. . . and don't really want to die trying. A guy might expect this job to be simple, but not by any of the books that I have. Sure would be nice to have some qualified bike techs around, so if anybody knows of a decent bike fixer (or bike shop) in Utah, I'd be game. Most nearby bike shops have rotten reviews posted, and/or rotten reputations, period. The shops don't care what people may say, because there are so few choices here. Even a good shop in SLC would still be an hour+ away from me
Before work even starts, there is a black plastic "PROGRAM" cap on the fork tubes, and none of my manuals seem to include any references to them, or a final setting when finished. Is this a stock item for an 1985 FJ1100, or is this a mod? Are there any tech manuals for them, or the final settings when finished? A Search of past posts gave me no good results. Any help (and maybe a good mechanic here) would be appreciated. Picture of the PROGRAM cap:
(http://user.xmission.com/~red/ForkCap.jpg)
Cheers,
Red
Quote from: red on July 20, 2013, 11:42:19 AM
. . . and don't really want to die trying. A guy might expect this job to be simple, but not by any of the books that I have. Sure would be nice to have some qualified bike techs around, so if anybody knows of a decent bike fixer (or bike shop) in Utah, I'd be game. Most nearby bike shops have rotten reviews posted, and/or rotten reputations, period. The shops don't care what people may say, because there are so few choices here. Even a good shop in SLC would still be an hour+ away from me
Before work even starts, there is a black plastic "PROGRAM" cap on the fork tubes, and none of my manuals seem to include any references to them, or a final setting when finished. Is this a stock item for an 1985 FJ1100, or is this a mod? Are there any tech manuals for them, or the final settings when finished? A Search of past posts gave me no good results. Any help (and maybe a good mechanic here) would be appreciated. Picture of the PROGRAM cap:
(http://user.xmission.com/~red/ForkCap.jpg)
Cheers,
Red
That cap is just that, it pops right off. Doesn't even really need to be on there....
Under that cap is an adjustable hex that is used to set the suspension to hard, medium or soft, and in the centre of that hex is the thing that adjusts the damping.
That "thing" is slotted to aid adjustment with a flat head screwdriver, and has a dot to help alignment with marks on the hex.
Both of these should be set same point to get the correct adjustment for the suspension.
Hope you can understand that. :wacko3:
Red,
Check out this thread: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4072.msg35737;topicseen#msg35737 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4072.msg35737;topicseen#msg35737)
The work doc. write up attached to the first message on this thread will give you an idea of what things look like in there:http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1911.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1911.0)
Mark M
Quote from: FJ111200 on July 20, 2013, 11:59:24 AM
Under that cap is an adjustable hex that is used to set the suspension to hard, medium or soft, and in the centre of that hex is the thing that adjusts the damping.
That "thing" is slotted to aid adjustment with a flat head screwdriver, and has a dot to help alignment with marks on the hex.
Both of these should be set same point to get the correct adjustment for the suspension.
Hope you can understand that.
FJ111200,
Maybe not. Would I be changing these settings, just to do the dis-assembly? If so, how would I know if I got things (such as pre-load) set correctly, when reassembling the fork caps?
Mark M, some of those pictures work, some do not, and some only show half-pictures. Is the fork oil change procedure the same on a 1989 and a 1985?
I see that fork oil levels are measured with the fork compressed. The manual gives a only a volume (424cc) to fill, not a distance. Does anybody know what the oil level should be, with the forks fully assembled, and fully extended?
Thanks,
Red
The settings will not change if you are just removing the cap. The adjuster rod just spins unless you depress it and engage the internal lock to turn it. So you can remove the cap without changing the settings.
You just need to make sure you install the "D" shaped adjuster rod back into the center of the damper rod at the bottom.
The average setting of the fork level oil compressed is 6" from the top. That is adjustable to help you tune the forks.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on July 20, 2013, 02:20:37 PM
The settings will not change if you are just removing the cap. The adjuster rod just spins unless you depress it and engage the internal lock to turn it. So you can remove the cap without changing the settings.
You just need to make sure you install the "D" shaped adjuster rod back into the center of the damper rod at the bottom.
The average setting of the fork level oil compressed is 6" from the top. That is adjustable to help you tune the forks.
Randy - RPM
Randy,
Once you open a can of worms, you always need a bigger can, to put them back . . .
On one side, the center slotted rod can be turned with a common screwdriver, maybe ten degrees either way with little resistance, and if depressed a few mm, seems to engage into a slot below, which I did not try to turn. From your description, I am guessing this is normal.
On the other side, the center slotted rod can be turned only a few degrees, with some force applied, and can not be depressed at all. This part seems to be locked somehow.
I have not yet raised the front wheel off the ground, after discovering this difference. The front suspension seems to work normally, though.
Thanks,
Red
I think you got one side wrong and the rod is not in the d shaped hole.
Quote from: Flying Scotsman on July 20, 2013, 03:56:46 PM
I think you got one side wrong and the rod is not in the d shaped hole.
Flying Scotsman,
That situation may be the case, but I have not even started the job, yet. The best way for me to proceed from here, would be most useful.
Would it make any difference to lift the front wheel, to get the rod re-set properly? What should be done next?
Thanks,
Red
I would take the forks apart and fix them.If you need seals do that too.If you dont need seals all you have to do is remove the top of the fork with a rear axle nut inside the big hex drain the oil so you can see and re instal the rod making sure its turned the same as the D shaped hole.You will know you got it right if the top piece slides down to the threads and you can screw it in.Fill with oil then screw in top.I would remove forks to do it I think it would be more difficult in the bike.
If the rod is in the wrong hole, you're going to have to pull the cap to fix it anyway.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1267.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1267.0)
Red,
Unless you want to do one fork tube at a time, which is possible, you're going to have to suspend the front wheel. If you remove both fork caps without suspending the front, your bike will fall on its nose, as the caps hold the springs in and the springs hold the bike up/ I've never done it one at a time, but I suppose you could do it that way, just use the volume measure for fork oil listed in the manual for refill and go with that.
The word doc. link that I sent you to works on my end, --I'm not sure why you are getting 1/2 pictures....
I can't answer your question 'are the forks on an '85 the same as an '89'. Sorry. I think you've got anti-dive on your forks and the '89 forks don't // I'm not sure how that effects this procedure, but I"m assuming not a lot. ?
I don't know why your preload adjuster is not turning, however, when you take this all apart, you'll have a better understanding to what's going on in there and what's up. Also, you'll see how easy it will be to install some of Randy's springs and emulators if you ever get the want to. :good:
85 and 90 are not the same.Similar though.Oil capacity and viscosity not the same either.
Here is a nice little stand that "markmartin" came up with (at least that's who I stole the dimensions from) :rofl2:
There some variations on the stand.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/1651_23_02_13_3_28_22.jpeg)
George
(continuing...)
I removed the plastic caps (thanks), and broke loose the 27mm fork cap, but did not remove it. After some attempts to rotate things, I find that all parts inside the cap rotate, when the cap is rotated. I would guess this is normal, but more knowledge will be welcome. The center rod (with the common screwdriver slot) can now be depressed, against some spring pressure. It is not as free as the other side, but at least it is not bound up, as before. There is a hexagon ring (which I colored blue, for clarity, in the picture below) around the screwdriver slot. This ring rotates, and can be unscrewed upward, independent of any other parts. I have not removed it yet, and before I do, I need to know the function of this ring. Any advice is welcome, here.
I am working alone, so if the top cap nut must be removed, I will need a shop to do it for me. I only want to change the fork oil, really. If I have to get the forks rebuilt with all new o-rings and seals, I may as well have Randy's fork valves installed then, too. I can't spare the money for that work, now.
Thanks,
Red
(http://user.xmission.com/~red/TopCloseBlue2.JPG)
The inner screwdriver slot is the damper rod adjustment, it should turn independently when removing the cap.
The hex you have highlighted is the spring pre-load, it should be turning with the cap as you remove it.
If you need the fork rebuilt, you can send them over and I can do the for you. I charge $130.00 plus parts and I guarantee they will be rebuilt properly.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on July 23, 2013, 12:57:23 PM
The inner screwdriver slot is the damper rod adjustment, it should turn independently when removing the cap.
The hex you have highlighted is the spring pre-load, it should be turning with the cap as you remove it.
If you need the fork rebuilt, you can send them over and I can do the for you. I charge $130.00 plus parts and I guarantee they will be rebuilt properly.
Randy - RPM
Randy,
I figure that would be your $130, maybe $95 for a fork rebuild kit, and $210 for new fork valves, for a minimum of $435. That fork valve "mod" would be nice for me, really, but it's more than I can spend, for now. I just bought new tires, and some other stuff. Maybe in the dead of Winter here, things will be better for me.
For right now, though, what happens when the spring pre-load collar is unscrewed and removed completely, on otherwise fully assembled front forks? I'd like to get a look at that center rod.
Cheers,
Red
Quote from: red on July 23, 2013, 01:44:15 PM
Randy,
For right now, though, what happens when the spring pre-load collar is unscrewed and removed completely, on otherwise fully assembled front forks? I'd like to get a look at that center rod.
Cheers,
Red
You need to support the weight of the bike and remove the caps. Then drain the oil and refill with new. Put the caps back on making sure to index the damper rod adjusting shaft in the center of the damper rod.
It might be worth going and downloading one of the service manuals available on the website. Here is one George posted recently; http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9581.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9581.0)
Randy - RPM
I'll second that comment by Randy. SUPPORT the front end. I thought mine was supported but the jack had lost pressure without me noticing and when I took the first cap off, wow you should have heard the whistle as it shot past my head. The dent it made in the steel roof isn't bad either, lol.
I won't be making that mistake again :dash2:
Quote from: X-Ray on July 26, 2013, 12:02:21 AM
I'll second that comment by Randy. SUPPORT the front end. I thought mine was supported but the jack had lost pressure without me noticing and when I took the first cap off, wow you should have heard the whistle as it shot past my head. The dent it made in the steel roof isn't bad either, lol.
I won't be making that mistake again :dash2:
X-Ray,
Yeah, I would expect that to happen, from some other bikes that I had. Other riders have said much the same things to me, also. None of my earlier bikes (in my under-funded world) were putting as much weigh on the springs as the FJ, though, so I may know
what can happen, but I do not know
how much pressure is involved. How were you able to compress the fork springs on the FJ, to get the fork caps back on?
It wasn't too bad getting the cap back on, just a pain getting the fine threads engaged correctly and not crossed. It was just a matter of cap in hand, pushing down with my weight while turning the thing slowly trying to get it threaded right. Took a few goes as I had new springs which were a little tough, but I'm sure others had an easier experience than me, :good2: