Getting ready to rebuild (oil seal kit) and change the oil on my front forks (1989). I would love to be able to say that I can handle it without any problems, but I'm not that confident. Is there anyone around Houston Texas that would be willing to educate me while I perform this task? I cannot afford to be without my daily transportation for more than a scheduled weekend. If I were to screw it up from doing something stupid, it would not be good. Anyone? :flag_of_truce:
Build the damper rod holder and seal driving tools first and it shouldn't be a problem.
I'm in Plano, not exactly close to Houston, but if you have a problem just chime in here. Plenty of members have lots of experience with FJ forks.
DavidR.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on August 04, 2010, 01:04:58 PM
Build the damper rod holder and seal driving tools first and it shouldn't be a problem.
I'm in Plano, not exactly close to Houston, but if you have a problem just chime in here. Plenty of members have lots of experience with FJ forks.
DavidR.
I can handle the tool building. Just not comfortable doing it first time alone, since I have no experience in that area. Hate the thought of taking/paying a dealer or repair shop. Would love to learn how to do it myself, just a little leary of the whole thing.
It's a lot more simple than you think.
Couple of things to watch out for.
The bolt at the bottom of the fork holding the damper rod can be very difficult to get out. An air impact gun is very helpful.
When re-installing the fork cap with the "D" shaped rod, it can be frustrating to re-install it correctly. When everything is lined up, it will just fall into place.
It just seems more difficult than it actually is. If you can change your own oil, you can rebuild the forks no problem. :)
its not as hard as you think, but does take a bit of time and it is helpfull to have a second set of hands for unscrewing the lower bolt while holding the 36mm tool that goes into the upper stanchion and for pulling the stanchion apart from the lowers as this takes a good pop.
once the fork legs are removed the fork caps must be removed it helps to loosen these off before removing the forks from the fork clamps. slacken off the preload and then use a 27mm external headed socket to loosen the cap a turn or two before dropping the forks out of the top yolk.
I use a bottle jack to support the front of the bike by the oil sump. Once the forks are removed you can take the fok caps off being carfull that they do not spring out of the fork as you unscrew them. Once the caps are removed along with the spring tip the oil out (good to have a supply of rags around) pump the forks up and down to get the reamaining oil out.
when the forks are empty use a 10mm allen key and a 27mm external socket with a couple of long extensions down the inside of the fork leg. I made the external socket by welding a bolt with a 27mm head into an old socket that I could fit a 1/2 drive socket into. I have seen a tool made from bar stock with a T handle to do the same thing.
When you have loosened the allen screw prise the dust seal out very gently with a small screw driver and then remove the internal circlip with a pair of needle nose pliers. You can then pull the forks apart by placing the lower in a vice wrapped in a rag to protect the finish or get a mate to hold it and give it a good pop to seperate. This is when all the washers and bushes etc come out and you need to put these back in the same oreder that they come out in.
once apart you can remove the oil seal and inspect the fork bush this is the ring that sits below the oil seal and has a teflon coating if this is damaged or worn you will have brand new seals that still leak. inspect it to see if it is scored or if the coating has been worn away. If this is the case the bush will look copper colored and is unserviciable and needs replacing.
Now re-assemble in the reverse order by placing the stanchions into the lowers and carefully driving the top bush into place and then pushing the fork seal into place. The internal circlip should then fit into place if it does not the bush has not been driven far enough in. Replace the circlip and the dust seal, then insert the spring with the tighter coils at the top. You now need to fill the forks with oil and mesure the airgap before replacing the fork caps. As others have said when the D shaped rod fits it all drops into place. Tighten the whole lot up and replace the forks making sure that you torque them up once the fork clamps have been tightened.
hope this helps.
Best way to get the damper rod bolt loose is to do it 1st, while the fork springs are in. Barring that, put the damper rod holding tool in and turn the ass'y over, so you have access to the bolt and can hold the tool in by resting it on the floor... assuming no helpers. I've used a broomstick to hold the damper rod before...
Hey Bob,
Assuming that you have built the 27mm damper rod holder, I found that it was easy to get the bottom damper rod bolt out by leaving the fork tubes in the triple clamps,and extending the 'damper rod holder' down the tube to the damper rod, and while an assistant holds that wrench, you can get the damper rod bolt off with a 10mm (?) hex head wrench on the bottom of the fork slider. You can then (forcefully) remove the slider from the fork tube. --then take the fork tube off the bike for rebuild / reassembly.
I think it would help to check out http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1911.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1911.0) in the files section. This write up includes installing emulators, however aside from you not having to cut your damper adjuster rods, drill out damper rods, and sliding the emulators in, it pretty much goes through rebuilding the forks and putting them back together, (you will have to ensure that the "D" shaped rod goes back into the damper adjuster correctly as pdxfj mentioned earlier. The rods are cut off when installing emulators so there is no talk of lining up the D shaped rod to the D shaped slot in the top of the damper rod in the write up.) This is starting to sound harder that it is. :pardon: Check out the article, I think you'll see that it is very doable.
Mark
The only thing I see missing in all this advice is to remember to remove the Damper Rod Locating Screw on the backside and at the bottom of the slider. It's a special phillips head screw that looks like the oil drain screw on the side of the slider. If you don't remove this bolt prior to torqueing ont he damper rod and the damper rod twists when you're breaking the 10mm allen head bolt loose, teh locating screw will bend and become useless.
DavidR.
well spotted slow old guy missed that bit.
Quote from: pdxfj on August 04, 2010, 04:13:36 PM
It's a lot more simple than you think.
It just seems more difficult than it actually is. If you can change your own oil, you can rebuild the forks no problem. :)
All this explanation sounds nothing like changing the oil. I am probably an overqualified mechanic when it comes to a car, but on motorcycles I am at a loss.
Excellent write up on "how to" that was attached by markmartin. Hopefully that will get me where I need to go.
One more question. Randy offers two different kits to do the forks. One comes with the bushings and one without. Is the only way to tell if the bushing is needed or not is wait until I have the forks apart?
change the bushings when you have it apart, so yes order the kit with them in it.
very easy to do when it is all apart . :good:
the first time you change the seals will take you some time to do.
the second time will be quicker.
the third time you will be mega-quick.
I recommend installing race-tech emulators while you have it apart , cause you are just gonna do it later anyway.
If you just bite the bullet and do it now you will save yourself a lot of this :dash2:
Quote from: Mark Olson on August 05, 2010, 12:26:46 PM
change the bushings when you have it apart, so yes order the kit with them in it.
I recommend installing race-tech emulators while you have it apart , cause you are just gonna do it later anyway.
If you just bite the bullet and do it now you will save yourself a lot of this :dash2:
If money was pulled from a magic tree in my back yard, I would agree with you totally. Unfortunately I don't have funds like that. I need to go the least expensive way possible, but do not want to do the same job twice by being a cheap-ass. I will probably end up going with the bushing kit, but emulators are out of the budget. Thanks for the recommendation though. I will I could...... :sorry:
at least you will have fresh forks and it will feel better than it is now.
good luck on the seals :good2:
I am also working on my 89, I took them apart last night with some help from a few guys. So far not that bad of a job just smells like shit when you open them.lol Anyways I will watch for your post and see if I can help you with anything. If you would like I can give you my number and you can call if you get stuck. This is also my first time doing this job and so far pretty easy. Didnt want to take it to a shop so I can save money to do the rear wheel conversion :good2:
Good luck
Quote from: courtsdaddy on August 08, 2010, 08:43:59 AM
I am also working on my 89, I took them apart last night with some help from a few guys. So far not that bad of a job just smells like shit when you open them.lol Anyways I will watch for your post and see if I can help you with anything. If you would like I can give you my number and you can call if you get stuck. This is also my first time doing this job and so far pretty easy. Didnt want to take it to a shop so I can save money to do the rear wheel conversion :good2:
Good luck
Not much fear of taking it all apart. Putting it all back together and having it functional is where I'm not too sure. I'm planning to upgrade my spring weight to 1.05 kg, so that will also add to my confusion. I know I will eventually figure it out though. PM me your phone info, and I will safe it for an emergency back-up plan. :good: Thanks
Ok....Got most of it torn down at the moment. I am unable to get the two pieces apart that require more than one person. (loosening the top with special socket and the bottom with the 10mm Allen socket.) I guess that's why "it takes two people". :dash2: Problem is I'm alone. My wife is not very strong and my favorite useful neighbor is out until later. Any other methods? Or shall I continue my hunt for "someone with a strong back and a weak mind"?
Scooter,
Last time I took my forks apart, I had no helper either. Just put your 27mm hex with the extentions into a vise to hold the damper rod, and use your 10mm hex key on the bottom.
It is much easier if you use a 'rattle' gun, but you can do it with a normal allen key held by a pair of vise-grips or channel lock for increased leverage. Its actually the next step thats hard. Pulling the tube out of the stantion requires that you slide it HARD to get it out.
Cheers,
Arnie
Maybe a 2' -3' length of pipe over the handle of the top wrench---thus making the wrench handle longer? This should provide more leverage for the person holding the top wrench .
Put it back in the triple tree so you can loosen the allen bolt in the bottom.
this also helps when you have to pull the tubes apart later. this way you don't crush the tube in a vice or send your helper flying across the floor.
make sure you have jack stands secure under the bike.
Tubes are still in triple tree. Bike on stands securely. Just don't have enough man-power to do it by myself. Stuck until neighbor gets home. :mad:
just let the forks and triples rotate to the stop(like turning right) and loosen the allen.
Quote from: Arnie on August 21, 2010, 10:26:37 AM
Scooter,
Last time I took my forks apart, I had no helper either. Just put your 27mm hex with the extentions into a vise to hold the damper rod, and use your 10mm hex key on the bottom.
It is much easier if you use a 'rattle' gun, but you can do it with a normal allen key held by a pair of vise-grips or channel lock for increased leverage. Its actually the next step thats hard. Pulling the tube out of the stantion requires that you slide it HARD to get it out.
Cheers,
Arnie
And make sure you remove the spring clip that retains the seal FIRST...... DAMHIK :dash1:
Most of the way done, but hardly any of this job was good news.....
-Did not heed the "remove spring clip" advice soon enough on the first tube. I think I got it straightened out enough that it will hold the new seal though.
-The left fork did not have the "D" rod in the correct hole, but that is also fixed now.
-Now the worst news.....BOTH of the front tubes are bent! I had no choice but to put it all back together, since I must have my daily driver. It just chaps my ass that it will all be for nothing (except practice) until I get new tubes. Right now it is all assembled with the bad tubes, but I haven't gotten to the test drive part yet, as it's too damn hot to finish today in this 100 degree Texas heat.
Anyone got a connection on some tubes for my '89? And a spring clip?
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/661_21_08_10_7_02_01.jpeg)
Bob, DON'T use those bent tubes. They will not work being bent and will be VERY DANGEROUS to ride on. Find another way to get around, this very well may get you killed if you try to ride it that way. No kidding here.....
Eric M
I'm not trying to be ignorant, so please excuse my questions if they sound rude.
Why is that so dangerous? I understand that they are bad, but what makes it so dangerous? After all, I've been driving them like that unknowingly for about 8 months now. A leak two weeks ago was the only indication of anything wrong. I have no choice but to use them until I can perform a miracle.
Quote from: Scooterbob on August 21, 2010, 09:04:17 PM
I'm not trying to be ignorant, so please excuse my questions if they sound rude.
Why is that so dangerous? I understand that they are bad, but what makes it so dangerous? After all, I've been driving them like that unknowingly for about 8 months now. A leak two weeks ago was the only indication of anything wrong. I have no choice but to use them until I can perform a miracle.
Have you been riding the bike with the front frok tubes bent like they are in the photo you posted??
Eric M
Yessiree.
Wow, how the hell do you bend a fork tube like that without being in a pretty serious accident? Seems to me that such an accident would otherwise be fairly obvious elsewhere on the bike, no?
Is there any other way to do it? Could a really hard wheelie landing do that kind of damage?
Dan
Previous owner. I shoulda looked closer before the purchase. No idea what that idiot did.
Oh Bob.
What. The. Fuck? Turn those wasted pipes around and we'll call you ChopperBob. So, was steering response sharp with your front wheel touching the header? This didn't look a little odd? Your secret penchant for stoppies on the FJ finally bit you in the ass, eh? Sorry to admonish you so sternly but even I'm not that foolhardy (or cheap, don't forget cheap!) DO NOT RIDE THAT! If my 84 tubes won't work I'm sure some saintly member will step up.
Doug
Quote from: carsick on August 21, 2010, 10:45:13 PM
Oh Bob.
What. The. Fuck? Turn those wasted pipes around and we'll call you ChopperBob. So, was steering response sharp with your front wheel touching the header? This didn't look a little odd? Your secret penchant for stoppies on the FJ finally bit you in the ass, eh? Sorry to admonish you so sternly but even I'm not that foolhardy (or cheap, don't forget cheap!) DO NOT RIDE THAT! If my 84 tubes won't work I'm sure some saintly member will step up.
Doug
Should have noticed the bend before I purchased the bike. :hang1: I figure that if I turn both bends towards one side or the other I bet I could corner lika muthurfuker in one direction!
Anyone able to make the call if the tubes will work? Part numbers match on the fiche, but still not sure.
There is a pair of forks on eBay that I have been watching (but don't need) for $45.80 including shipping. It's a "Buy It Now" auction so you could probably have them in your hands in a matter of three or four four to ten days. They are for a 1985 FJ though so check to see if you can interchange them.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250680931965&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250680931965&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT)
Anyone know if tubes from a 1984 will fit?
Quote from: Scooterbob on August 22, 2010, 09:11:03 AM
Anyone know if tubes from a 1984 will fit?
Both bikes use the same part numbers for the inner fork tubes...3CV-23110-00-00
Eric M
Quote from: Scooterbob on August 21, 2010, 08:10:05 PM
-Now the worst news.....BOTH of the front tubes are bent!
...
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/661_21_08_10_7_02_01.jpeg)
Wow, that's a pretty good bend.. take a pretty good shot to do that. I'd look close at the triple clamps too. Of course if the bend is uniform it may be hard to tell unless you have a good one to compare to.
Checked the rest as much as possible and it all looks good. The previous owner either replaced the obvious damage or it was never damaged. Only other clue I had when I bought it was a warped front rotor, which may have been from some sort of impact. Hard telling.
wow :shok:
those are some bent forks.
the result of running into a car bumper. :unknown:
it is a sign to install usd forks or upgrade to something better.
Quote from: SkyFive on August 22, 2010, 12:39:04 AM
There is a pair of forks on eBay that I have been watching (but don't need) for $45.80 including shipping. It's a "Buy It Now" auction so you could probably have them in your hands in a matter of three or four four to ten days. They are for a 1985 FJ though so check to see if you can interchange them.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250680931965&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250680931965&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT)
Bob, just buy these, they look nicer than mine, maybe they'll sell you faster shipping. I don't have the time to pull mine apart or ship them right now!
Quote from: carsick on August 22, 2010, 08:44:42 PM
Quote from: SkyFive on August 22, 2010, 12:39:04 AM
There is a pair of forks on eBay that I have been watching (but don't need) for $45.80 including shipping. It's a "Buy It Now" auction so you could probably have them in your hands in a matter of three or four four to ten days. They are for a 1985 FJ though so check to see if you can interchange them.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250680931965&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250680931965&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT)
Bob, just buy these, they look nicer than mine, maybe they'll sell you faster shipping. I don't have the time to pull mine apart or ship them right now!
One things for sure you most likely wont find a better deal than that..
Eric M
Great deal indeed. Unfortunately I cannot move on them until Wednesday at the earliest. What are the odds they will still be there?......,,.
Quote from: Scooterbob on August 22, 2010, 09:28:59 PM
Great deal indeed. Unfortunately I cannot move on them until Wednesday at the earliest. What are the odds they will still be there?......,,.
I'd say slim and none... Buy them now and pay wednesday thats what I'd do. Hell at that price they are damn near giving them away. You know what the inner tubes cost new.... Thats a hell of a deal for you...
Eric M
What Eric said. Then sell your surplus anti-dive units to some poor bastard worse off than you.
Swiped money from wifes' stash. (she gonna be mad, but she'll get over it :ireful:) Purchased the deal that SkyFive pointed out and they are on the way. Thanks SkyFive and everyone else that helped me located and gather the needed information. This forum in priceless! :drinks:
Update:(after a friendly reminder that I forgot to)
Got straight tubes installed with new seals, bushings, oil and upgraded springs. It feels like a totally different bike! No more stuttering on quick stops and my front wheel doesn't wobble anymore. (properly aligned now)
Much thanks to all who contributed knowledge, parts, and strong warnings not to ride with compromised parts, especially Carsick and SkyFive. :drinks:
welcome back to a properly handling motorcycle.... she thanks you!
KOokaloo!
(http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/168409-2/Tanker_dash_cam.gif?)
I made a fork cap/damper rod tool from a M18 nut and a chainsaw file. I noticed the hole was close to the size of a 1/2" drive; I make a few passes with the chainsaw file, holding the nut upright on my workbench, about halfway through the threads. I then turned it 180 and did the same on the other side. Holding it on point 90 from the first filings I did 2 more grooves such that I had 4 roughly 90 degrees apart inside the threaded hole. My 1/2" socket drive fit in the grooves, some duct tape around the drive provided a friction fit that held the nut in place. A couple extensions added and I was able to torque out the dampers quite easily, without welding. The nut cost me $1.40 at Ace Hardware, and I already had a chainsaw file. No welding needed! Forks rebuilt!!
It was awful in there, don't think the oil had been changed in a long time....
Duct tape and a chain saw file.....I can't wait for the photos. :good:
That's the way to do it. duct tape is your friend.
I think Splash is of New Zealand descent. I am envious I didn't come up with that solution first.
Doug