Just getting bike out and I do not have pressure in clutch lever. I bled line down. Still no pressure. Any help??
Bleed it again.
If you're not getting massive leaks (check the slave end on the motor for dripping), then you just have air.
The FJ clutch is notoriously nasty to bleed, though you learn how to do it better as you go. Seems to me that I don't have problems bleeding it now, but I move the lever all of 1/2" at a time (seems to work best).
Quote from: pj166 on July 19, 2009, 01:04:03 PM
Just getting bike out and I do not have pressure in clutch lever. I bled line down. Still no pressure. Any help??
After installing a rebuild kit for the slave cylinder, I used a hand held vacumn pump to draw out the air in the line to bleed the system. They cost around $25-40 at the parts store. Also works like a champ on pretty much any bike/auto brake system.
Have fun bleeding!
Ozz
(Glen)
I recently rebuilt my clutch slave and master. The salve was leaking and figured if I was gonna break the system open, might as well get both done and not worry about when the master was gonna go. I used George's recommendation after attempting to bleed it by the clutch lever. I used a syringe to pull the fluid through the slave. The Teflon tape on the bleeder threads is a must. Now that I have done this once, I could bleed the clutch very quickly next time. Thanks George. :good2:
I used a vacuum pump-bleeder. Worked great, no problem at all and a lot faster too. Thanks for the suggestion.
Quote from: andyb on July 19, 2009, 06:54:26 PM
Bleed it again.
If you're not getting massive leaks (check the slave end on the motor for dripping), then you just have air.
The FJ clutch is notoriously nasty to bleed, though you learn how to do it better as you go. Seems to me that I don't have problems bleeding it now, but I move the lever all of 1/2" at a time (seems to work best).
please elaborate- notoriously nasty to bleed! i have a new master installed slave is cleaned & honed appears ok , i cant build pressure no matter how much i bleed, is the problem that there is a air bubble in slave cylender thats hard to remove, or am i still missing something here? please help , draw from slave bleeder with vacum im hopeing that will work, are we trying to bleed till all little bubbles stop at master cylender? why so hard to build pressure?
Can you see that a bubble of air is trapped the master reservoir? If you are not sure then double check the short rod that goes from the lever into the master piston. I re-bleed my clutch 3 or 6 times (used a syringe at the slave) and was ready to go ballistic when I stopped and looked for other causes. The lever felt weak and spongy, worse than before I rebuilt the slave and master. Reversing the rod reduces the travel of the lever and prevents the piston in the master from getting a full stroke. Once I flipped the rod around, I discovered that I had in fact bleed the system properly 3 to 6 times in a row. Might be a simple stupid thing but it was kicking my ass till I used my brain. Made me realize my brain might good for other things too...... :crazy:
If you are bleeding from the slave then it is also very important to seal the threads of the bleeder with Teflon pipe tape. Failing to do so will allow air to get sucked in through the same threads and the bubbles never stop.
Hang in there, you will get it fixed and back in the Kookaloo zone. :empathy3:
I just saw this on FleaBay, might be helpful. Still need to tape the threads. The vacuum method keeps air from returning with out the check valve. Just another $0.02 of free advice.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Yamaha-FJ1100-FJ1200-Brake-Speed-Bleeders_W0QQitemZ390106969697QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item5ad42ff661 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Yamaha-FJ1100-FJ1200-Brake-Speed-Bleeders_W0QQitemZ390106969697QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item5ad42ff661)
In cases where I have difficulty bleeding I usually ensure that there are no air "traps" in the system and strap the lever to the grip with a zip tie. The next step is to head upstairs, grab a cold beverage and watch some TV. ( times out of 10 when I check it in the morning the air is out and I can move on to more entertaining jobs.
As a preventative I strap down the brake lever with a zip tie the day before any track day or trip regardless of when I last bled the system. (2-3 times a year for fluid flush/bleeding) My YZF has a cable operated clutch so that is not an issue for me.
ok i have brand new yamaha master cylender, ive pumped & bled & twiddled till blue in the face, now im gonna tie lever back & go inside for the beverage thing & see if that works! i cant believe im haveing such a hard time getting this to work, if i put on a new slave whould i still have the same bleeding no pressure issues? signed befuddled!
Short answer is yes. The FJ clutch system, once air is introduced, can be difficult to bleed completely.
Biggest thing to know is that you only have to move the clutch lever about 2cm per pull, past that you're likely wasting your time. It helps to change position, wiggle lines, and often it helps to simply walk away from it for awhile (particularly overnight), just don't leave the master open to air/humidity, cover it up.
I rebuilt my slave cylinder this summer.I tried to bleed it with a syringe from the slave cylinder but nothing worked so I approched the probleme diffrentely, I inject the fluid into the system with the syringe from the slave cylinder so all the bubbles went up into the reservoir, moving the lever a little so that no air would be in the master cylinder and it worked!!! never touched it since.
Alain
Interesting, I would not think pushing the fluid up would work, but the air wants to rise, not go down. Good to know. I like ending the day smarter than I started it. Thanks. :praising:
you're welcome!!
Alain
Quote from: wavygravy on October 25, 2009, 02:09:42 PM
ok i have brand new yamaha master cylender, ive pumped & bled & twiddled till blue in the face, now im gonna tie lever back & go inside for the beverage thing & see if that works! i cant believe im haveing such a hard time getting this to work, if i put on a new slave whould i still have the same bleeding no pressure issues? signed befuddled!
I went through the same thing last June... I rebuilt the master, then saw that I also needed to rebuild the slave (couldn't tell before I had a good master ;) ).
It took a few days of bleeding to get all the air out of the system each time I had it open, but I finally got it good enough to work. However, I was puzzled most of the summer by the fact that whenever I rode it, I'd get air back in the line, and I couldn't find the leak. I finally figured out that I hadn't put enough sealant on the two long bolts that hold the slave on (I'd used a little, on the threaded part, but apparently not enough).
If you had the slave off to check it, you probably need to reseal those two bolts. I used Permatex # 2, two smallish beads 180* apart all down the length of each bolt, then twisted each bolt as I
slowly put it back in to spread the sealant around the diameter of the hole. Thus far, that has seemed to work.
HTH...
Cheers, and the duck says, "Kookaloo!" (http://i37.tinypic.com/73j709.gif)
Quote from: threejagsteve on October 26, 2009, 01:53:37 AM
I went through the same thing last June... I rebuilt the master, then saw that I also needed to rebuild the slave (couldn't tell before I had a good master ;) ).
It took a few days of bleeding to get all the air out of the system each time I had it open, but I finally got it good enough to work. However, I was puzzled most of the summer by the fact that whenever I rode it, I'd get air back in the line, and I couldn't find the leak. I finally figured out that I hadn't put enough sealant on the two long bolts that hold the slave on (I'd used a little, on the threaded part, but apparently not enough).
If you had the slave off to check it, you probably need to reseal those two bolts. I used Permatex # 2, two smallish beads 180* apart all down the length of each bolt, then twisted each bolt as I slowly put it back in to spread the sealant around the diameter of the hole. Thus far, that has seemed to work.
HTH...
Cheers, and the duck says, "Kookaloo!" (http://i37.tinypic.com/73j709.gif)
Hmmm... sealant on the slave cylinder bolts.
That's a new one on me.
David, how long has it been since Keith and I had our slave cylinder rebuild race in Boone?
I guess I won because I skipped a step. :pardon:
Randy T
Indy
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 26, 2009, 06:52:39 AM
Hmmm... sealant on the slave cylinder bolts.
That's a new one on me.
David, how long has it been since Keith and I had our slave cylinder rebuild race in Boone?
I guess I won because I skipped a step. :pardon:
Randy T
Indy
FWIW, it's in the book... and doing it seems to have cured my slow leak. :good2:
Quote from: threejagsteve on October 26, 2009, 07:03:12 AM
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 26, 2009, 06:52:39 AM
Hmmm... sealant on the slave cylinder bolts.
FWIW, it's in the book... and doing it seems to have cured my slow leak. :good2:
?? Not to quibble, but how does sealant, on bolts OUTSIDE of a closed system 'cure' a leak within it? Maybe sealant around the outside perimeter of the slave would keep the leaking fluid from dripping out (and ruining the paint), but the bolts?
When I did my slave, as I said it was a close system, you can remove those three bolts and the slave comes free and will hang by the hydraulic line all day without leaking, if the seal is good. This can all be done without bleeding the system.
Anyone have any guesses as to how Steve was able to fix a leaky slave by applying sealant to the bolts?
Scrathin' my head.
Dan
I was wondering the exact same thing.... wtf?? :unknown:
it was magic.
For those of you having bleeding problems there is another way.
no vac pump
no syringe
less mess
simply open the bleeder first,then pull the lever,while lever is in the pulled in position close bleeder.
release the lever.
repeat until fluid comes out of the bleeder.
when a steady stream comes out of the bleeder, you may now bleed normally.
normally means.
tube over bleeder into jar of fluid.
pull lever and hold ,open bleeder and watch for bubbles,close bleeder and release lever.
repeat as needed.
of course keep reservoir from going dry.
this method takes 2-3 minutes and you are ready to ride. :good2:
The same way I have always done it. I use a clear hose so I can see the bubbles. Always worked for me without fail.
Quote from: Dan Filetti on October 26, 2009, 07:44:39 AM
Quote from: threejagsteve on October 26, 2009, 07:03:12 AM
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 26, 2009, 06:52:39 AM
Hmmm... sealant on the slave cylinder bolts.
FWIW, it's in the book... and doing it seems to have cured my slow leak. :good2:
?? Not to quibble, but how does sealant, on bolts OUTSIDE of a closed system 'cure' a leak within it? Maybe sealant around the outside perimeter of the slave would keep the leaking fluid from dripping out (and ruining the paint), but the bolts?
When I did my slave, as I said it was a close system, you can remove those three bolts and the slave comes free and will hang by the hydraulic line all day without leaking, if the seal is good. This can all be done without bleeding the system.
Anyone have any guesses as to how Steve was able to fix a leaky slave by applying sealant to the bolts?
Scrathin' my head.
Dan
I'll be damned if I know
why it worked either... but it IS on p. 5-25 of the manual, and it DOES seem to have worked.
Quote from: delarbreavous on October 25, 2009, 08:07:28 PM
I rebuilt my slave cylinder this summer.I tried to bleed it with a syringe from the slave cylinder but nothing worked so I approched the probleme diffrentely, I inject the fluid into the system with the syringe from the slave cylinder so all the bubbles went up into the reservoir, moving the lever a little so that no air would be in the master cylinder and it worked!!! never touched it since.
Alain
this little tip did the trick for me ! after fanning the clutch lever & turning the bleeder a million times, bubbles came up in res , then let go of clutch, pressure buildup-resistance & shazam ive got clutch!! & i didnt even seal the bolts! :drinks:
FWIW and I know it's a little late but you could save yourself vast amounts of time simply by reverse filling the system to start with. The Yamaha clutch master piston assembly has a squiffy little archimedes screw in it that holds lots of air. Air bubbles rise not fall unless you're using the special anti-gravity fluid. It's one hell of a lot easier to push the bubbles back up than suck or push them all the way through the master system and down the line and through the slave and out the bleeder. And the only equipment you'll need is a squeezy bottle or big syringe with a short tube to connect it to the bleed screw. Drain the old fluid out first. Wrap some teflon tape around the bleed screw, leave it open about one and a half turns. Remove the master reservoir lid. Attach bottle to bleed screw and squeeze gently until the fluid appears in the master reservoir. pull the lever in a few times and squeeze until no more bubbles come out. You may have to siphon a bit of fluid out of the reservoir if it gets too full...DON"T let it overflow on your lovely paintwork. No bleeding required, works every time, costs almost nothing and ensures you have clean fluid in the system because addnig new fluid to old fluid of unknown origin is not the best. I use an old shampoo bottle and a bit of neoprene tube.
This topic came up with monotonous regularity on the old Yahoo group and I posted pics and description way back. It works on cars and anything else hydraulic too
Ned
Ted is absolutly correct! I know I'm a newbie here, but, I'm also an ASE Master Automotive Tech. Force bleeding any hyd. system from the bottom pushes the air up which is where it wants to go anyway. I rebuilt my clutch slave and master not long ago and used a small syringe to "bleed" the system, 10 min. tops, ready to ride.
went through a similar thing, slave cylinder leaking had no clutch from tenterfield to newcastle, went to yamaha shop after i pulled the seal out, was told is a whole unit!!! to replace, got a bit upset at them and then rang round everywhere, the 1200 will take 1100 seals for it but the slave cylinder will need resleeving, hear its a stainless steel sleeve and that it has to be machined out ( no wukkas give me a lathe) had no troubles bleeding it and is ok to fairly good will not hold a full resevoir of fluid it will squirt it out, but about half to 3/4 full it works. bodgy i know but funds at the moment are low. will fix it when im richer ( tho bikes make me poorer) one day i will strip the thing clean polish and clean clean clean and replace. now is the time to buy stocks in autosol :biggrin:
Kopfjaeger,
OK, first lesson..... Do NOT believe ANYTHING a dealer tells you. They lie.
There is a rebuild kit from Yamaha that contains the 2 seals for the slave. You can get the part number from: http://www.yamahasportsplaza.com/pages/parts/viewbybrand/default.aspx (http://www.yamahasportsplaza.com/pages/parts/viewbybrand/default.aspx)
Also Randy (rpm@swaybar.com) I think that's his email, is a list member and has a slave rebuild kit that contains the seals and the spring. See suppliers list for more info.
2nd lesson..... Buy your genuine Yamaha parts from US suppliers. The price will be about 40% cheaper AFTER paying for airmail delivery and you'll get it quickere.
Cheers,
Arnie
The slave cylinder is NOT a stainless steel sleeve. It's just aluminum. Clean up any corrosion in the bore with 320 to 600 grit then polish with metal polish. Also remove any rust from the piston.
DavidR.