Do I need to use shims with EBC FA88HH pads?

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Replacing the pads on the rear brake of an 86 FJ1200. I've replaced the rotor with a better condition (i.e. thicker) used one, and got a fresh set of EBC FA88HH pads to install. The old pads (also EBC FA88HH but probably 17 years old) had shims installed but the new ones don't supply any shims. I have managed to lose one of the old shims so don't have the option to reuse them. Are they now designed to be used without shims or do I need to source some? If I need to use them where on earth do you source them? Thanks.

[Old Rider]

Not sure if the shims is critical i have ridden without them before but now i have them installed .You can buy them at yamaha dealer if RPM not have them.
About the pads i hope they are not same as i installed august 2020 they lasted only 4272 kilometres and i checked that the rear brakes did not hang on

[pict]

Not sure if the shims is critical i have ridden without them before but now i have them installed .You can buy them at yamaha dealer if RPM not have them.
About the pads i hope they are not same as i installed august 2020 they lasted only 4272 kilometres and i checked that the rear brakes did not hang on

Those are the organic compound pads, the HH version are sintered metallic and are a lot harder wearing.

Thanks, I see now that the shims are on the Yamaha parts fiche so should be able to get them that route if there is any consensus that I actually need them.

[fj1289]

What are these "shims" you speak of? 

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What are these "shims" you speak of? 

Thin metal plates that clip on the back of the pad and are supposed to help mitigate heat transfer and squeal. Items 12 and 13 on the parts fiche here.

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/1986/fj1200s/rear-brake-caliper

[fj1289]

Interesting ... the front calipers (both early single piston and later dual piston) don't use shims?

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Interesting ... the front calipers (both early single piston and later dual piston) don't use shims?

I am really not sure. The parts fiche for the front calipers doesn't show them. The Haynes manual does not show them in either the front or rear brake exploded diagrams, but mentions correctly orienting 'pad shims' in the rear brake service directions. In the front brake write-up they mention not putting copper grease on the 'anti-rattle shims' but I suspect they are referring to the clip on the pins.

[ribbert]

....they mention not putting copper grease on the 'anti-rattle shims' but I suspect they are referring to the clip on the pins.

Yes they are. Back in the day if was a popular habit to use copper grease on the back of the pads because it could withstand the heat, was a good conductor of it and it absorbed high frequency vibrations (squealing).

However, as this practice became popular with DIY's the idea that, if a little bit on the back of the pad is good more in other places must be better, such as the anti rattle plate which sits immediately above the pads. Long story short, that shit would end up everywhere, then they'd use chassis grease and so on.

Just about every manufacturer of automotive 'products in a can' makes a specific product for this application these days. You can walk into any accessory shop and this stuff will be on the shelf.

I think you'll find most EBC pads come with shims anyway. I've just replaced a few sets and that was the case with them all. If the pads you order don't have them and if noise is a problem, I believe they will send a stick on patch for free.

[Motofun]

Somethings seriously wrong if you're only getting 2600 miles out of a rear brake pad.  Caliper stuck?  Resting your foot on the pedal?  Dirt tracking your FJ?

[Old Rider]

Somethings seriously wrong if you're only getting 2600 miles out of a rear brake pad.  Caliper stuck?  Resting your foot on the pedal?  Dirt tracking your FJ?

None of that my guess it has to be something wrong with the compound my rear brake pads usually last longer than that  
I have installed another similar set 18th june and they have rolled a little over 2000km  will take a look at them now since im doing some valve adjustment today.

[pict]

I think you'll find most EBC pads come with shims anyway. I've just replaced a few sets and that was the case with them all. If the pads you order don't have them and if noise is a problem, I believe they will send a stick on patch for free.

The FA252HH sintered pads for the blue dots are the only ones currently supplied with a backing shim as far as I can see. The FA88/FF88V/FA88HH for the single pot calipers are all supplied without, as is the FA252 organic variant of the blue dot pad you pictured.

The local Yamaha dealer can source some shims in a month and want CAD$15 a shim, so I think I will just install without, and only revisit this if there are any noise issues as you say. I've checked and there are no shims installed on the front pads, so it can't be mission critical. Planning to use sparing quantities of high temp silicone grease on the pad backs and piston mating surface, and copper grease on the pins. I'll leave the plastering copper grease everywhere exercise for the centre stand pivots. There are some dangerously enthusiastic copper grease advocates out there. The attached pic is to my mind a <sarcasm> a little excessive </sarcasm>.

[balky1]

Fronts don't have them. Rear yes. When I installed back pads without the shims, squeaking was awful. Very loud and rather deep sound. I've never heard such deep squeaking from the brakes.
Also, I've never used copper grease or any similar products around brake pads.

[balky1]

Not sure if the shims is critical i have ridden without them before but now i have them installed .You can buy them at yamaha dealer if RPM not have them.
About the pads i hope they are not same as i installed august 2020 they lasted only 4272 kilometres and i checked that the rear brakes did not hang on

Those are still good. Send them to me, I can squeeze another 10k from them. 

[Old Rider]

Those are still good. Send them to me, I can squeeze another 10k from them. 

Ha ha ha okay just give me your adres

[Old Rider]

Here is a pic i took of same type pads that lasted 4200km they have now run 2215km