I should ask Randy this directly but i know he will probably pick it up and answer anyway! So for anyone else that happens to know, the installation guides says, "if you have the 'D' rod you will need to cut it....."
Were there certain years that didnt have the 'D' rod, if so which ones?
If i havnt got a 'D' Rod does that therefore mean i dont need to cut anything off?
Any pics of the 'D' rod, i have been through the haynes manual but cant find anything obviously labeled as a D rod.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=6335.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=6335.0)
The D rod is a D shaped rod that is attached to the top of the fork cap. The D rod goes through the center of the fork and into the damper unit in the lower part of the forks allowing adjustment. With the RPM valves you only need 2" of this rod extending into the forks as the valves now control the damping. Look at the bottom pic of my post.
My 91 did NOT have the damper rod.
This may have been the change over year, as there is no set screw in the lower part of the fork leg to hold a damper rod either.
Quote from: 1tinindian on October 09, 2012, 10:32:26 AM
My 91 did NOT have the damper rod.
This may have been the change over year, as there is no set screw in the lower part of the fork leg to hold a damper rod either.
I believe they were phased out after the 88 model year..... only spring preload was adjustable on top of the forks after that.
Kookaloo!
Frank
Cheers guys for your input! So I'm taking from this that my 93 won't have the rod, therefore the valves sit in and the springs are installed ontop of the valves, the diagram just looks like the springs finishes three or four coils under the spring!
Yam must have only changed the d rods out in 88 in the states, my 89 front end has it, so does the 89 parked next to mine :scratch_one-s_head:
Just read my Haynes manual more clearly, they changed it from 91 onwards (as mentioned before). I have pictured the page with the exploded parts diagram. I will post it up tomorrow as its late now and maybe one of you patient souls can highlight the salient points of what goes where in relation to this. I have not done front suspension before and am quite keen not to fuck it up!
My '90 had them........I cut them off when I installed the racetech valves.................
Anybody want to buy a pair of Brand-Used in the box, racetech valves...........So I can buy the RPM valves? :flag_of_truce:
me, how much for the valves
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action-gallery;sa=view;id=3911)
Ok so i am assuming that the valves sit at the bottom of No. 6?
Do the springs overlap the valves at all? Does this this then sit on top of or slide into No. 7.?
And i do not need to cut 2" off of anything?
Quote from: nurse on October 10, 2012, 02:57:33 AM
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action-gallery;sa=view;id=3911)
Ok so i am assuming that the valves sit at the bottom of No. 6?
Do the springs overlap the valves at all? Does this this then sit on top of or slide into No. 7.?
And i do not need to cut 2" off of anything?
For a 93, remove the top caps and the oil drain screws and allow the oil to drain.
Pull the springs and discard. Drop the valves into the forks with the nut up. Drop in the new springs and make sure the forks are fully extended. Measure from the top of the spring to the top of the fork tube.
Adjust the preload adjuster to a middle setting. Measure from the top the seating point to the solid washer used on top of the spring and subtract from the previous fork tube measurement.
Now add 10-15mm for preload and cut the spacers to length.
Remove springs and set the oil level as explained in the instructions. Install the springs and adjusters, handlebars and you are ready to ride.
The only modification required is the cutting of the "D" rod on models that had them. Other than that the measuring and cutting of the spacers is all the is required.
Designed to drop in and go with minimal modifications required.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: nurse on October 10, 2012, 02:57:33 AM
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action-gallery;sa=view;id=3911)
Ok so i am assuming that the valves sit at the bottom of No. 6?
Do the springs overlap the valves at all? Does this this then sit on top of or slide into No. 7.?
And i do not need to cut 2" off of anything?
try that again
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/3/2484_10_10_12_1_52_21.jpeg)
Cheers Randy. When cutting spacer to length, to which 'spacer' are you refering? (could you refer to exploded diagram!) Im a visual learner!
Sorry im being a completely useless tool on this one!
Quote from: nurse on October 10, 2012, 07:07:20 AM
Cheers Randy. When cutting spacer to length, to which 'spacer' are you refering? (could you refer to exploded diagram!) Im a visual learner!
Sorry im being a completely useless tool on this one!
The spacer comes with the new springs, just some aluminum tube about the same diameter as the spring. As to your prior post, the valve sits under #6 the spring, only the nut on the valve sits in the spring. And the valve sits on top of #7 inside of #8.
My new springs from RPM had PVC pipe for spacer material.
3/4"
See this thread where I installed mine.
No pictures, but I explain how I determined how big of spacer to make.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=6992.msg61800#msg61800 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=6992.msg61800#msg61800)
Cheers,
Leon
Sorry, no pictures of the spacers as they are not part of the OE breakdown.
The spacer is either aluminum or PVC pipe supplied by the spring manufacture.
Randy - RPM
He said let there be light, and there was light! I see said the blind man.
I am now with you! Thanks guys
:good:
Quote from: 1tinindian on October 09, 2012, 10:32:26 AM
My 91 did NOT have the damper rod.
This may have been the change over year, as there is no set screw in the lower part of the fork leg to hold a damper rod either.
Unless "cartridge" forks were installed, your '91 has a damper rod in each tube...
The damper rod is a different part from the "D" rod. The RPM valve sits on top of it, under the spring.... The damper rod has several holes drilled thru it, they are what controls the oil flow and "Damps" the spring's oscillations. #7 in the exploded view.
Randy: Is the rebound adjuster left in the damper rod, or is it removed?
90's have the rod, I'm guessing 91 was the first of the newer fork type.
'91 was when they went to a non-adjustable fork, there's still a damper rod in it, though...
Quote from: RichBaker on October 12, 2012, 12:08:15 AM
Randy: Is the rebound adjuster left in the damper rod, or is it removed?
The damper rod (D rod) is removed. The early model adjustable forks need to be set at the correct setting per the installation instructions. The late model fork only have a fixed orfice and there is no adjustment required.
I recall someone trying to install the cut off piece of the damper rod (D rod) into the forls after it was cut off. The cut of piece is discarded; http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=6296.msg55559#msg55559 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=6296.msg55559#msg55559)
Randy - RPM
Not what I was asking.... There is a rotating piece in the top of the Damper rod that the "D" rod goes into to adjust rebound damping. It selects between NO hole, a small hole or a large hole to change rebound damping. The R-T cartridge emulator instructions recommended brazing the holes shut or just leaving it in with NO hole selected. I left it in place, had to dremel the top for clearance for the R-T CE...
Does your valve leave that in place, or do you remove it?
Quote from: RichBaker on October 12, 2012, 12:08:15 AM
Quote from: 1tinindian on October 09, 2012, 10:32:26 AM
My 91 did NOT have the damper rod.
This may have been the change over year, as there is no set screw in the lower part of the fork leg to hold a damper rod either.
Unless "cartridge" forks were installed, your '91 has a damper rod in each tube...
The damper rod is a different part from the "D" rod. The RPM valve sits on top of it, under the spring.... The damper rod has several holes drilled thru it, they are what controls the oil flow and "Damps" the spring's oscillations. #7 in the exploded view.
Randy: Is the rebound adjuster left in the damper rod, or is it removed?
OK, the damn "D" rod then.
By the way, what does the "D" stand for?
I have had the forks apart and installed the RPM fork valves, so I'm not new to this.
I find it a bit confusing when two seperate parts are referred to as the damper rod.
This just may be a simple misunderstanding, but regardless, what I was referring to was the long slender rod that is required to be cut short when installing the RPM fork valves, and my 91 forks did NOT have this part.
Cheers,
Leon
Quote from: RichBaker on October 12, 2012, 10:28:39 PM
It selects between NO hole, a small hole or a large hole to change rebound damping. The R-T cartridge emulator instructions recommended brazing the holes shut or just leaving it in with NO hole selected. I left it in place, had to dremel the top for clearance for the R-T CE...
Does your valve leave that in place, or do you remove it?
My valve does not require any modification to the damper rod, whether brazing or drilling more holes. The damper rod is adjusted to the small hole and then the valves are installed.
No sure what you had to grind, but as long as the small hole is still there then your damper rod should be fine. There is no issue if your damper rods were drilled with additional holes per the other valve installation requirements.
The best part of the RPM fork valve is the ability to set set the damper hole for the early model forks, drop in the valves, set the oil level, install the proper springs, set the spacer length install the caps and ride into the sunset.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: 1tinindian on October 12, 2012, 10:51:37 PM
By the way, what does the "D" stand for?
Cheers,
Leon
Leon,
The adjusting rod on the early model forks is in the shape of "D" and is the rod that is cut off
The "damper rod" is the Yamaha term used for the valve section of the stock fork.
I understand the confusion as the terms are similar
Randy - RPM
Quote from: 1tinindian on October 12, 2012, 10:51:37 PM
Quote from: RichBaker on October 12, 2012, 12:08:15 AM
Quote from: 1tinindian on October 09, 2012, 10:32:26 AM
My 91 did NOT have the damper rod.
This may have been the change over year, as there is no set screw in the lower part of the fork leg to hold a damper rod either.
Unless "cartridge" forks were installed, your '91 has a damper rod in each tube...
The damper rod is a different part from the "D" rod. The RPM valve sits on top of it, under the spring.... The damper rod has several holes drilled thru it, they are what controls the oil flow and "Damps" the spring's oscillations. #7 in the exploded view.
Randy: Is the rebound adjuster left in the damper rod, or is it removed?
OK, the damn "D" rod then.
By the way, what does the "D" stand for?
I have had the forks apart and installed the RPM fork valves, so I'm not new to this.
I find it a bit confusing when two seperate parts are referred to as the damper rod. Exactly why I am making these posts. In any technical discussion, it is very important that correct terminology be used, to avoid such confusion...
This just may be a simple misunderstanding, but regardless, what I was referring to was the long slender rod that is required to be cut short when installing the RPM fork valves, and my 91 forks did NOT have this part. That is the "D" rod, people apparently are getting too lazy to refer to it as D-shaped, or, more correctly, the rebound adjuster rod.
Cheers,
Leon
"D" stands FOR nothing, it is a D-shaped rod, which everybody on here has started calling the damper rod all of a sudden.... The Damper rod is the part which holds the sliders on the stanchion tubes, and performs the actual damping via holes drilled in it. These holes allow the oil to pass from the bottom side to the upper side of the forks (poor terminology), controlling oil flow and "damping" the oscillations of the spring(s).
In the exploded view that was posted earlier, the damper rod is #7. There is a piston ring at the top of the damper rod which seals the rod to the inside of the stanchion tube, so oil will not pass by uncontrolled.
Perhaps it is a bit more clear this way:
The rebound damping adjusting ROD has a D-shaped cross section which fits into a D-shaped hole in the rebound adjustment mechanism on top of the damper rod.
EDIT: Well, looks like Rich beat me to it. :-)
DavidR.
Quote from: racerrad8 on October 12, 2012, 11:08:36 PM
Quote from: 1tinindian on October 12, 2012, 10:51:37 PM
By the way, what does the "D" stand for?
Cheers,
Leon
Leon,
The adjusting rod on the early model forks is in the shape of "D" and is the rod that is cut off
The "damper rod" is the Yamaha term used for the valve section of the stock fork.
I understand the confusion as the terms are similar
Randy - RPM
Thanks Randy!
Quote from: racerrad8 on October 12, 2012, 11:01:08 PM
Quote from: RichBaker on October 12, 2012, 10:28:39 PM
It selects between NO hole, a small hole or a large hole to change rebound damping. The R-T cartridge emulator instructions recommended brazing the holes shut or just leaving it in with NO hole selected. I left it in place, had to dremel the top for clearance for the R-T CE...
Does your valve leave that in place, or do you remove it?
[/qoute]
Quote
My valve does not require any modification to the damper rod, whether brazing or drilling more holes. The damper rod is adjusted to the small hole and then the valves are installed.
No sure what you had to grind, but as long as the small hole is still there then your damper rod should be fine. There is no issue if your damper rods were drilled with additional holes per the other valve installation requirements.
The best part of the RPM fork valve is the ability to set set the damper hole for the early model forks, drop in the valves, set the oil level, install the proper springs, set the spacer length install the caps and ride into the sunset.
Randy - RPM
There is a nut on the bottom, IIRC, and it interferes with the adjuster, so I had to make room for it. I don't have a gas welding set-up, and I didn't feel like going to a friends house to borrow theirs. So I left it in. Could have just brazed the holes closed if I had a gas set-up, and removed the adjuster alltogether.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on October 12, 2012, 11:14:22 PM
Perhaps it is a bit more clear this way:
The rebound damping adjusting ROD has a D-shaped cross section which fits into a D-shaped hole in the rebound adjustment mechanism on top of the damper rod.
EDIT: Well, looks like Rich beat me to it. :-)
DavidR.
Looks like Randy beat us both... :drinks:
Quote from: RichBaker on October 12, 2012, 11:19:06 PM
There is a nut on the bottom, IIRC, and it interferes with the adjuster, so I had to make room for it. I don't have a gas welding set-up, and I didn't feel like going to a friends house to borrow theirs. So I left it in. Could have just brazed the holes closed if I had a gas set-up, and removed the adjuster alltogether.
A nut on the bottom of the valve you installed?
I would be interested in a photo or two when you pull it apart.
The RPM fork valve does not require any modification like the other valve manufactures do.
Like I said earlier, set the hole to the small one on the adjustable damper rods, which is the same on the late model non-adjustable damper rod, like Leon has, drop in the valves, set the oil level install the springs, cut the spacers to the proper length, install the cap and enjoy the ride.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: RichBaker on October 12, 2012, 11:13:16 PM
"D" stands FOR nothing, it is a D-shaped rod, which everybody on here has started calling the damper rod all of a sudden.... The Damper rod is the part which holds the sliders on the stanchion tubes, and performs the actual damping via holes drilled in it. These holes allow the oil to pass from the bottom side to the upper side of the forks (poor terminology), controlling oil flow and "damping" the oscillations of the spring(s).
In the exploded view that was posted earlier, the damper rod is #7. There is a piston ring at the top of the damper rod which seals the rod to the inside of the stanchion tube, so oil will not pass by uncontrolled.
I think we are on the same page Rich.
But as an owner of a later model, such as myself, you can see where the confusion sets in when a particular part that no longer exist in an assembly is called out by the same name.
I think we have beat this dead horse long enough, and the point has been made, and the confusion cleared up.
Thanks all,
Leon
Quote from: racerrad8 on October 12, 2012, 09:16:57 PM
The damper rod (D rod) is removed.
Randy - RPM
I am sorry if this line has been the issue of confusion. The "Damper Rod" is #7 in the diagram below and the valve portion of the forks.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/3/2484_10_10_12_1_52_21.jpeg)
The "D" rod is the damper rod adjusting shaft that is in the shape of "D". It is attached to #3 in the breakdown on the early model forks. The rod is cut off for the installation of the RPM fork valves and any other valve for that matter.
As you can see it is not a portion of the late model forks that require modification.
Sorry if the similar terminology has created the confusion and hopefully this is the final explanation needed to understand.
Randy - RPM
Hope so, I never realised that such a simple question could gather such momentum!
Just a thought For installs like this would there be any mileage in an expert (eg randy et al) posting up YouTube clip of the finer points, seeing is believing after all!