Replacing the pads on the rear brake of an 86 FJ1200. I've replaced the rotor with a better condition (i.e. thicker) used one, and got a fresh set of EBC FA88HH pads to install. The old pads (also EBC FA88HH but probably 17 years old) had shims installed but the new ones don't supply any shims. I have managed to lose one of the old shims so don't have the option to reuse them. Are they now designed to be used without shims or do I need to source some? If I need to use them where on earth do you source them? Thanks.
Not sure if the shims is critical i have ridden without them before but now i have them installed .You can buy them at yamaha dealer if RPM not have them.
About the pads i hope they are not same as i installed august 2020 they lasted only 4272 kilometres and i checked that the rear brakes did not hang on
Quote from: Old Rider on September 21, 2021, 02:30:26 PM
Not sure if the shims is critical i have ridden without them before but now i have them installed .You can buy them at yamaha dealer if RPM not have them.
About the pads i hope they are not same as i installed august 2020 they lasted only 4272 kilometres and i checked that the rear brakes did not hang on
Those are the organic compound pads, the HH version are sintered metallic and are a lot harder wearing.
Thanks, I see now that the shims are on the Yamaha parts fiche so should be able to get them that route if there is any consensus that I actually need them.
What are these "shims" you speak of?
Quote from: fj1289 on September 21, 2021, 05:08:03 PM
What are these "shims" you speak of?
Thin metal plates that clip on the back of the pad and are supposed to help mitigate heat transfer and squeal. Items 12 and 13 on the parts fiche here.
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/1986/fj1200s/rear-brake-caliper (https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/1986/fj1200s/rear-brake-caliper)
Interesting ... the front calipers (both early single piston and later dual piston) don't use shims?
Quote from: fj1289 on September 21, 2021, 07:43:59 PM
Interesting ... the front calipers (both early single piston and later dual piston) don't use shims?
I am really not sure. The parts fiche for the front calipers doesn't show them. The Haynes manual does not show them in either the front or rear brake exploded diagrams, but mentions correctly orienting 'pad shims' in the rear brake service directions. In the front brake write-up they mention not putting copper grease on the 'anti-rattle shims' but I suspect they are referring to the clip on the pins.
Quote from: pict on September 21, 2021, 11:58:49 PM
....they mention not putting copper grease on the 'anti-rattle shims' but I suspect they are referring to the clip on the pins.
Yes they are. Back in the day if was a popular habit to use copper grease on the back of the pads because it could withstand the heat, was a good conductor of it and it absorbed high frequency vibrations (squealing).
However, as this practice became popular with DIY's the idea that, if a little bit on the back of the pad is good more in other places must be better, such as the anti rattle plate which sits immediately above the pads. Long story short, that shit would end up everywhere, then they'd use chassis grease and so on.
Just about every manufacturer of automotive 'products in a can' makes a specific product for this application these days. You can walk into any accessory shop and this stuff will be on the shelf.
I think you'll find most EBC pads come with shims anyway. I've just replaced a few sets and that was the case with them all. If the pads you order don't have them and
if noise is a problem, I believe they will send a stick on patch for free.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/510BX9xkigL._AC_SY780_.jpg)
Somethings seriously wrong if you're only getting 2600 miles out of a rear brake pad. Caliper stuck? Resting your foot on the pedal? Dirt tracking your FJ???? :lol:
Quote from: Motofun on September 22, 2021, 06:52:33 AM
Somethings seriously wrong if you're only getting 2600 miles out of a rear brake pad. Caliper stuck? Resting your foot on the pedal? Dirt tracking your FJ???? :lol:
None of that my guess it has to be something wrong with the compound my rear brake pads usually last longer than that :smile:
I have installed another similar set 18th june and they have rolled a little over 2000km will take a look at them now since im doing some valve adjustment today.
Quote from: ribbert on September 22, 2021, 06:31:46 AM
I think you'll find most EBC pads come with shims anyway. I've just replaced a few sets and that was the case with them all. If the pads you order don't have them and if noise is a problem, I believe they will send a stick on patch for free.
The FA252HH sintered pads for the blue dots are the only ones currently supplied with a backing shim as far as I can see. The FA88/FF88V/FA88HH for the single pot calipers are all supplied without, as is the FA252 organic variant of the blue dot pad you pictured.
The local Yamaha dealer can source some shims in a month and want CAD$15 a shim, so I think I will just install without, and only revisit this if there are any noise issues as you say. I've checked and there are no shims installed on the front pads, so it can't be mission critical. Planning to use sparing quantities of high temp silicone grease on the pad backs and piston mating surface, and copper grease on the pins. I'll leave the plastering copper grease everywhere exercise for the centre stand pivots. There are some dangerously enthusiastic copper grease advocates out there. The attached pic is to my mind a <sarcasm> a little excessive </sarcasm>.
Fronts don't have them. Rear yes. When I installed back pads without the shims, squeaking was awful. Very loud and rather deep sound. I've never heard such deep squeaking from the brakes.
Also, I've never used copper grease or any similar products around brake pads.
Quote from: Old Rider on September 21, 2021, 02:30:26 PM
Not sure if the shims is critical i have ridden without them before but now i have them installed .You can buy them at yamaha dealer if RPM not have them.
About the pads i hope they are not same as i installed august 2020 they lasted only 4272 kilometres and i checked that the rear brakes did not hang on
Those are still good. Send them to me, I can squeeze another 10k from them. :biggrin:
Quote from: balky1 on September 22, 2021, 11:13:09 AM
Quote from: Old Rider on September 21, 2021, 02:30:26 PM
Those are still good. Send them to me, I can squeeze another 10k from them. :biggrin:
Ha ha ha okay just give me your adres :biggrin:
Here is a pic i took of same type pads that lasted 4200km they have now run 2215km
Quote from: pict on September 22, 2021, 09:12:39 AM
The local Yamaha dealer can source some shims in a month and want CAD$15 a shim, so I think I will just install without, and only revisit this if there are any noise issues as you say. I've checked and there are no shims installed on the front pads, so it can't be mission critical. Planning to use sparing quantities of high temp silicone grease on the pad backs and piston mating surface, and copper grease on the pins. I'll leave the plastering copper grease everywhere exercise for the centre stand pivots. There are some dangerously enthusiastic copper grease advocates out there. The attached pic is to my mind a <sarcasm> a little excessive </sarcasm>.
Just to recap on all this:
It's fine to ride it without the shims fitted.
If the brakes are noisy you can buy after market products from any auto accessory store to fix this. EBC sell specialty adhesive rubber mat that you cut to shape and stick to the back of the pad, it is made for just this purpose.
I'm all for using what's at hand but I wouldn't be using silicone grease on my brakes when purpose made products are readily available and cheap. I've never used it but the EBC product sounds good.
The pins don't need grease (not to be confused with caliper pins which do) and copper grease is an anti seize, not a lubricant.
Haha, love the photo. While not having seen that exact thing, I have witnessed similar stupidity many times.
Going racing with a well set up FJ sounds like a lot of fun, half your luck.
Quote from: ribbert on September 23, 2021, 06:30:11 AM
Just to recap on all this:
It's fine to ride it without the shims fitted.
If the brakes are noisy you can buy after market products from any auto accessory store to fix this. EBC sell specialty adhesive rubber mat that you cut to shape and stick to the back of the pad, it is made for just this purpose.
I'm all for using what's at hand but I wouldn't be using silicone grease on my brakes when purpose made products are readily available and cheap. I've never used it but the EBC product sounds good.
The pins don't need grease (not to be confused with caliper pins which do) and copper grease is an anti seize, not a lubricant.
Haha, love the photo. While not having seen that exact thing, I have witnessed similar stupidity many times.
Going racing with a well set up FJ sounds like a lot of fun, half your luck.
I just fitted the pads without shims for the time being. I'll revisit the issue if there is any noise persisting after bedding in. There seems to be a variety of lubricant recommendations out there and I just went with the way I have always done it and never had issues. I think the key words are 'sparing quantities'. i.e. zero excess that might migrate.