Hi folks,
I've got a pesky oil leak somewhere down near the shifter area. Oil is getting all over my chain (it likes that) and on my back tire (not so good). I tightened a few things, but after a ride I get the leak again. Also, I was pulling out some oily fiberous material. Is there a seal down there somewhere I'm not seeing? I'm used to the Seca 900 and the Seca Turbo...on those there's nothing in that area to leak. Please HELP!!
Thanks,
IB :diablo:
Sounds like the clutch slave cylinder.
If it's oil (not brake fluid) and it's oiling the chain, then it's the output shaft seal and/or O ring. See #25 and 26 below:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/3/49_03_04_12_6_02_49.png)
Quote from: Pat Conlon on April 03, 2012, 07:04:55 PM
If it's oil (not brake fluid) and it's oiling the chain, then it's the output shaft seal and/or O ring. See #25 and 26 below:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/3/49_03_04_12_6_02_49.png)
Actually 24 & 25, with the emphasis being 25.
You also have to look at the shift shaft and clutch push rod seals which are both in the same area. The pushrod seal will blow back to the chain and the shift shaft seal could blow up to the chain.
I have all three seals in stock, I have never replaced 25 in the 16+ years of working on an FJ.
Randy - RPM
Thanks Randy, I misread the parts list, #24 and 25 it is.....If it were those, would he have to split the cases to install them?
Quote from: Pat Conlon on April 03, 2012, 09:20:10 PM
Thanks Randy, I misread the parts list, #24 and 25 it is.....If it were those, would he have to split the cases to install them?
You do not have to split the cases to replace the main shaft seal. Pry the old one out and press the new one in... According to Randy, no oil loss either...
Thanks Mark, good to know.
First things first, make sure it's not just the results from enthusiastic chain oiling :) If it's definitely oil, and not dirty brake fluid (clutch system fluid, that is), I'd guess the pushrod seal myself. There's a good bit o` pressure behind that thing, as everyone who has started the bike with the clutch slave off will tell you...
Easy enough to find though. Odds are it's made a huge mess of that area of the motor. Get some simple green or other handy degreasifying solution, take the clutch slave and countershaft covers off, clean until you're sick to the teeth of doing so, ride a little bit, and see what's what. You're sure it's not just a nick in the oil filter housing-to-cases oring?
Guys,
THANK YOU for all the info!! I was talking with my "Harley" buddy today before I read your responses, and he basically told me the same things. Gosh, I didn't know those guys in Milwaukee knew anything about "wet clutches" (LOL).
Seriously, I really appreciated the maintenance tech tips. Now the oil is that "dirty, brake fluid (clutch system fluid, that is)" as andyb stated. I thought it looked/smelled different from regular engine oil. Plus I didn't see my oil level in the window look any lower. I also thought I smelled that "Hypoid gear oil" smelling oil that you use in the shaft.
I think you guys hit the nail on the head when you said its probably #24 or #25. I haven't pulled anything apart yet, but if #24 is the "fiberous" seal, that must be what I was pulling out yesterday.
Randy, I'm going to e-mail you again to try and buy these 3 seals from you. Not sure why mine had to go, and you never had to replace one in 16+ years! I guess I'm just lucky like that (LOL).
Lastly I'm releived that I don't have to split those cases. I wouldn't be looking forward to that. Especially since I'm not a mechanic. I can do a few things, but internal engine work is above my paygrade. Thanks again dudes!!!
IB
Quote from: IronBuddha on April 04, 2012, 03:10:21 PM
Now the oil is that "dirty, brake fluid (clutch system fluid, that is)" as andyb stated. I thought it looked/smelled different from regular engine oil. Plus I didn't see my oil level in the window look any lower.
Clutch slave cylinder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote
I think you guys hit the nail on the head when you said its probably #24 or #25. I haven't pulled anything apart yet, but if #24 is the "fiberous" seal, that must be what I was pulling out yesterday.
Didn't you just say it was brake fluid? Those seals will not stop a brake fluid leak.
DavidR.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on April 04, 2012, 03:39:28 PM
Didn't you just say it was brake fluid? Those seals will not stop a brake fluid leak.
He knows it now....
#29 HERE (http://www.yamaha-motor.com/partviewer/default.aspx?ls=sport#/Yamaha/FJ1200A_-_1990/CLUTCH/FJ1200A_(1990_MOTORCYCLE)/CLUTCH_(FJ1200A_-_1990))
Go to RPM and get the slave cyl. or rebuild kit from Randy.....
http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Clutch%3Aslavecyl&cat=26 (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Clutch%3Aslavecyl&cat=26)
http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Clutch%3AS%2FK (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Clutch%3AS%2FK)
What the hell, don't I get any respect?
My first responce hit it on the head.
Oh well, I tried.
Leon
Good call Leon, I was right there with you, ready to respond, until I saw that you had the same idea that I did.
Kudos...You did good Leon. That was also my first thought but I was diverted when he said oil.......
I did not think about the clutch push rod seal, that's a good one.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on April 05, 2012, 11:00:10 AM
Kudos...You did good Leon. That was also my first thought but I was diverted when he said oil.......
I did not think about the clutch push rod seal, that's a good one.
Within the past couple of days, I have rebuilt my slave cylinder, using the seal kit from RPM, and was happily surprised to find the push rod seal included....ATTA-BOY Randy!
By the way Pat, how often do you see a slave cylinder polished??
I've been busy working on my bike and when finished, it will have a number of changes that I will discuss in its own thread.
(Come Colorado rally time, I know there is going to be alot of very nice looking FJs attending and I don't want to look outa place!)
Leon
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 05, 2012, 11:07:40 AM
(Come Colorado rally time, I know there is going to be alot of very nice looking FJs attending and I don't want to look outa place!)
Leon
So, you're busy removing the pink stripe? :bomb:
Quote from: rktmanfj on April 05, 2012, 11:31:16 AM
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 05, 2012, 11:07:40 AM
(Come Colorado rally time, I know there is going to be alot of very nice looking FJs attending and I don't want to look outa place!)
Leon
So, you're busy removing the pink stripe? :bomb:
Haven't you heard Randy, there may be up to 4 pink-stripers at the rally.
It's going to be a good rally, with manly men and pink stripe bikes! LOL!
Leon
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 05, 2012, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: rktmanfj on April 05, 2012, 11:31:16 AM
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 05, 2012, 11:07:40 AM
(Come Colorado rally time, I know there is going to be alot of very nice looking FJs attending and I don't want to look outa place!)
Leon
So, you're busy removing the pink stripe? :bomb:
Haven't you heard Randy, there may be up to 4 pink-stripers at the rally.
It's going to be a good rally, with manly men and pink stripe bikes! LOL!
Leon
Meh, I quit looking at that thread weeks ago. :pardon:
Guys,
Boy I'm not having a good time here with this one! Wait to you hear my story. Its one of those you can't believe its true. I have to run right now because I'm working (on Easter Sunday) and I have to get back to it.
All I have time to say right now is the leak is from the main seal, not the clutch at all. It sure seems like #24, #25, and possibly #26 are at fault here. Two bad notes is that I've already paid for the clutch seal rebuild kit and it hasn't leaked a drop, so i have to return them. Also, I found out why the main shaft seals have failed. One of my neck bandannas that disappeared one night was found wrapped up tighter than you know what, around my engine drive sprocket!! (#27) It took me over an hour to get all the pieces out. I think that all the excess friction in that tight spot was what made the seals fail. After cleaning and disassemble, I saw a perfectly formed oil leak coming out of the bottom of #24. Aint that the Devil's Piss!!!
:diablo:
Quote from: racerrad8 on April 03, 2012, 07:14:17 PM
Actually 24 & 25, with the emphasis being 25.
Randy - RPM
Actually, you need 24 more than 25. 25 is a small o-ring that goes behind the steel spacer that I have never replaced.
Quote from: IronBuddha on April 04, 2012, 03:10:21 PM
Randy, I'm going to e-mail you again to try and buy these 3 seals from you. Not sure why mine had to go, and you never had to replace one in 16+ years! I guess I'm just lucky like that (LOL).
Quote from: IronBuddha on April 08, 2012, 03:54:50 PM
...After cleaning and disassemble, I saw a perfectly formed oil leak coming out of the bottom of #24.
Here ya go; Transmission Output Shaft Seal (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Engine%3ASealtrans)
Glad you found the source and cause of the leak.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: IronBuddha on April 08, 2012, 03:54:50 PM
Guys,
Boy I'm not having a good time here with this one! Wait to you hear my story. Its one of those you can't believe its true. I have to run right now because I'm working (on Easter Sunday) and I have to get back to it.
All I have time to say right now is the leak is from the main seal, not the clutch at all. It sure seems like #24, #25, and possibly #26 are at fault here. Two bad notes is that I've already paid for the clutch seal rebuild kit and it hasn't leaked a drop, so i have to return them. Also, I found out why the main shaft seals have failed. One of my neck bandannas that disappeared one night was found wrapped up tighter than you know what, around my engine drive sprocket!! (#27) It took me over an hour to get all the pieces out. I think that all the excess friction in that tight spot was what made the seals fail. After cleaning and disassemble, I saw a perfectly formed oil leak coming out of the bottom of #24. Aint that the Devil's Piss!!!
:diablo:
Good find, I am still not sure where my leak is yet. I got it all cleaned up and ran the bike on the center stand, shifted through gears, had fans going to make sure she was good and hot. But no luck. I gotta take her on short run and check again. Unless you are on a really tight budget, keep the slave kit, you will need it down the road. The seals won't last forever.
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 05, 2012, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: rktmanfj on April 05, 2012, 11:31:16 AM
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 05, 2012, 11:07:40 AM
(Come Colorado rally time, I know there is going to be alot of very nice looking FJs attending and I don't want to look outa place!)
Leon
So, you're busy removing the pink stripe? :bomb:
Haven't you heard Randy, there may be up to 4 pink-stripers at the rally.
It's going to be a good rally, with manly men and pink stripe bikes! LOL!
Leon
:drinks: right on Leon Us pink stripers have to stick together :rofl2: oh and no smart arsed comments from u either klavdy :sarcastic:
baldy
Ding ding ding...Main seal huh? Whoaaa, where's the love? :gamer:
Even a blind sow finds an occasional acorn...
Quote from: Pat Conlon on April 08, 2012, 11:29:46 PM
Ding ding ding...Main seal huh? Whoaaa, where's the love? :gamer:
Even a blind sow finds an occasional acorn...
How do we explain the main seal leaking brake/clutch fluid, as stated earlier?
And that whole bandana thing has me wondering...WHAT THE HELL!?
Quote from: baldy3853 on April 08, 2012, 08:09:14 PM
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 05, 2012, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: rktmanfj on April 05, 2012, 11:31:16 AM
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 05, 2012, 11:07:40 AM
(Come Colorado rally time, I know there is going to be alot of very nice looking FJs attending and I don't want to look outa place!)
Leon
So, you're busy removing the pink stripe? :bomb:
Haven't you heard Randy, there may be up to 4 pink-stripers at the rally.
It's going to be a good rally, with manly men and pink stripe bikes! LOL!
Leon
:drinks: right on Leon Us pink stripers have to stick together :rofl2: oh and no smart arsed comments from u either klavdy :sarcastic:
baldy
Oh hell yeah, I take great pride in my pink stripe.
It's a one year only detail amongst ALL the years of FJ production, and that is outstanding in itself.
Much more outstanding than all those red and white bikes that seem soooo common, that nearly EVERYBODY has one or knows of someone with one.
I look forward to meeting you Baldy...is it rally time yet!?
Leon
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 09, 2012, 12:07:42 AM
Oh hell yeah, I take great pride in my pink stripe.
It's a one year only detail production mistake, corrected in the next model year amongst ALL the years of FJ production, and that is outstanding in itself.
Much more outstanding than all those red and white bikes that seem soooo common, that nearly EVERYBODY has one or knows of someone with one.
I look forward to meeting you Baldy...is it rally time yet!?
Leon
FTFY... :good: :biggrin:
A shit-stirrin' SOB if I ever saw one. Are you from SoCal?
Quote from: simi_ed on April 09, 2012, 10:00:27 AM
A shit-stirrin' SOB if I ever saw one. Are you from SoCal?
Nothing to see here, move along... :i_am_so_happy:
Is the oil leak sorted yet?
Honestly, wouldn't surprise me if there was more than one thing leaking here.
I look forward to meeting you Baldy...is it rally time yet!?
Leon
[/quote]
LEON
Shall be a pleasure we'll have a few sherberts to celebrate a rarity :drinks:
baldy
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 08, 2012, 11:53:10 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on April 08, 2012, 11:29:46 PM
Ding ding ding...Main seal huh? Whoaaa, where's the love? :gamer:
Even a blind sow finds an occasional acorn...
How do we explain the main seal leaking brake/clutch fluid, as stated earlier?
And that whole bandanna thing has me wondering...WHAT THE HELL!?
Tin,
I know it may sound a bit confusing. Originally I thought that the dirty, thin, watery-like fluid leaking from around my front sprocket shift area was too "thin" to be motor oil. It did look like dirty brake fluid. This is the first of my over 15 motorcycles I ever had that had a "wet" clutch (hydraulic). I've never worked on one before. And I've certainly never bled one before (which is now kicking my butt), so I thought it was like they stated in the post that it was my hydraulic clutch thing leaking. What was causing the leak was a rolled up bandanna, that I probably forgot to put on my neck one night when I was riding back from a friends place. It was dark, and I must not have noticed it maybe fell off the seat into the chain or something. Anyway that bandanna was wrapped around that front sprocket like it was made on there! And it had a combo of grease from the chain and oil soaked into it. There were fibers everywhere, and it was a mess!!! I should have taken a picture, but I was too busy digging it all out. All I can say is that thing was so jammed in there, it had to put pressure on the seals. I had no leaks whatsoever before this happened. I do vaguely remember slowing down off an onramp one night and I heard and felt this big shudder...like I had ran into something or the back wheel was locking up somewhere. I did a quick inspection but didn't see anything. I consider myself lucky I didn't have my chain lockup at 70mph!! So now I've ordered #24 from Randy, and I'm hoping it does the trick. My clutch fluid is filthy and needs changing out. I was topping it off for now, and would get to the flush/fill job later. No such luck because I didn't realize I had to bleed the thing. I put the bike in first and it lurched off. I'm like "What the heck?" Then I tried to ride and couldn't get out of first gear. This sucked, so I tried to bleed the clutch like I do brakes, and it wasn't working. I was pissed because I thought I broke something. Anyway, I've found some instructions ( I don't have a service manual yet), and I'll try to bleed so I can shift again tomorrow. I have the MSF Experienced Rider's course on Friday morning and my bike aint ready. Wish me luck. I hope this explian my own private hell. I'm open to suggestions/comments and thanks for reading this long post.
PS
What the hell is a "Pink Stripe?"
IB
:diablo:
Your slave hopefully only has a small leak. Make sure the master is topped off, use a cable tie or rope or string that will hold the clutch lever tight to the grip over night. Let the air find its own merry way up (gravity still works on FJ's). Check for clutch feel the day after. Then rebuild your slave ASAP after your MSF!!!
Quote from: IronBuddha on April 11, 2012, 09:17:33 PM
PS
What the hell is a "Pink Stripe?"
IB
:diablo:
Oh man, no problem, you sound like you have your problem trouble shot!
When I bleed my clutch, I let gravity do it's thing.
Sure, it takes some time, but not as bad as you might think.
Good luck with your upcoming course, and get those repairs finished up!
See my avatar about the "pink stripe", it's a 1991 thing that most everybody has a comment for and I love the attentions it brings!
(You did know, that the 91s were the best year for FJs, right? Well, you do now!)
Leon
Quote from: baldy3853 on April 10, 2012, 07:16:27 AM
LEON
Shall be a pleasure we'll have a few sherberts to celebrate a rarity :drinks:
baldy
I'd be happy to drink with you Baldy, but my Australian Slang dictionary has no entry for "sherberts".
Are you toasting me with some f-king colored ice cream! :biggrin:
http://www.koalanet.com.au/australian-slang.html#J (http://www.koalanet.com.au/australian-slang.html#J)
Damn internets, I sure hope when we meet, we won't need a translator! :shout:
Leon
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 11, 2012, 11:36:19 PM
Quote from: baldy3853 on April 10, 2012, 07:16:27 AM
LEON
Shall be a pleasure we'll have a few sherberts to celebrate a rarity :drinks:
baldy
I'd be happy to drink with you Baldy, but my Australian Slang dictionary has no entry for "sherberts".
Are you toasting me with some f-king colored ice cream! :biggrin:
http://www.koalanet.com.au/australian-slang.html#J (http://www.koalanet.com.au/australian-slang.html#J)
Damn internets, I sure hope when we meet, we won't need a translator! :shout:
Leon
Leon.... sherberts = beers
Harvy
Quote from: Harvy on April 11, 2012, 11:48:27 PM
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 11, 2012, 11:36:19 PM
Quote from: baldy3853 on April 10, 2012, 07:16:27 AM
LEON
Shall be a pleasure we'll have a few sherberts to celebrate a rarity :drinks:
baldy
I'd be happy to drink with you Baldy, but my Australian Slang dictionary has no entry for "sherberts".
Are you toasting me with some f-king colored ice cream! :biggrin:
http://www.koalanet.com.au/australian-slang.html#J (http://www.koalanet.com.au/australian-slang.html#J)
Damn internets, I sure hope when we meet, we won't need a translator! :shout:
Leon
Leon.... sherberts = beers
Harvy
Thanks Harv, that was my guess!
Leon
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 11, 2012, 11:18:16 PM
Quote from: IronBuddha on April 11, 2012, 09:17:33 PM
PS
What the hell is a "Pink Stripe?"
IB
:diablo:
Oh man, no problem, you sound like you have your problem trouble shot!
When I bleed my clutch, I let gravity do it's thing.
Sure, it takes some time, but not as bad as you might think.
Good luck with your upcoming course, and get those repairs finished up!
See my avatar about the "pink stripe", it's a 1991 thing that most everybody has a comment for and I love the attentions it brings!
(You did know, that the 91s were the best year for FJs, right? Well, you do now!)
Leon
Well Dudes...I finally have a happy ending to my post. I can't believe the amount of post there are here on this site. I can't wait to start bombing around this site. Anyway, the main seal was so bad that it just fell apart in my hands!!! It was really shot. The rubber was just brittle. I even saw strands of that damned bandanna right up close and personal around that failed seal. I guess it was getting ready to go anyway, and the extra friction of the cloth helped it out. The STRANGEST thing I found, and glad that I corrected, was the huge 36mm nut (I don't have the # diagram handy, but you all know what I'm talking about) that holds the sprocket on. After I peeled back the small metal stays/washer that keep the nut from turning, the damn thing was on there HAND-TIGHT!!! I just turned it off with my hand!! Well, I hope nobody comes back and tells me that its supposed to be like that, because after I replaced the main seal, I snugged that sucker up good! I know there has to be a torque value for that nut, but I didn't have the reference with me. That part of the evolution really freaked me out.
Lastly, after a couple hours of pumping, I finally got the clutch bled real good. I'm back on the road with no apparent leaks. I'm trying not to overdue riding the bike very hard. I'm wondering if that seal takes time to wear in or something. Also, I wasn't sure how far to seat that thing in, so I tried my best to make it flush. So far no leaks, but I may have seen just a slight "moisture" of oil pooling off the bottom of the engine, but not enough to drip off. I think that may have came from the seal as it is seating in there. If anybody can shed some light on that, it would be much appreciated.
adios amigos and THANKS,
IB :bye2:
I've seen several hand tight countershaft sprocket nuts. I don't really think it's a big problem as long as the retainer is in place. The shaft is splined and there is practically no side load on the sprocket trying to force it off.
That said, I would recommend torquing it to spec, which I think is around 60 ft-lb (?)
DavidR.
Thanks SOG,
You know I think I'm still getting a slight weeping from that seal. Its not much. It makes a very small spot on the pavement. I really don't care at this point though unless it gets worse. Its not even enough to wet the chain anymore. Maybe the seal didn't quite seat perfectly.
Take care,
IB