Hi Folks, I am in the market for a new shock on the back of my 3XW and I was wondering about the Honda F4i shock conversion. I have not read anything on the forum lately and was wondering if there is any negative feedback and what to be looking out for? :rofl2: :rofl2:
I would start with reading this: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=6549.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=6549.0)
There is always something to be negative about :). I am negative about spending 600.00 for a new shock :). Might have to someday but I plan on holding out for awhile .
F4i shocks are cheap and worth a try. If you do no harm to the mounting points on your bike then you can always put your old shock or an aftermarket one back on.
When you do this kind of mod you are assuming you own responsibility for the out come :).. That said it has been done many times and I am in the process of doing it myself.
So far so good on my 3VC (1984 1100).
Biggest negative at least for the later model FJs is that the C to C length of the shock is ~13" which changes the linkage ratio and requires new dogbones. It also requires you to remove the centerstand because it won't retract fully. As "movenon" said, with any mod like this you assume your own liability.
Arnie
Thanks for the replies, very usefull.
No serious negatives after fitting the f4i to my 84,, other than needing the center stand lengthened however you see fit, and leaning over further on the side stand , no
One thing that isn't really explicitly addressed is the fitment details for putting one of these on an 89+ FJ1200.
The suspension linkage is different than the previous generation FJ1100.
The first to fit one to an 89 was arnie , he should be able to answer any questions for you ,,
I am in the middle of putting one on a 1990 FJ. If you need some info. I would be glad to tell you what I know a least to date. Arnie has done it and has been real helpful.
George
Arnie fitted a F4i shock to his '91 pink stripe bike.
The mount procedure for the '89 should be the same.
Arnie
Quote from: movenon on January 31, 2013, 06:54:29 PM
I am in the middle of putting one on a 1990 FJ. If you need some info. I would be glad to tell you what I know a least to date. Arnie has done it and has been real helpful.
George
Hi George
Be great if you put up some pics as u go.
thx
Jeff
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/1651_28_01_13_9_47_50.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/1651_28_01_13_9_44_50.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/1651_28_01_13_9_46_30.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/1651_28_01_13_9_21_38.jpeg)
That's where I am right now. I am waiting for a needle bearing to arrive for the top end of the shock, 24mm OD, 12mm ID, 23mm wide sealed ends. (it's just mocked up with a cross bolt in the last picture) and some bearings that should be replaced in the relay arm. Should have those by next mid week. Then I have to reinstall the swing arm, mock up the wheel and tire to measure how long to make the dogbones.
As a note: Where the relay arm bolts to the frame there are 2 small bearings in there that on my bike were rusty and in crappy condition. I would encourage anyone that gets that far to pull that arm and inspect / re-lube. I would recommend a good marine grade grease. I guess the reason I mention this is the bolt holding the arm in is fairly long and I had to unbolt the right Al. side structure to get the bolt out. Takes an extra step that some may not do it when re-lubing the swing arm. It's in a high corrosion area and the bearings are small. I think I have located some aftermarket bearings that might be better (they are longer). They will not be here until Tuesday to test fit.
The longer and heavier bearings where the dogbones bolt to are Yamaha proprietary bearings.... Call Randy at RPM... They are Yamaha only. Mine were in good shape, I just got "punch happy" and drove them out then realized I screwed up. :)
I will post more on the bearings next week. Got to wait for the next supply wagon arriving out West.....
George
Quote from: movenon on February 02, 2013, 11:10:09 AM
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/1651_28_01_13_9_47_50.jpeg)
That's where I am right now. I am waiting for a needle bearing to arrive for the top end of the shock, 24mm OD, 12mm ID, 23mm wide sealed ends. (it's just mocked up with a cross bolt in the last picture) and some bearings that should be replaced in the relay arm. Should have those by next mid week. Then I have to reinstall the swing arm, mock up the wheel and tire to measure how long to make the dogbones.
As a note: Where the relay arm bolts to the frame there are 2 small bearings in there that on my bike were rusty and in crappy condition. I would encourage anyone that gets that far to pull that arm and inspect / re-lube. I would recommend a good marine grade grease. I guess the reason I mention this is the bolt holding the arm in is fairly long and I had to unbolt the right Al. side structure to get the bolt out. Takes an extra step that some may not do it when re-lubing the swing arm. It's in a high corrosion area and the bearings are small. I think I have located some aftermarket bearings that might be better (they are longer). They will not be here until Tuesday to test fit.
The longer and heavier bearings where the dogbones bolt to are Yamaha proprietary bearings.... Call Randy at RPM... They are Yamaha only. Mine were in good shape, I just got "punch happy" and drove them out then realized I screwed up. :)
I will post more on the bearings next week. Got to wait for the next supply wagon arriving out West.....
George
Presumable you have to weld the yamaha shock bracket to the existing bracket to avoid heat transfere to the honda shock?
Yes, the idea is to keep the heat away from the shock as much as possable. It really was not a problem. Just took it slow. The bottom of the shock barely got warm. As a note IF you damage the nitrogen bag you can replace it. It is rebuildable, not that you want to do that !
I took a 1/2 " chunk of steel rod and ground it flat on one side to slip in under the "Arch" and welded the sides also to give it more support. Pretty solid now. The clevis I used was hack sawed off the FJ shock.
As this is work in progress I am think about adapting a longer nitrogen air line (off F3 or F2 Honda or custom made) and mount the canister up where the old FJ adjuster was mounted. I believe Arnie said he mounted his to the right side of the swing arm. I found a local guy that will recharge the shock for 10.00.. I think the air charge is around 150-180 lbs. But that's based on some pretty soft information.
I hope to have the top end of the F4i mounting solved by next week. More on that when I get the part.
George
George,
Nice work and good pics. I can now stop considering taking mine apart just to take some shots :-)
I cut the eye a bit shorter than you have, but its not a major difference.
Also, I turned the upper mount bolt down to 10mm (except for the last 2-3mm) so it would fit through the F4 bearings. Changing bearings as you've done is a better solution.
Arnie
It is to nice of weather down there to be tearing your bike down !! In hind site I could have knocked it down another 1/4 " (6.35mm). Heat wasn't as much a problem taking the weld slow. Ended up with 13 " center to center.
I thought about turning down the stock FJ 12mm bolt down to 8mm and using the Honda bearing but I do not have a lathe. I modified a polyurethane shock mount rubber for the top but it was pretty custom and I would like to come up with something easier to repeat. With the stock F4i shock top bearing removed you now have a 24mm hole, the FJ shock bolt is 12mm thick.
So I located this bearing http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/NEEDEL_ROLLER/Kit7904 (http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/NEEDEL_ROLLER/Kit7904) . It is wider than the stock Honda bearing but that is not a problem. In fact hopefully better. The bearing is also sealed at each end. At any rate that's what I have ordered. 10.00 bearing with 6.00 for shipping. We will see if it works.... :) I have a stack of SS washers to center up the shock when I get that far.
For those following the F4i shock at the top end is narrower than the saddle in the FJ that it bolts into and needs to be shimmed in. Again a good thing. This also "cages" the bearing in.
George
Its good to see some pics of this mod. I have the f4 shock ready to go but cant find anyone who is willing to do the welding. They all run away when I mention gas filled shock. One mob in Brisbane wanted $250 as they would only attempt it with the shock dismantled. That would include re gassing and new seals. I would also need a new clevis made up as my original cracked and is now in 2 pieces. I am almost tempted to break out the old arc welder and try to do it myself but the results could be ugly. If anyone knows someone in the Brisbane area that could do this for a reasonable price ( slab of beer ? ) please let me know before I ruin a perfectly good shock
I wouldn't do it with and stick arc welder. Someone there has to have a wire feed (MIG) welder...... Also someone probably has an old shock around that you could salvage the clevis off. Might post in the "Parts Wanted" section for a junk shock ? If you find one have them cut the clevis off and just post that part.
George
Quote from: movenon on February 02, 2013, 11:32:47 PM
I wouldn't do it with and stick arc welder. Someone there has to have a wire feed (MIG) welder...... Also someone probably has an old shock around that you could salvage the clevis off. Might post in the "Parts Wanted" section for a junk shock ? If you find one have them cut the clevis off and just post that part.
George
There is absolutely no reason that it can't be welded with a stick welder. Use either a good quality s/steel or low hydrogen electrode and it will be every bit as strong as a MIG weld. Pete.
Quote from: oldktmdude on February 03, 2013, 12:18:31 AM
Quote from: movenon on February 02, 2013, 11:32:47 PM
I wouldn't do it with and stick arc welder. Someone there has to have a wire feed (MIG) welder...... Also someone probably has an old shock around that you could salvage the clevis off. Might post in the "Parts Wanted" section for a junk shock ? If you find one have them cut the clevis off and just post that part.
George
There is absolutely no reason that it can't be welded with a stick welder. Use either a good quality s/steel or low hydrogen electrode and it will be every bit as strong as a MIG weld. Pete.
You're right but a good stick weld requires a much more skilled operator than mig.
Noel
I realize that this probably the dumbest question but, to save cutting up two shocks to make one, £50 + £50 + welding = £100 or more, would it be an option to fit an 1100 swinging arm to a 3XW, I have seen them on ebay for as little as £20. Would I then be able to keep the centre stand and probably no need to change the dog bones?
Quote from: ribbert on February 03, 2013, 01:30:12 AM
Quote from: oldktmdude on February 03, 2013, 12:18:31 AM
Quote from: movenon on February 02, 2013, 11:32:47 PM
I wouldn't do it with and stick arc welder. Someone there has to have a wire feed (MIG) welder...... Also someone probably has an old shock around that you could salvage the clevis off. Might post in the "Parts Wanted" section for a junk shock ? If you find one have them cut the clevis off and just post that part.
George
There is absolutely no reason that it can't be welded with a stick welder. Use either a good quality s/steel or low hydrogen electrode and it will be every bit as strong as a MIG weld. Pete.
You're right but a good stick weld requires a much more skilled operator than mig.
Noel
Yeah, you are right Noel. Being a qualified welder/boilermaker for over 35 years, I tend to forget that stick welding in this day and age is almost a black art. Almost anyone can use a MIG welder in a flat or vertical-down position once set to the correct voltage and wire-speed settings. I still use to stick welder for most of my home projects because it's always set-up and ready to go. Pete.
Quote from: stua1959 on February 02, 2013, 11:14:56 PM
Its good to see some pics of this mod. I have the f4 shock ready to go but cant find anyone who is willing to do the welding. They all run away when I mention gas filled shock. One mob in Brisbane wanted $250 as they would only attempt it with the shock dismantled. That would include re gassing and new seals. I would also need a new clevis made up as my original cracked and is now in 2 pieces. I am almost tempted to break out the old arc welder and try to do it myself but the results could be ugly. If anyone knows someone in the Brisbane area that could do this for a reasonable price ( slab of beer ? ) please let me know before I ruin a perfectly good shock
The f4 shock is charged with Nitrogen which is nonflammable. To avoid putting too much heat into to shock whilst welding (causing possible damage to the seals) stand the shock in a bucket of water with the level just below the weld zone. Almost anyone with very basic welding skills can do this without any worries. Regards, Pete.
AFAIK, all the swingarms prior to the clevis mount shock did NOT use dogbones. Without dogbones any adjustment of ride height is 'difficult'. However, by not adding the clevis and retaining part of the eye to weld to, you're not going to have the extra length (and resultant problems including ride height) So, the shock will end up being about 12" C to C.
And, you will probably be able to keep the centerstand.
You don't need to cut the clevis off another $50 shock. You can make one fairly easily out of 5mm steel flat bent to the proper shape and drilled.
Arnie
Quote from: Grey runner on February 03, 2013, 03:27:37 AM
I realize that this probably the dumbest question but, to save cutting up two shocks to make one, £50 + £50 + welding = £100 or more, would it be an option to fit an 1100 swinging arm to a 3XW, I have seen them on ebay for as little as £20. Would I then be able to keep the centre stand and probably no need to change the dog bones?
Thanks so much for putting up the pics!
For the top mount, on an 86, we used the bushing from the old shock. See that other long post.
For the bottom clevis, I have some heavy wall box tube that is very close to the right inside measurement. My idea is to drill the bolt hole first and then cut the section of the tube off, and then cut the botton of the tube off to make the clevis. I will post up some pics if I can get around to gettting it done.
My welder buddy would not touch either...but with the pics maybe I can convince someone!
Thanks again...most helpful.
Jeff
I gave some thought to just putting an older swingarm on but I really wanted to keep my AL. arm with the dogbone set up.
Stick welding would work of coarse, I am just not that talented :) With the MIG I wrapped a water soaked rag around the base and it barley got warm at the base. Welding a little at a time, about 3 or 4 seconds on the trigger, cool down, then do it again.
I just used the old FJ clevis because it was there... As Arnie said you can make one. I don't know how badly your existing clevis is broken but you could have it welded back together. When welding it onto the shock eye you can weld the ends so structurally it is stronger than before on the FJ. Keep up looking for someone with a welder. Do you know anyone in the auto body shop business or doing auto restoration as a hobby ? They use MIG welders all the time.
My goal on this conversion is to make it easy to repeat (as possable) and do no damage to the bike frame or swingarm so that a aftermarket shock or stock shock could always be installed if for some reason it doesn't work out or I win the lottery.... Or maybe I can get a cardboard sign and stand on a street corner "need money for bike"...
George
Quote from: movenon on February 03, 2013, 01:26:42 PM
... Or maybe I can get a cardboard sign and stand on a street corner "need money for bike"...
George
Yeah, that could work. Especially if you've got a low cut top, big boobs, and a short skirt.
(and your real name is "Georgina". :-)
Arnie
I posted a shot of the box tube I am going to use to fabricate the clevis in the gallery...not sure how to get it to show in the post. This way you would not have to cut up the original shock.
Regards,
Jeff
Update on the f4i shock upper mounting in 1990 FJ .
This bearing http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/NEEDEL_ROLLER/Kit7904 (http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/NEEDEL_ROLLER/Kit7904) works perfectly in the upper mount of the shock. You use the stock FJ 12mm bolt to bolt in the the shock. I am stacking some 1/2 " washers to to fill in the gap left and right of the shock to limit/stop lateral movement. Cost 16.00 delivered. around 10 bucks across the counter if you live in the area.
The larger bearings in the relay arm that hook to the dog bones, IFyou remove them are Yamaha proprietary only........ You will have to order them from RPM or you favorite Yamaha dealer..... Mine were not bad, I just brain farted and punched them out.... :dash2: "Thanks" Randy, I received them today !
The smaller/thinner bearings that are in the relay arm end that bolts to the FJ frame on mine were terrible, rusted etc. My opinion is the bearings are to small and in a potently high moisture environment also not easy to get access for routinely lubrication. From Yamaha the cost is over 15.00 each. Koyo bearing HK 1816 fits perfectly and is a little longer, cost 5.77 each 2 for 11.54... Less money, more bearing surface. (interesting note, Koyo "Made In Germany").. Recommend filling with marine grade grease.
The bearing that is where the shock bolts to on the relay arm in mine was OK. I don't have any info on it other than from Yamaha it is expensive for what it is, 25 - 30.00 range.
If you convert to an F4i in a later FJ you may not want to get involved with changing out any bearings in the relay arm, that's an individual decision. I am just addressing what I found out. There are at least 3 different ways you can mount the upper end of the F4i shock to a later FJ and all work equally well. You can use the stock Honda bearing and turn down the FJ mounting bolt to 8mm (you can't just use an 8mm bolt). You can fabricate/grind/cut a rubber or polyurethane shock grommet to fit, or install a new bearing that lets you use the FJ mount bolt.
George
Hank,
Great info on the bearings. I replaced all of mine in the shock linkage/swingarm (92) this winter. "the relay arm end that bolts to the FJ frame" were the very bad (powdered rust and needles fell out) and the bushing had to be replaced as well.
Bearings from Yamaha were over $70.00 for this exercise.
Thanks,
Jeff
Quote from: jscgdunn on February 05, 2013, 02:30:29 PM
Hank,
Great info on the bearings. I replaced all of mine in the shock linkage/swingarm (92) this winter. "the relay arm end that bolts to the FJ frame" were the very bad (powdered rust and needles fell out) and the bushing had to be replaced as well.
Bearings from Yamaha were over $70.00 for this exercise.
Thanks,
Jeff
Yes those are the ones...... It requires a bit more labor to get them out. That's why they do not get serviced as they should. They are small cheap bearings. My bearing shaft also had a little marking due to the rusted bearings but still serviceable. The aftermarket bearings are better in my opinion. And fill that sob with good grease.
On the F4i shock top bearing that I got. I had to open the shock eye a up little to press in the bearing (with a vise). About a .5 mm
difference. I took a 3/4 wood dowel and wrapped a sheet of emery cloth around it and clearenced
it as required. The eye is Al. And "machines" easily. Take a little and test fit , took 15 min. I didn't want to force to hard.
George
Thx George,
We are planning on getting down to Idaho this summer so maybe we can connect. Last year we got to Cour de lane. My son and I and found a great ride around Hayden Lake.
Jeff
Yes it is beautiful country up there.. Down here it is high desert at the base of the mountains. Are you going to the WCR ? Looks like there might be 4 of us linking up in route so far. The bike needs some minor mechanical attention but it will just have to wait until later in the summer. Where in Idaho were you planning to visit or go thorough in route ?
WCR is pretty far for this year so I do not think we can make it.
Probably back to Cour de lane via Kalispel/Glacier (the pic shown is at Glacier last year). Great ride between Kalispel via Libby to Sandpoint. Then to Cour de lane and maybe further south.
Jeff
Ok, I have finally finished the Honda shock conversion on my 91 FJ thanks to the advice from members of this forum. I had some difficulty getting someone to weld the clevis onto the shock so I ended up doing it myself with the old stick welder. I wrapped the shock in wet towelling and only welded a small section before letting it cool down. I made the clevis out of 6mm angle welded together to form the U shape as the original clevis was destroyed. I also formed a 6 mm thick half moon shape to go between the honda shock and clevis to add extra strength
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/2849_10_03_13_1_09_59.jpeg)
The top mounting point was easy. I needed a bush with an inside diameter of 12mm for the original mounting bolt and an outside diameter of 16mm for the Honda shock bearing. As I had just replaced the suspension linkage bushes I had plenty of this size. I had my local friendly engineer cut a 40 mm length to fit the Yamaha mounting. As the Honda mount is about 38mm wide, I used a couple of stainless washers to stop any sideways movement.
The gas reservoir has been zip tied to the swingarm for the time being until I come up with a better solution
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/2849_10_03_13_1_08_49.jpeg)
Because of my home made clevis and the extra length of the shock I had to make up some dogbones 25mm longer than standard. I used cold rolled steel 6mm thick, 40 mm wide. Should be strong enough
The rear wheel now sits about 20mm off the ground when on the centre stand but the stand cannot fold right up due to the extra length of the dogbones. I will leave it off and just use it as a work stand. The sidestand is fine and will not need to be lengthened.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/2849_10_03_13_1_06_19.jpeg)
This has been an interesting exercise but I wont be able to test the results until I get the bike finished and back on the road. I have returned the shock to the original Honda settings and my first impressions are that it is fairly soft initially and then hardens up. The rebound also seems a little slow. I am hoping that I didnt destroy a seal with the heat from my amateur welding or that the extra length of the linkage is not suited to the stroke of the shock
25mm in the dogbones is a lot. If it was me I would make doubly sure that all the linkages worked as they should. In general terms linkages like that are designed to work in a certain arc and if you exceed that the leverage effect changes, particularly at the end of it's travel. In extreme cases they can even go over centre or exert and excessive load on the mounting points. I have seen this happen.
Not wishing to be a wet blanket on your mods or suggest that your bike is dangerous but there appears to have been sufficient change to some very short linkages to warrant caution. All is probably well but given the importance of it's operation and the consequences of a failure I would err on the safe side and check it before riding.
And, this comes from someone well known to have a cavalier attitude towards safety.
Noel
Thanks Noel. I appreciate what u are saying. I will check everything and take it easy until I am sure of what is going on. Like I said. this is an exercise and if it doesnt work I will go back to a standard shock or if I can afford it, a RPM shock
Good work ! :good2: :good2: :good2:
The first set of bones I built, with my 1990 FJ on the center stand and rear tire was just about on the floor, they gave me a low riding position. Lower than stock. I wanted to raise the rear up. When talking dog bone length the shock length (mine 13" c -c ) and rear tire ( mine is 180/55/17 ) effects the dog bone length.
So I made another set of bones (center to center hole spacing 4 7/8 ", approx 123mm). Now while parked on the side stand the rear is about the same height as the old FJ was on the center stand. On the center stand with a 1 1/2 (38mm) broad under it, the rear wheel has 3/4" (19.05mm) clearance from the floor.
For now that's where I am going to leave it, I wanted to raise the rear up. I estimate that it is up about 1.5 " (39.37mm) over the stock rear ride height. I built a 3/4 " (19.05mm) shoe to go under my kick stand and now it sits like a stock FJ as far as the lean angle go's on the side stand.
The center stand will have to be modified or removed before riding. Work in progress...
I like the work you did on the clevis. It looks stronger than what I did.
I set my preload at "3" (mid position) and the first time I sat it down to do a sag measurement I found it had to much sag. I now have the preload set at 6 and the sag is still a little more than I would like but probably acceptable. Yet to be determined... I have preliminarily adjusted the compression and rebound up firmer. No real riding report yet.. I am still working on the bike.
My preliminary opinion is that the f4i shock probably has a rider max weight limit on the FJ of around 220 LB's. And that's where I am. And that is just an unfounded opinion...
The shock feels better than the stock shock but riding will tell the complete story. I am not there yet.
I ended up with my reservoir mounted in the same place as you. Eventually if the shock works out I would like to install a longer air line and mount it up where the old FJ adjuster went. Also I trimmed the front of the rear fender/splash guard giving more clearance for adjusting the preload on the shock.
Good point Noel on the arc and leverage. By eye ball and rough measurement it looks OK. BUT.... :). Arnie has been running this for a while along with a few others none have reported any safety problems (maybe there were no survivors :dash1:). Yet... One instance of tearing up dog bones has been reported but something was said about "bunny jumping"....
I guess if it doesn't work I to will be hanging around RPM's WEB site drooling for a new shock. :rofl:
George
Quote from: jscgdunn on February 07, 2013, 09:41:26 AM
WCR is pretty far for this year so I do not think we can make it.
Probably back to Cour de lane via Kalispel/Glacier (the pic shown is at Glacier last year). Great ride between Kalispel via Libby to Sandpoint. Then to Cour de lane and maybe further south.
Jeff
Love that area on a bike!
Dan
So on the 89+ FJ's is the center to center measurement on the stock shock 12 or 13 inches? (I'm getting confused)
Or is the FJ 12" and the F4i 12". Or is it the other way around with the FJ at 13" and the F4i at 12" :wacko3:
Quote from: skymasteres on March 13, 2013, 12:10:26 AM
So on the 89+ FJ's is the center to center measurement on the stock shock 12 or 13 inches? (I'm getting confused)
Or is the FJ 12" and the F4i 12". Or is it the other way around with the FJ at 13" and the F4i at 12" :wacko3:
Stock FJ shock ................= 285mm center to center
Stock unmodified F4i shock = 300mm (15mm longer) C to C
IF you modify an F4i shock for a 89+ bike you will end up with the F4i shock at about 13" C to C. (due to welding on a clevis to one end)
George
Ribbert,
I finally caught up with the posts made while I was going to and from Bellingen.
My dogbones are 145mm C to C. This gives me about 20 mm extra long dogbones which was necessary to correct the ride height change caused by the excess length of the F4i shock with the clevis added.
I now have over 18,000 kms on the bike set up like this and have had no handling problems I would attribute to the linkage being out of proper range.
I have had to remove the centerstand as it won't fully retract with this length dogbones.
Next time you're in the neighborhood, lets go for a ride, you can feel how it handles for yourself.
Arnie
After riding around now for a couple of weeks I will give my impression of this mod.
The shock is set to standard and the spring is on the second hardest setting. I weigh 80 kg and rider sag is 65mm ( ideal is about 35 mm ) so the spring is way too soft. When I get around to setting the preload to its max I might get another 5 mm. Even with the excessive sag the bike still handles well, no wallowing or scary moments and it hasnt bottomed out even 2 up on a less than perfect back road. I have a favorite corner which I use to judge my suspension setup. It is an uphill sweeper that gradually tightens up before u hit a big mid corner dip. The fj wasnt upset at all and held its line well. Overall I am pretty pleased with this mod considering that it cost me bugger all and I didnt have much choice at the time if I wanted to stay within my budget. Until I can afford a better alternative this will do, although I am looking at the BMW shock mod thread to see how that pans out