Biker gang terrorizes faimly in suv

[Vsekvsek]

Anyone seen this?
http://youtu.be/1ROrCz-YkiA

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pack-motorcyclists-chase-man-suv-attack-upper-manhattan-street-fender-bender-west-side-highway-article-1.1471585#ixzz2gOfpsTM1

[Rhino]

sickening - i get the feeling there won't be any justice served

[aviationfred]

From what I saw on the video the SUV driver should be charged with Assault with a deadly weapon, and at least 2 counts of Attempted Murder. Hopefully the police got to the scene before the driver of the Range Rover got dragged out of the vehicle.

Fred

[skymasteres]

From what I saw on the video the SUV driver should be charged with Assault with a deadly weapon, and at least 2 counts of Attempted Murder. Hopefully the police got to the scene before the driver of the Range Rover got dragged out of the vehicle.

Fred

Fred, according to the article they didn't. All I can say is that this is the kind of issue that polarizes the community against motorcyclists. Especially when the news coverage is so profoundly negative in that regard. In the beginning of the video the behavior of the "bikers" is terribly discourteous and they are breaking many traffic laws. That doesn't help our image when we are trying to share the roads with people that already have a negative perception of us.

Have I wanted to drag a driver out of their car after they hit me? YES. But I waited for the cops to arrive. (The officer even told the driver that she she was lucky I didn't drag her out of the car and beat her to death) Of course that comment really bothered me because it further underscored our bad name. Yes, she did something COLOSSALLY STUPID. But she didn't deserve to be "beaten" for it. License suspended sure, beaten, no.

It's one of those runaway emotion situations and the SUV driver was probably making panic fueled decisions.

No one is coming out of this one cleanly...

[aviationfred]

I agree that there is much to this video that we did not see. Something happened with the SUV before the video started. Being in an accident from a car driver not paying attention or distracted and pulling out in front of you, merging on you or rear ending you is one thing. To intentionally rear end on rider and then to be stopped and run over two or three other riders  is another thing all together.

Yes the riders appear to be squids and are obnoxious and harassing, that still does not give the driver of a 4 wheeled vehicle the right to hit a rider intentionally.

Fred

[Pat Conlon]

You know, I've been thinking about this.....and what I'm gonna say is probably going to piss you off, however...

If I were in that situation, I'm sorry to say but Rule #1 applies: the safety of my family comes first....and foremost.

Crowd hysteria is unpredictable and often volitile. I would not have stopped until my family was safe.
4900 lb Range Rover vs. motorcycles...that's a easy decision....see rule #1..

To be boxed in and stopped on a public highway is a unacceptable risk to my family regardless of who is at fault.

That being said...Should I be....

1) Arrested and charged with Assault with a deadly weapon or even (God forbid) voluntary manslaughter?

Absolutely.

2) Subject to numerous civil lawsuits?

Absolutely.

3) Lose my home and possessions to civil judgements and have my wages/retirement garnished for the rest of my life?

Yep, quite possible, even highly likely.

Would it be worth it?

Absolutely (see rule #1)  

[Rhino]

Based on what was on the video, that bike pulled in front of the SUV and deliberately braked hard.

With that many people around me, I'm with Pat.
Although with that many bikes going past me in a cage I would have taken my foot off the accelerator as soon as i saw them in Rear mirror. I've learnt its easier to let idiots past and sort themselves out up ahead.
Had it still happened as it did in the video, i probably would have hit reverse instead of going forward.

what preceded that incident would be good to know

[roverfj1200]

As said there is much not seen.

I would most likely have done something the same as crowd mentality was about to kick in.

Yeap I'm with Pat

[Capn Ron]

I'm with you Pat!

I read quite a few of the comments below the actual news article and as some have mentioned...these things can be polarizing.  What I find sad is that there's a clear tendency to take a side, not on the merits of what happened...or the merits of right or wrong...but on preconceived biases either for bikers or for families...or against "biker gangs" or against "rich guys in Land Rovers."  It's sad that people will be convicted in the minds of many based on a prejudice for or against someones lifestyle (bikers) or someones status (Range Rover).

That being said, I have been in both situations...
On the bike:
Lots of close calls, people not looking, distracted drivers...That's part of life and I have to be aware of that everytime I ride.  I truly believe one should not attribute to malice that which can be attributed to ignorance...I just shake my head and move on.  However, twice in 27 years, I was deliberately "pinched" on the bike either into another car or off the road on purpose.  I was by myself on both occasions and I viewed this as deliberate assault.  Both of those drivers had their passenger mirrors broken off.  Not sure how that happened.    

In the car:
I've had packs of 20-30 sportbikes buzzing me on blind canyon corners.  Crossing double yellow lines in the process with cars coming in the other direction causing them to ditch off to the shoulder..."Scaring" the old lady in front of me off the road.  I found myself wishing one of them would go down for giving motorcyclists a bad image.

I know what we're up against out there, but people in cars can be douchebags...and people on bikes can be douchebags.

In this case, it appears that one of the bikers brake-checked the Range Rover and he got tapped in the rear wheel.  The fact there even was a brake-check leads me to believe that there was some prior exchange and someone needed to prove something.  I don't know if the Range Rover could have avoided hitting the bike, but I do know that the bike could have avoided being hit 100% by not brake-checking.  Just stupid.  Once that happened, it became pack-mentality.

If I was in that SUV with a wife and a kid, I would have seen this scenario unfolding nearly the same as it ultimately did...being blocked on the road and being surrounded by ever-increasing numbers of pissed off guys on bikes, you can quickly imagine how this will end.  IF I believed that I...or anyone with me...was in further danger, I would have plowed my way out of there too.  Sort this out in court later, but if you back a man into a corner, don't be shocked if the outcome isn't what you expected.

Cap'n Ron. . .

[simi_ed]

You know, I've been thinking about this.....and what I'm gonna say is probably going to piss you off, however...

If I were in that situation, I'm sorry to say but Rule #1 applies: the safety of my family comes first....and foremost.

Crowd hysteria is unpredictable and often volitile. I would not have stopped until my family was safe.
4900 lb Range Rover vs. motorcycles...that's a easy decision....see rule #1..

To be boxed in and stopped on a public highway is a unacceptable risk to my family regardless of who is at fault.

That being said...Should I be....

1) Arrested and charged with Assault with a deadly weapon or even (God forbid) voluntary manslaughter?

Absolutely.

2) Subject to numerous civil lawsuits?

Absolutely.

3) Lose my home and possessions to civil judgements and have my wages/retirement garnished for the rest of my life?

Yep, quite possible, even highly likely.

Would it be worth it?

Absolutely (see rule #1)  

Pat, you're right, your answers do piss me off, but probably for a different reason.
The law say that you may act in self defense (or of others, i.e. your family) if a reasonable person would have felt the same way in the same circumstances.  If I'm in a cage with the family and a pack of bikers force me to stop and approach in a threatening manner, I'm gonna act to protect everyone in my party.  No jury of my peers should convict me of ANY crime, based the above circumstances. You are allowed to defend yourself in the USA (for now, until Eric Holdup http://www.justice.gov/ag/ gets his way).

My $0.02

[Pat Conlon]

Hey Ed, let me explain....
I would expect to be arrested....however, notice I did not say anything about a conviction. I think it's reasonable for a jury to acquit, based on the points you make...

Civil court....that's a different matter. The burden of proof is much lower than criminal court.
Beyond a reasonable doubt (criminal) vs. the preponderance of evidence (civil)

Ask OJ....civil court is a bitch.

Quiz time: who is the only 5'4" Jewish guy to own a Heisman Trophy?

[Vsekvsek]

If i was in suv being chased i wouldn't have stopped. I would have continued at highway speed. Then slammed on brakes causing the optimal chain reaction of bobbling bikes . D bags on both sides from what I can see though. Reason one million and one why I would never ever live in north east.

[spsmith_fj1200]

My first reaction when I saw this was that the SUV was in the wrong lane for some reason, with the motorcyclists on either side of him.  From what was shown on the video, you can not tell if the motorcyclists came up on the SUV and then decided to pass on  both sides or if something else had put the SUV in the middle lane.  You can definitely not tell who started things before the video starts.

Once the rider pulled in front of the SUV and did the brake check, the situation was out of control.  I do not know if the SUV driver could have locked the doors, turned off the engine and turned on the emergency flashers and used a cell phone to call the police, but there was a lot of poor judgement on both sides.  Given that the driver had his wife and daughter in the SUV, I can't blame him for leaving.

[skymasteres]

Hey Pat, Ron,

I completely understand "Rule #1" and agree. But at what point does protecting your family lead to the stark raving panic that has a man using a SUV in a monster truck rally fashion?
What I'm saying is, I think the guy crossed the Rubicon when he drove over the three bikes and started running flat out. The initial incident where the bike got tapped from behind looked blatantly deliberate on the rider's part. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior. BUT, I really think the guy freaked out and played into the escalation of things when he lost it. I mean, the report says they were "Damaging the vehicle" Okay,  that could mean anything from banging on it and making a dent, scratching the paint, or pulling off trim. Judging by the way the guy was able to speed off the tires were untouched.  In my way of thinking, let the morons beat on the car and get themselves sorted out. It's insured, nobody is getting hurt, and the police will come. Now, if they had broken a window and violated the space inside the SUV, THAT'S another thing entirely.

When I got hit as a single rider, I went over to the station wagon that hit me and rapped on the woman's window. She ignored me and locked the doors. I asked her "I just want to know what you were thinking when you saw me" She told me she was calling the cops. I said fine and sat on her hood. We sat there for 15 minutes as I started to grow sore.

Now, that was a completely different situation. But had she driven off at that point I would have been pretty enraged, in spite of the fact that I had already taken a picture of her car, capturing the damage and her license plate.

I can only imagine how the riders, who were already acting in the worst interests of the community, felt when this guy fled the scene.  An opportunity for cooler heads to prevail was completely pissed away when the SUV driver stooped to the level of the hooligans he encountered.  Now, if the morons outside had been as aggressive as they were at the END of the five minute chase and been using helmets to bust my window...  Or put another way, he got pulled from his vehicle and brutally beaten because he DROVE OVER PEOPLE and ran out of places to run.  If  they had exhibited that kind of aggression from the get go, then YES, that level of reaction trying to flee would have been justified because there was imminent danger to yourself and family. You'd bet your ass it would have been a balls out run to protect my family.  But "protecting my family" does not give me the right to run people down for vandalizing my expensive car.

I hope my comments piss people off. But there is plenty of blame on both sides here. This was an educated man that started thinking like a cave man. He took his several thousand pound vehicle and ran roughshod over people further angering a swarm of bees.  Hind sight is 20-20, so if I were in that position maybe I would have freaked out early. But I can tell you this, now that I've had the opportunity to fully consider this scenario, I would rather just suck it up and take some damage to paint and body work, then fully enrage 75+ people.  Protecting my family would be "Rule #1". But deadly force should be reserved when there is imminent danger to life.

[skymasteres]

Well, shoot. I was editing it and that "hope I piss peopl off" line didn't come out right. It should be, "I hope people are pissed off, and think about how mistakes were made on both sides here"