cause we're easy for them to fill quotas with,  etc.. now they've been told to do their jobs properly, they want to take home their weapons, want body armour and dont want their name on a badge anymore?. mmm

[The General]

I(nteresting recent meeting:

Ulysses Club Inc. - Meeting with the Queensland Minister for Police and Community Safety

Ulysses ClubMeeting with the Queensland Minister for
Police and Community Safety
To Queensland Branch Secretaries,

(This eNewsletter has been sent to QLD Branch Secretaries only. Please pass this information on to your Branch Committee and members.)

The National Committee was invited to a meeting with the Hon. Jack Dempsey MP, in Brisbane last Thursday. The NatCom asked a trusted member living in Brisbane to attend on our behalf and this is the report received from him after the meeting.

Any questions should be directed to the National Committee via National Secretary John Evans at secretary@ulysses.org.au

Report from the meeting.

Attendees:
•    Qld MP, Honourable Jack Dempsey, Minister for Police and Community Safety
     (addressed  meeting)
•    QP Commissioner, Ian Stewart (addressed meeting)
•    QP Deputy Commissioner, Brett Pointing, Commander of Operation Resolute
     (had a couple of comments)
•    QP Superintendent, Mick Nyland, In-charge of Taskforce Maxima
•    QP Superintendent, Jim Keogh, In-charge of Taskforce Gold Coast Take Back.
•    QP Senior Sergeant, Shaun Dillon, Traffic Branch
•    QP Detective Inspector, Terry Lawrence, Taskforce Maxima 
•    3 or 4 other administrative assistants for politician or police
•    Ulysses Club representative
•    Motorcycle Riders Association of Queensland President, Chris Mearns
•    Australian Motorcycle Council representative, Eva Cripps
•    Patriots
•    Harley Owners Group
•    Gasoline Alley -  Harley Davidson shop
•    Diggers Military MC Club
•    Gold Coast Cruisers
•    Brothers in Arms Military Club
•    Military Brotherhood
•    BMW rider rep
•    Others unknown - all up about 20 rider reps.

Purpose of Meeting

Apparent purpose of meeting as expressed by Minister:
1. Open up lines of communication with legitimate riders/groups and he wants "clearer line of communication with recreational riders".
2. Express government position that recreational riders were NOT the target of these laws and their recent activities.  That the focus is entirely on criminal groups and their associates.
(Note: The meeting did NOT address the new laws.)

Riders General Comments

Generally rider reps expressed the obvious concerns, with a few very good examples of legitimate riders interactions with Police that showed they were being either poorly treated and caught up in this frenzy of activity by police across the state.  There was little focus during the meeting on the new laws, except possible comment by Motorcycle Riders Association of Queensland  President Chris Mearns and Australian Motorcycle Council representative, Eva Cripps. The focus of rider questions was on what can riders do to ensure we are left alone to be free to ride without being hassled.  What are our rights when being pulled over? Do we have to allow searches, etc? Concerns were also raised that the public perception of all riders is being destroyed by the lack of differentiation (also by the media) between recreational riders and the OMGs regardless of the Government's $800K advertising campaign.

I contributed comment on behalf of the Ulysses Club on a few occasions, focussing on:

•    We don't support criminal behaviour;

•    We all do a lot of charity work and bring in many millions of dollars to the state with our AGM events, giving the recent Maryborough AGM as an example of the numbers;

•    That NatCom may consider whether to hold future AGM events in Qld whilst their members are so concerned about these issues. 

I asked the Police Commissioner what briefings his officers were getting state-wide on differentiating between OMG members/associates and obvious recreational riders, holding up our logo and pointing out it should be clear to his officers and we should be left alone! I also asked (partly in humour) that the government mount another $800K advertising campaign supporting recreational riders.

The bottom line was basically that recreational riders are very concerned that they are collateral damage in all this and wanted to know what could be done to avoid these problems.

Police Minister's main comments

In addition to opening remarks on the reason for the meeting, the Minister said he wanted to develop a strategy (develop solutions, set outcomes with dates) to alleviate concerns of recreational legitimate riders, their clubs (motorcycle and social clubs).  He even used the words, "establish a partnership with legal riders, the good guys.  We want more people buying bikes, more businesses.  its a passion."  He also commented that the Police Commissioner rides bike.

Police Commissioner Ian Stewarts comments

He explained that over the last 3 to 4 weeks they've had the entire force working on this (unlike under previous government and with Taskforce Hydra). That with this intense level of activity, there was sure to be some events involving recreational riders caught up. He apologised for some of the interactions that had occurred with his officers pulling motorcyclists up.  He said the focus was on 1100 members of OMGs, 2500 known associates of the 26 declared gangs, but also their family members or other related businesses people.  He said they were like chameleons and had NO respect.  There was some suggestion that the obvious initial intense level of activity would apparently drop off as they continued to gather intelligence. 

In response to comments from reps about police differentiating between us and OMG members (and specifically to my question on their briefings), Ian Stewart asked us to look around the room at each other and said most of us look like OMG members and so until his officers were "up close and personal", it was difficult to see the difference.  He said it was a problem; and later said it was particularly difficult for the younger officers who did not have the experience that older officers had.  He said his officers were being trained and directed to be "Safe, Lawful & Professional".  "Our people are not going out to harass you. We don't know whose who in the zoo yet. I'm sorry some of your people went through that [those incidents described] but there will be some more inconvenience."

He said officers were now being given iPads to speed up the roadside activity; that when pulled up, riders should produce their ID and we may be photographed (and our licences get photographed) and especially any identifying marks like tattoos. They may be asked to turn out pockets, primarily for concealed weapons. If riders refuse to comply with lawful directions, police can take action, including being arrested there and then.

Following some discussion on how riders might avoid drama on their rides, the Police Commissioner mentioned the idea of something like the current "Party Line". The initial reaction from a few was that this might be good (I cannot recall anyone speaking against the idea).  One rider rep then said they'd made a habit of contacting their local Gold Coast Police about all their rides and never been hassled.  It followed that the police would be happy to engage with rider groups on their movements to be forewarned (just like a party organiser pre-warning the QPS in case it gets out of control). The suggestion was that maybe an email address could be set up too.

He said he wanted legitimate rider groups to grow.  But he also later provided a caution, that we should be wary of OMG members trying to get into our clubs, to infiltrate them.

Deputy Commissioner Brett Pointing comments

He recognised there'd been a lot of media coverage of late and now waiting outside the meeting, saying he'd speak to how important legitimate motorcycle groups are.  Brett said Police want their Officers to focus on the "quality of interactions" with riders.  He said "having points of contact with recreational riders would be good" and "It is critical to have us [rec riders] on side".

My Summary

In summary, the rider reps made it clear their concerns, and the Minister and senior police responded very well, with suggestions and positive comments and clear explanations.  I understand that a hard-line view of the meeting might focus on no change as a result, except that riders may now be expected to keep police up to date with their movements to avoid being hassled.




Thank you,

The National Committee
Ulysses Club Inc.

[Bones]

Actually Ken, that morning of the muster run when we were on the balcony having brekky, a cop ute with a canopy went past, saw the bikes parked there turned around and went past 2 more times. On the last pass the female driver cranked her neck through the windscreen to see who was up there, then kept going satisfied we weren't going to rape pillage or plunder their little town.

I agree something should be done about organised crime, but like Arnie said, the laws have always been there to do that. What this dictating little hitler is doing is trying to take all your rights away. after all, I thought this was a free country where you could go about your business weather alone or in a group without fear or retribution regardless of your age creed colour or religious beliefs.

It's going back to the old Joh Bjelkie Peterson days where you would be jailed for participating in a street march.
   
                                                Tony.

[rossco]

HOG members will need xtra heart meds when pulled over
tatts will be too faded or wrinkled