Honda F4i shock

[movenon]

It is to nice of weather down there to be tearing your bike down !! In hind site I could have knocked it down another 1/4 " (6.35mm). Heat wasn't as much a problem taking the weld slow. Ended up with 13 " center to center.

I thought about turning down the stock FJ 12mm bolt down to 8mm and using the Honda bearing but I do not have a lathe. I modified a polyurethane shock mount rubber for the top but it was pretty custom and I would like to come up with something easier to repeat. With the stock F4i shock top bearing removed you now have a 24mm hole, the FJ shock bolt is 12mm thick.
So I located this bearing http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/NEEDEL_ROLLER/Kit7904 . It is wider than the stock Honda bearing but that is not a problem. In fact hopefully better. The bearing is also sealed at each end. At any rate that's what I have ordered. 10.00 bearing with 6.00 for shipping. We will see if it works.... I have a stack of SS washers to center up the shock when I get that far.

For those following the F4i shock at the top end is narrower than the saddle in the FJ that it bolts into and needs to be shimmed in. Again a good thing. This also "cages" the bearing in.
George

[stua1959]

Its good to see some pics of this mod. I have the f4 shock ready to go but cant find anyone who is willing to do the welding. They all run away when I mention gas filled shock. One mob in Brisbane wanted $250 as they would only attempt it with the shock dismantled. That would include re gassing and new seals. I would also need a new clevis made up as my original cracked and is now in 2 pieces. I am almost tempted to break out the old arc welder and try to do it myself but the results could be ugly. If anyone knows someone in the Brisbane area that could do this for a reasonable price ( slab of beer ? ) please let me know before I ruin a perfectly good shock

[movenon]

I wouldn't do it with and stick arc welder. Someone there has to have a wire feed (MIG) welder...... Also someone probably has an old shock around that you could salvage the clevis off. Might post in the "Parts Wanted" section for a junk shock ? If you find one have them cut the clevis off and just post that part.

George

[oldktmdude]

I wouldn't do it with and stick arc welder. Someone there has to have a wire feed (MIG) welder...... Also someone probably has an old shock around that you could salvage the clevis off. Might post in the "Parts Wanted" section for a junk shock ? If you find one have them cut the clevis off and just post that part.

George

There is absolutely no reason that it can't be welded with a stick welder. Use either a good quality s/steel or low hydrogen electrode and it will be every bit as strong as a MIG weld.    Pete.

[ribbert]

I wouldn't do it with and stick arc welder. Someone there has to have a wire feed (MIG) welder...... Also someone probably has an old shock around that you could salvage the clevis off. Might post in the "Parts Wanted" section for a junk shock ? If you find one have them cut the clevis off and just post that part.

George

There is absolutely no reason that it can't be welded with a stick welder. Use either a good quality s/steel or low hydrogen electrode and it will be every bit as strong as a MIG weld.    Pete.

You're right but a good stick weld requires a much more skilled operator than mig.

Noel

[Grey runner]

I realize that this probably the dumbest question but, to save cutting up two shocks to make one, £50 + £50 + welding = £100 or more, would it be an option to fit an 1100 swinging arm to a 3XW, I have seen them on ebay for as little as £20. Would I then be able to keep the centre stand and probably no need to change the dog bones?

[oldktmdude]

I wouldn't do it with and stick arc welder. Someone there has to have a wire feed (MIG) welder...... Also someone probably has an old shock around that you could salvage the clevis off. Might post in the "Parts Wanted" section for a junk shock ? If you find one have them cut the clevis off and just post that part.

George

There is absolutely no reason that it can't be welded with a stick welder. Use either a good quality s/steel or low hydrogen electrode and it will be every bit as strong as a MIG weld.    Pete.

You're right but a good stick weld requires a much more skilled operator than mig.

Noel

Yeah, you are right Noel. Being a qualified welder/boilermaker for over 35 years, I tend to forget that stick welding  in this day and age is almost a black art. Almost anyone can use a MIG welder in a flat or vertical-down position  once set to the correct voltage and wire-speed settings. I still use to stick welder for most of my home projects because it's always set-up and ready to go.  Pete.

[oldktmdude]

Its good to see some pics of this mod. I have the f4 shock ready to go but cant find anyone who is willing to do the welding. They all run away when I mention gas filled shock. One mob in Brisbane wanted $250 as they would only attempt it with the shock dismantled. That would include re gassing and new seals. I would also need a new clevis made up as my original cracked and is now in 2 pieces. I am almost tempted to break out the old arc welder and try to do it myself but the results could be ugly. If anyone knows someone in the Brisbane area that could do this for a reasonable price ( slab of beer ? ) please let me know before I ruin a perfectly good shock

The f4 shock is charged with Nitrogen which is nonflammable. To avoid putting too much heat into to shock whilst welding (causing possible damage to the seals) stand the shock in a bucket of water with the level just below the weld zone. Almost anyone with very basic welding skills can do this without any worries.  Regards, Pete.

[Arnie]

AFAIK, all the swingarms prior to the clevis mount shock did NOT use dogbones.  Without dogbones any adjustment of ride height is 'difficult'.  However, by not adding the clevis and retaining part of the eye to weld to, you're not going to have the extra length (and resultant problems including ride height)  So, the shock will end up being about 12" C to C.
And, you will probably be able to keep the centerstand.

You don't need to cut the clevis off another $50 shock.  You can make one fairly easily out of 5mm steel flat bent to the proper shape and drilled.

Arnie

I realize that this probably the dumbest question but, to save cutting up two shocks to make one, £50 + £50 + welding = £100 or more, would it be an option to fit an 1100 swinging arm to a 3XW, I have seen them on ebay for as little as £20. Would I then be able to keep the centre stand and probably no need to change the dog bones?

[jscgdunn]

Thanks so much for putting up the pics!

For the top mount, on an 86, we used the bushing from the old shock.  See that other long post.

For the bottom clevis, I have some heavy wall box tube that is very close to the right inside measurement.  My idea is to drill the bolt hole first and then cut the section of the tube off, and then cut the botton of the tube off to make the clevis.  I will post up some pics if I can get around to gettting it done.

My welder buddy would not touch either...but with the pics maybe I can convince someone!


Thanks again...most helpful.


Jeff

[movenon]

I gave some thought to just putting an older swingarm on but I really wanted to keep my AL. arm with the dogbone set up.
Stick welding would work of coarse, I am just not that talented  With the MIG I wrapped a water soaked rag around the base and it barley got warm at the base. Welding a little at a time, about 3 or 4 seconds on the trigger, cool down, then do it again.

I just used the old FJ clevis because it was there... As Arnie said you can make one. I don't know how badly your existing clevis is broken but you could have it welded back together. When welding it onto the shock eye you can weld the ends so structurally it is stronger than before on the FJ. Keep up looking for someone with a welder. Do you know anyone in the auto body shop business or doing auto restoration as a hobby ? They use MIG welders all the time.

My goal on this conversion is to make it easy to repeat (as possable) and do no damage to the bike frame or swingarm so that a aftermarket shock or stock shock could always be installed if for some reason it doesn't work out or I win the lottery.... Or maybe I can get a cardboard sign and stand on a street corner "need money for bike"...
George

[Arnie]

... Or maybe I can get a cardboard sign and stand on a street corner "need money for bike"...
George

Yeah, that could work.  Especially if you've got a low cut top, big boobs, and a short skirt.

(and your real name is "Georgina". :-) 


Arnie

[jscgdunn]

I posted a shot of the box tube I am going to use to fabricate the clevis in the gallery...not sure how to get it to show in the post.  This way you would not have to cut up the original shock.

Regards,

Jeff

[movenon]

Update on the f4i shock upper mounting in 1990 FJ .

This bearing http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/NEEDEL_ROLLER/Kit7904 works perfectly in the upper mount of the shock. You use the stock FJ 12mm bolt to bolt in the the shock.  I am stacking some 1/2 " washers to to fill in the gap left and right of the shock to limit/stop  lateral movement. Cost 16.00 delivered. around 10 bucks across the counter if you live in the area.

The larger bearings in the relay arm that hook to the dog bones, IFyou remove them are Yamaha proprietary only........ You will have to order them from RPM or you favorite Yamaha dealer..... Mine were not bad, I just brain farted and punched them out....  "Thanks" Randy, I received them today !

The smaller/thinner bearings that are in the relay arm end that bolts to the FJ frame on mine were terrible, rusted etc. My opinion is the bearings are to small and in a potently high moisture environment also not easy to get access for routinely  lubrication. From Yamaha the cost is over 15.00 each. Koyo bearing HK 1816 fits perfectly and is a little longer, cost  5.77 each 2 for 11.54... Less money, more bearing surface. (interesting note, Koyo "Made In Germany").. Recommend filling with marine grade grease.

The bearing that is where the shock bolts to on the relay arm  in mine was OK. I don't have any info on it other than from Yamaha it is expensive for what it is, 25 - 30.00 range.

If you convert to an F4i in a later FJ you may not want to get involved with changing out any bearings in the relay arm, that's an individual decision. I am just addressing what I found out. There are at least 3 different ways you can mount the upper end of the F4i shock to a later FJ and all work equally well. You can use the stock Honda bearing and turn down the FJ mounting bolt to 8mm (you can't just use an 8mm bolt). You can fabricate/grind/cut a rubber or polyurethane shock grommet to fit, or install a new bearing that lets you use the FJ mount bolt.
George

[jscgdunn]

Hank,
Great info on the bearings.  I replaced all of mine in the shock linkage/swingarm (92) this winter.  "the relay arm end that bolts to the FJ frame" were the very bad (powdered rust and needles fell out) and the bushing had to be replaced as well.

Bearings from Yamaha were over $70.00 for this exercise.

Thanks,

Jeff