I hope some one can help with this one.
I have an issue with the front brake switch lighting up the rear brake light.
Ihave checked voltage through the wiring harness for the rear brake right up to the 3 wire plug at the lights and everything works fine and the brake light lights up.
I have checked the wiring harness through the front brake switch right up to the 3 wire plug at the lights. I have 12vDc when the brake is applied but from the plug to the bulbs nothing lights up.
doesnt make any sense to me as both brakes have power to the plug but rear works and front wont.
???
I got two different messages from your post, the front brake switch illuminates the brake when it should not, and the rear does not illuminate when the front brake is applied. If the wiring is good then the switch is likely the problem. Have you put a meter on the switch (continuity check) to make sure it changes states when actuated? Is this a new problem? If so what was done work wise recently (just before the problem started) that might affect wiring?
back brake works
front does not
both have 12vDC going to the 3 wire plug (checked and verfied when lever pulled and peddle presssed) just before bulbs.
front brake swithch checked and works correctly
Quote from: scouser on March 30, 2013, 08:54:03 AM
back brake works
front does not
both have 12vDC going to the 3 wire plug (checked and verfied when lever pulled and peddle presssed) just before bulbs.
front brake swithch checked and works correctly
When I was running the stock m/c, the front brake light switch had to be changed 2 or 3 times... never did figure out why. :scratch_one-s_head:
Never a problem with the R1 unit.
Do you have a FJR master cylinder on your bike?
CraigO
cant figure out why I get voltage at the plug before the bulbs when both front and back is applied and only the back lights it up. switch is working if voltage is allowed to pass through when both are applied.
Quote from: not a lib on March 30, 2013, 09:19:22 AM
Quote from: scouser on March 30, 2013, 08:54:03 AM
back brake works
front does not
both have 12vDC going to the 3 wire plug (checked and verfied when lever pulled and peddle presssed) just before bulbs.
front brake swithch checked and works correctly
When I was running the stock m/c, the front brake light switch had to be changed 2 or 3 times... never did figure out why. :scratch_one-s_head:
Never a problem with the R1 unit.
Bike is all stock.
Quote from: craigo on March 30, 2013, 11:52:00 AM
Do you have a FJR master cylinder on your bike?
CraigO
Ok, let me try...
You do know that you get 12v power at the rear lamp plugs when you turn your key on...correct?
For the Running lamps.
A second circuit supplies a additional 12v to the lamp plugs when the front/rear brake switches are activated
That's how the light bulbs get brighter...the second filament in the bulb burns when the brakes are applied.
Therefore, don't confuse the 12v readings at the rear lamp plugs, you should get 2 readings, one for the running lights and the second for the stop lamp filaments.
Forget about the rear brake switch ..it's working
Forget about the light bulbs and bulb sockets, they work when the rear brake is applied.
Now...............
With the key on....When you unplug the 2 wires from the front brake master cylinder (m/c) and touch them together
Does the rear brake light come on? (Not the running lights, they should come on when you turn the key)
Yes or No.
If yes, then the problem is with the switch...if no, then the problem is elsewhere.
Well stated Pat.
Kurt
Thanks for the reply.
I tested it by checking from putting the tester on the wire in the harness and the other probe to ground. No voltage reading until I pressed the back brake and front brake. Each time I got a good reading of 12vDC.
however only the back works.
I will be checking it over again with the information you have given me.
thanks.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 30, 2013, 02:55:36 PM
Ok, let me try...
You do know that you get 12v power at the rear lamp plugs when you turn your key on...correct?
For the Running lamps.
A second circuit supplies a additional 12v to the lamp plugs when the front/rear brake switches are activated
That's how the light bulbs get brighter...the second filament in the bulb burns when the brakes are applied.
Therefore, don't confuse the 12v readings at the rear lamp plugs, you should get 2 readings, one for the running lights and the second for the stop lamp filaments.
Forget about the rear brake switch ..it's working
Forget about the light bulbs and bulb sockets, they work when the rear brake is applied.
Now...............
With the key on....When you unplug the 2 wires from the front brake master cylinder (m/c) and touch them together
Does the rear brake light come on? (Not the running lights, they should come on when you turn the key)
Yes or No.
If yes, then the problem is with the switch...if no, then the problem is elsewhere.
Thanks again you are correct.
I just tried it the way you explained and it lights up when touching the wires togther..
I will be taking off the switch and check it out.
Cheers.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 30, 2013, 02:55:36 PM
Ok, let me try...
You do know that you get 12v power at the rear lamp plugs when you turn your key on...correct?
For the Running lamps.
A second circuit supplies a additional 12v to the lamp plugs when the front/rear brake switches are activated
That's how the light bulbs get brighter...the second filament in the bulb burns when the brakes are applied.
Therefore, don't confuse the 12v readings at the rear lamp plugs, you should get 2 readings, one for the running lights and the second for the stop lamp filaments.
Forget about the rear brake switch ..it's working
Forget about the light bulbs and bulb sockets, they work when the rear brake is applied.
Now...............
With the key on....When you unplug the 2 wires from the front brake master cylinder (m/c) and touch them together
Does the rear brake light come on? (Not the running lights, they should come on when you turn the key)
Yes or No.
If yes, then the problem is with the switch...if no, then the problem is elsewhere.
Ok, that's common, I've been through a couple of brake light switches myself...they do wear out.
Kudos for sticking with it... Cheers.
I've replaced the front brake light switch on my '85 at least 3 times.
Try prying the switch open and cleaning the contacts. That's worked for me in the past.
DavidR.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 30, 2013, 02:55:36 PM
Ok, let me try...
You do know that you get 12v power at the rear lamp plugs when you turn your key on...correct?
For the Running lamps.
A second circuit supplies a additional 12v to the lamp plugs when the front/rear brake switches are activated
That's how the light bulbs get brighter...the second filament in the bulb burns when the brakes are applied.
Therefore, don't confuse the 12v readings at the rear lamp plugs, you should get 2 readings, one for the running lights and the second for the stop lamp filaments.
Forget about the rear brake switch ..it's working
Forget about the light bulbs and bulb sockets, they work when the rear brake is applied.
Now...............
With the key on....When you unplug the 2 wires from the front brake master cylinder (m/c) and touch them together
Does the rear brake light come on? (Not the running lights, they should come on when you turn the key)
Yes or No.
If yes, then the problem is with the switch...if no, then the problem is elsewhere.
Very well written Pat. I was having a hard time deciphering the original post, it was quite confusing. You simplified it well and hopefully scouser can get it sorted out. You have a way of explaining things that make it easy to understand. Your posts have been very helpful to me in the past. Keep up the good work.
Thanks
Derek
Thanks Derek. I am looking forward to seeing you and your lovely Donna at the WCR! Cheers! Pat
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 30, 2013, 02:55:36 PM
With the key on....When you unplug the 2 wires from the front brake master cylinder (m/c) and touch them together
Does the rear brake light come on? (Not the running lights, they should come on when you turn the key)
Yes or No.
If yes, then the problem is with the switch...if no, then the problem is elsewhere.
If no (as I do have with my R1 m/c at the moment) is there any known common issue causing this that I should check first, before I start my investigation on the matter?
It did work fine with stock m/c before I removed bits and pieces on the bike, never disconnected any electrical except battery, blinkers and fuel.
Cheers
Ken
Update:
Haven't been able to look at the bike yet, but have looked at the wiring diagram for my bike.
The front brake switch is fairly easy, connected with only two wires. It shares a cable with the horn and speedometer, and both of them are in working order. I did how ever replaced the horn a month ago, but since it's functional properly i woulden't think that that's the cause of the problem.
The only thing left would be to check the second wire from the front switch. On the diagram its marked as a green cable with yellow dots, and it should only have two connection points. One being on the switch, and the other onto the rear brake switch line. Both rear and front are sharing the brown cable I'm guessing is earth...
So, the issue should then be located along the green line somewere since all other component shard by the other cable is working.
Will keep you posted.
Cheers
Ken
Hey Ken, start with the basics.
Is the fuse ok?
With the key on, do you have running lights?
Do you have a brake light when you activate the back brake? If so rule out the bulbs and sockets.
Then, on the 2 wires to the front brake switch, one wire should have 12v power (key on)
If yes, then you have power to the brake switch and the problem resides downstream of the switch. The wire that goes from the switch to the rear lights. (assuming that you checked the switch as discussed earlier)
If no, then you have a problem upstream of the switch, the power feed to the switch circuit.
A multi tester set on dc will give you the voltage readings and set on ohms with testing from point to point will tell you where the interruption is located. Or a simple continuity light and test light will do the same.
Check your connectors, then check again. Let us know what you find.
Cheers
Quote from: Pat Conlon on April 17, 2013, 11:41:42 AM
Hey Ken, start with the basics.
Is the fuse ok? Yes they are
With the key on, do you have running lights? Yes
Do you have a brake light when you activate the back brake? If so rule out the bulbs and sockets.Yes I do
Then, on the 2 wires to the front brake switch, one wire should have 12v power (key on) I do have power, but not 12v, I measured it to 8,5v..
If yes, then you have power to the brake switch and the problem resides downstream of the switch. The wire that goes from the switch to the brake rear lights. This is were I think my problem is located, somewere...
If no, then you have a problem upstream of the switch, the power feed to the switch circuit. This might be possible since I only measured 8,5v
This I will try out to morrow, kids,work,house and family tends to take a lot more time when something is wrong on the bike :scratch_one-s_head:
A multi tester set on dc will give you the voltage readings and set on ohms with testing from point to point will tell you where the interruption is located. Or a simple continuity light and test light will do the same.
Check your connectors, then check again. Let us know what you find. Cheers Pat
Hi Pat.
Thanks for that usefull information.
Yes I did check the easy parts first since that's all I had time for today.
I did as mention above find some voltage issue on the 12v line in to the connector. Haven't looked at were the line starts, but guessing somewere after the battery. Battery is good, so maybe after fusebox..?
Cheers
Ken
No, not the fuse box. The fuse box is upstream of your switch. Your problem is interruption between the switch and rear light, although the fuse box may be involved in your low voltage readings at the switch.
See why we do the headlight relay mod and coil relay mod? It's those low voltage readings we get.
Keep at it...you'll find it and it's very probably a simple fix....the trick is finding it.
Cheers.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on April 17, 2013, 01:40:34 PM
See why we do the headlight relay mod and coil relay mod? It's those low voltage readings we get.
Ohh no!!! The virus strikes again! Can't... resist.... moditus.... Ahhh damn it... :dash1:
I will search for these mods on the forum and read a bit up on them. :good:
But please do explain theme in some extent if you will or point me in the right direction. The forum search turns up alot of different subject, but I've yet to find a specific Relay mod thread.
Thanks Pat.
I will try to look into it more thoroughly tomorrow if the time allows me too.
Will keep you posted.
Cheers
Ken
Nevermind Pat, I found all the threads i needed to read up on the two mods :yes:
But, if i do the HID conversion, there would be no need for the headlight relay mod, right? Or?
The coil mod, would it affect the HID conversion?
Cheers
Ken
I don't know about HID needing the headlight relay mod. Others can chime in. I have heard that it helps although I don't have a HID headlight.
I do know the headlight relay mod *dramatically increases* the brightness of the non HID headlight. I recall the voltage readings to my headlight was ~10 volts with the current running through my stock wiring harness. With a dedicated home run circuit (i.e.from relay directly to battery) on the headlight relay I get 12-14 volts. A Night and day difference.
The coil relay mod does the same thing for the coils. More energy (i.e.voltage) to the coils means a hotter spark. Faster starting, etc, etc.
Both the headlight relay and coil relay are independent of each other but they *may* share the same dedicated home run power lead attached to the battery.
If you do choose to share a common home run between the coil relay and headlight relay, I suggest a separate fuse on the headlight relay power lead. That way if you blow a headlight fuse you will still have power to your coils.
Your bike tends to stop rather quickly when the coils loose power.
Clear as mud?
The DDM HID kit wires direct to the battery, no relay required. The OEM plug is used to get the low/hi and on signal from the bike. The kit does the rest of the work. It also allows me to switch back (without tools) to a standard bulb if the HID bulb or system fails.
Pat, clear as mud :good2: Thanks.
Mr. Monkey, i did indeed look at DDM HID kit, but unfortunately they don't ship to Norway, so i have to figure a way around that.
Have seen other kits on eBay at similar price range but DDM seems to be the better choice for me...
Well, then DDM Motorcycle HID Kit, 55W, H4 High / Low, 6000K is ordered...
Shipping might be a bitch, but it will get here.... hopefully :good2:
Now, the my attention is turned to the coil relay mod. See people buy their relays at radioshack... Does it have to be a specific relay, or will any suffice?
Cheers
Ken
Quote from: keand3 on April 18, 2013, 02:36:48 AM
Well, then DDM Motorcycle HID Kit, 55W, H4 High / Low, 6000K is ordered...
Shipping might be a bitch, but it will get here.... hopefully :good2:
Now, the my attention is turned to the coil relay mod. See people buy their relays at radioshack... Does it have to be a specific relay, or will any suffice?
Cheers
Ken
Ken, I'm using a 30amp Hella relay with good results. It's the type that is commonly used to wire up driving lights and other auto accessories. Regards, Pete.
Thanks Pete, i will look into that relay.
Pat, have checked every wire and they are all conected. Ohm was great from switch to tail.
Looks to be power related, will do some more searching..
Ken
Question.
I was looking at several lines and connectors on my bike when i accedently manage to rip out the two wires from the petcock.
After that the bike went all dead..
Can this two cables do that? there is no end of the cables sticking out of the petcock to reattached too.
Anyone been at this problem before?
I am sorry if i am bombing this thread with posts, but I feel it's important to keep my progress updated for you guys if I am to get any help :i_am_so_happy:
So regarding my last post on my bike turning dead and no power, I do think that stripping of those cables from the petcock at the same time the bike went dead were just a coincidence. The battery went out of juice after all testing on and off etc.. But, I can't really meassure it until tomorrow because my multi tester went dead too... Did change the battery but no, screen all messed up Have to buy a new one, but now all stores are closed... Phaaa... Just one of those days i guess.
But this is my findings so far (while the multimeter worked)
The line from the switch to the taillight is in order according to the ohm measurements on several points along the line... All though previous owner has done a fairly poor job replacing the mid section of the original green and yellow cable, by inserting extension from a few cm behind the handlebar switch connector to the first big connector on the harness. But still the ohm turned out great. :dash2:
I have not yet measured the power feed to the switch to see if there is any voltage all the way, because my meter died..
Might it bee some earth issue on the line causing the trouble?
Cheers
Ken
Multi meters can lie, try using a 12v test light, one with a sharp probe,
Thanks for the tip, i will be sure to acquire one of those also. :i_am_so_happy:
Hopefully i will get lucky when the new equipment is in house. After all, its Friday :rofl2:
I found the problem. It was a porely conntact were the line from the front switch connects with the rear line.
After fixing the connection it was all good.
Tried to fix the petcock wiring but it all went to h#@&.
Is it possible and safe to run the bike with the electrical reserve disconnected? Untill i can afford to replace it, it will have to do.
Cheers
Ken
Good job on the brake switch Ken.
I don't know about the electric reserve petcocks. Others can help here.
The question is, is the petcock normally open, or normally closed?
Normally open means that the petcock will flow *all* of your tank of gas without 12v power (your condition)
Normally closed means that you need 12v power to open up the petcock to get all your gas in the tank.
If it's normally open, you are good to go. You still have your gas gauge, odometer, and low fuel light.
Worst case, normally closed, means that you will 1/2 gallon of gas in your tank you can not access.
Many folks have bypassed the electric reserve. Hope this helps. Kudos Ken! Pat
Hi, I go thru front brake lamp switches every 200 mi. Any ideas?
1985 FJ1100