I took advantage of the Holiday sale at RPM and picked up another set of the Koso Apollo heated grips.
With cold weather setting in on most of North America and Europe. Casper was the only one left without headed grips. Now all 3 will be a bit more comfortable in temps down into the 40's and 30's.
Installation is easy and straight forward. One thing on the installation that i do a bit different is.... on the throttle tube, I use a utility knife and score the throttle tube both length wise and around the circumference. Also, I have found that the included super glue adhesive does not work very well once you start using the heat. I have had very good performance from Renthal Grip Glue. I know many use hair spray for regular grips. That does not work at all for these heated grips.
Fred
I love mine. I didn't need the glue on the throttle side, only the clutch side. I've never had to use the "Red" setting. Orange is plenty warm into the high 30's.
Fred or Rick, do they have a safety shut off so boneheads like me don't run my battery down?
They're wired to switched power, so they reset when you turn off the bike.
How many amps do they pull?
Comes with a 4 amp fuse, and there is a low battery cutoff circuit. I run them daily in the cold months for about an hour long commute. Never needed the hottest setting.
(https://kosonorthamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/AM111010_02.png)
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 09, 2020, 05:34:34 PMFred or Rick, do they have a safety shut off so boneheads like me don't run my battery down?
Pat,
For any heavy electrical load, it's a good idea to run a dedicated fused power wire from the battery to the switch contacts of a relay. Switch the relay ON and OFF with the ignition key, using a wire from an existing fuse, by using a Fuse Tap. Run the battery power (through the relay contacts) to the accessory needing it. This trick avoids any overloading of the existing bike wiring. The power needed to switch a relay is
very small. Everything gets switched off by removing the ignition key.
One alternative, to give you lots of fused power wires, is to use a
relay-switched Fuse Block. Feed it with direct battery power, and switch the power relay ON and OFF with a Fuse Tap. Same principal, and with more power lines for accessories.
Fuse Tap, here's how:
https://www.fjrowners.com/forums/1269703-post1.html (https://www.fjrowners.com/forums/1269703-post1.html)
(https://www.xmission.com/~red/FuseTap2.jpg)
.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 09, 2020, 05:34:34 PM
Fred or Rick, do they have a safety shut off so boneheads like me don't run my battery down?
Others may not like it. I wired mine directly to the battery. No worries about leaving them on accidentally. They have built in circuitry that turns them off when voltage is sensed at 11.5v.
Fred
Yeah, you're asking for trouble there, but if it works for ya...
Thanks Red, I have Oxford heated grips on my bikes.
The Oxford system uses a control box that velcro's to the inner fairing panel, and is directly wired to my battery. Good news is that this battery direct wiring bypasses my 36 year old wiring harness. The Bad news is that....unless there is a safety cut off, I will leave my grips on, which is not a good thing with a direct wired circuit.
The Oxford has a safety cut off...and a rather clever one at that. The control box senses the alternator output at the battery, so when the Oxford unit stops sensing the alternator sine wave, the unit automatically shuts off after 1 minute.
That said, I do like the clean Apollo setup.
I like how I can keep my hands on the grips and control the heat with my thumb.
With my Oxfords I have to take my left hand off to push the buttons on the control box. No big deal, but still....
If I'm concerned about pulling an extra 4 amps thru my old harness and switch, I can always put in a relay like we do with our coils and headlight....no biggie.
I put my Oxfords on around 8 years ago before Apollo's were made... They have been great, although I did damage the left side when using a grip tie to secure the bike...no problem, Oxford sent me a new grip for $18. If that would have happened with the Apollo's, I suspect it would cost a bit more.
Still.... I had to do it over, I think I would go with the Apollos and a key switched relay.
Fred, 11.5 volts is set for battery protection. You're gonna be walking unless your jump pack is handy.
Open Circuit Voltage .................... State of Charge
12.80 volts or greater....................... 100%
12.60 volts ..................................... 75%
12.30 volts ..................................... 50%
12.00 volts ..................................... 25%
11.80 volts ...................................... 0%
My FJ will not start when my AGM Battery has a OCV less than 12.30 volts.
Cheers
Quote from: ZOA NOM on December 09, 2020, 08:27:12 PM
Yeah, you're asking for trouble there, but if it works for ya...
True with some brands perhaps, but with the Oxfords, and the function that Pat describes, it doesn't matter (as long as it's a protected circuit). In fact, the instructions tell you to wire it directly to the battery.
I wore out my first set of Oxford heated grips after probably 150k, as in, literally wore through the grip. The first time this happened I lamented to the dealer that if not for that, they were in perfect order, he found a complete new LH unit from somewhere and provided it free.
Many, many years and more miles than most ride in a lifetime later, well after the warranty had expired, I had a problem with the grips again, it turned out to be a split grommet on the cable into the control unit that allowed moisture to enter and turn the circuit board furry, unbelievably, the dealer provided a new unit at no cost.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/8028/29314556223_282a542f87_c.jpg)
Needless to say, after service like that and a product I can't find any flaw in, I now have the current generation Oxfords and they continue to work flawlessly.
Two years ago I did a ride in Winter that saw them in constant use for 5000km, never turned off.
Noel
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 09, 2020, 08:28:43 PM
Thanks Red, I have Oxford heated grips on my bikes.
Just how many bikes do you have Pat, I always thought you only the red and silver one.
Noel
Same here with the oxfords, they were still working ok, only problem after years of use was the temp could be dialed up with the buttons but wouldn't go back down unless turned off and start again, plus the grips were completely worn out. The new unit doesn't have an on/off button like the old ones, just push the plus/minus button to turn on and regulate heat, plus there's less wiring than the old one. Mine is wired directly to the battery and haven't tried the low voltage function on these yet, but left the old ones on one morning at work only to find that afternoon that the bike would still wind over slowly but not enough to start it, a quick bump start in second gear got it going. Testing them out at standstill, with the heat turned right up and up to temp, they get that hot you can't put a bare hand on the grips.
Quote from: Bones on December 10, 2020, 04:45:55 AM
.... with the heat turned right up and up to temp, they get that hot you can't put a bare hand on the grips.
Tony, you live in QL, that could apply to the entire bike in Summer.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on December 10, 2020, 04:28:48 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 09, 2020, 08:28:43 PM
Thanks Red, I have Oxford heated grips on my bikes.
Just how many bikes do you have Pat, I always thought you only the red and silver one.
Noel
Correct, I am currently down to just one bike, but soon I'll be back up to two...thru the years I've had as many as 4. My friend Carson City Paul has 3 of them now.... two of the 3 have Oxfords on them, along with the Oxfords on my '84.
Hard to remember the days before heated grips and heated vests.
Quote from: ribbert on December 10, 2020, 05:33:51 AM
Quote from: Bones on December 10, 2020, 04:45:55 AM
.... with the heat turned right up and up to temp, they get that hot you can't put a bare hand on the grips.
Tony, you live in QL, that could apply to the entire bike in Summer.
Noel
That's true Noel, last Sunday it was 36deg up in the mountains of the Sunshine Coast hinterland. In all honesty, the grips don't get turned on much at all, haven't done any long rides in winter for a few years now.
Quote from: aviationfred on December 08, 2020, 05:00:06 PM
I took advantage of the Holiday sale at RPM and picked up another set of the Koso Apollo heated grips.
With cold weather setting in on most of North America and Europe. Casper was the only one left without headed grips. Now all 3 will be a bit more comfortable in temps down into the 40's and 30's.
Installation is easy and straight forward. One thing on the installation that i do a bit different is.... on the throttle tube, I use a utility knife and score the throttle tube both length wise and around the circumference. Also, I have found that the included super glue adhesive does not work very well once you start using the heat. I have had very good performance from Renthal Grip Glue. I know many use hair spray for regular grips. That does not work at all for these heated grips.
Fred
I like them a LOT. they are going to go well with my heated gloves from RPM. I am going to order now.
Thanks !
My luck. out of stock...
Quote from: Paul.1478 on December 11, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
My luck. out of stock...
They are on backorder with the supplier. I have several sets on order and they are scheduled back in stock around 12/21. Once they get them in, the automatically ship to us
Quote from: Paul.1478 on December 11, 2020, 12:48:32 PM
Quote from: aviationfred on December 08, 2020, 05:00:06 PM
I took advantage of the Holiday sale at RPM and picked up another set of the Koso Apollo heated grips.
With cold weather setting in on most of North America and Europe. Casper was the only one left without headed grips. Now all 3 will be a bit more comfortable in temps down into the 40's and 30's.
Installation is easy and straight forward. One thing on the installation that i do a bit different is.... on the throttle tube, I use a utility knife and score the throttle tube both length wise and around the circumference. Also, I have found that the included super glue adhesive does not work very well once you start using the heat. I have had very good performance from Renthal Grip Glue. I know many use hair spray for regular grips. That does not work at all for these heated grips.
Fred
I like them a LOT. they are going to go well with my heated gloves from RPM. I am going to order now.
Thanks !
The Fly Racing Ignitor Pro gloves (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=IgnitorProGlove) are a game changer for riding in colder weather. I had never considered heated gloves. While at the RPM rally last year, Randy showed me the gloves and he had high praises for them. I would have purchased a pair right then. He was out of stock in my size. I did place the order. The gloves do not have heated palms and the Koso grips do a great job providing heat to the palms of your hands.
Fred
So let me get this straight... You guys are connecting your heated grips directly to the battery, and relying on the Oxford's circuitry to keep your battery from draining? Can somebody explain why you would need your grips warm without the bike running?
Rick, yes, the Oxford connects directly to the battery and the power automatically shuts off the grip heaters when the alternator signal stops. You can turn them off manually, but if you forget, they will only run for 1 minute after your alternator stops.
The issue isn't needing to run the grip heaters when the bike is off....no need to do that, your switched circuit takes care of that, as does the Oxford shut off.....rather the issue is the direct wiring and not running any additional amperage thru my 36 year old system.
As Red points out, the same thing can be accomplished with the Apollo's and a relay.
(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-foeqwgrfpn/product_images/uploaded_images/el-wiring.jpg)
Ok. That makes sense if there's an alternator sensor. I agree that you don't want that current load going through your ignition switch. The Apollos come with a relay.
With the sort of riding I do, I've never been one to sacrifice function in favour of form, but there's a limit.
These things (heated) work a treat but at the cost of looking like a pizza delivery guy.
(https://www.procycles.com.au/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/25200-000_02-1.jpg)
I've tried them out, they really are good but they'll never grace my bike!
Noel
I used to have a set of hippo hands, very similar but unheated. I used them on my GN400 for the brutally cold commuting days.
Quote from: Waiex191 on December 12, 2020, 09:17:16 AM
I used to have a set of hippo hands, very similar but unheated. I used them on my GN400 for the brutally cold commuting days.
I think if I was commuting daily in the cold I would very quickly warm to the appearance of them, and just cop the pizza delivery jokes. They are comforting like warming your hands in front of an open fire.
Noel
Besides the hippo hands, I put an awful clear fairing on the GN. Plus I'd wear ski pants and a ski mask under my helmet. It was still cold. Now I just take the car. Too old for that foolishness.
I don't mind the cold at all. I wear a Firstgear one-piece thermal suit over my work attire and pop it into the V40 Givi Top Case when I get there in the morning. The warmer afternoon commute jacket is swapped for it on my way home. I don't mind cold, as long as there's no fog. That shit is a great way to get killed on a bike.
The Firstgear Suit :
(https://www.cyclegear.com/_a/product_images/0173/0902/firstgear_thermo1_piece_suit_black_silver_750x750.jpg)
I don't mind the cold - as long as it's not cold and wet a thing the same time - the road salt that's put down here during winter is a real pain in the #ss when it gets rained on and turn into a corrosion causing spray that gets everywhere.
If it gets extra cold, then I wear my wet suit dungarees under my 2 piece textile suit (with the thermal inner liners in place). That thing keeps me toasty in any temperatures and I always feel like wearing that 5mm thick neoprene suit underneath, will give some extra cushioning should I ever fall off in those conditions.
Quote from: Millietant on December 14, 2020, 03:53:28 AM
.... the road salt that's put down here during winter is a real pain in the #ss when it gets rained on and turn into a corrosion causing spray that gets everywhere.
Dean, one of my niche specialties for a long time has been pre war cars and I have prepared many a vehicle over the years for repatriation to the UK. Built in an era when rust prohibitors were unheard of, examples brought here when new or early in their life could now be 50-100 years old and still rust and corrosion free (they used a lot of alloy). This makes them very coveted cars that attract premium prices in the UK and worth shipping "home".
I sometimes look at photos of bikes and parts for sale in the UK and can't believe the corrosion.
Perhaps it's not fair to mention this, but yesterday I went riding in the country, 30c/86f deg, cloudless blues skies, lush growth everywhere and a light breeze heavily laden with the smell of Spring and Summer - magnificent!
I don't like riding in the peak of Summer and will use the time between Christmas and the end of January to carry out my annual maintenance, which consists of not riding the FJ for 6 weeks. :biggrin:
Our financial year ends June 30, unlike the US, so there is no pressure anywhere and the whole commercial world just about shuts down over that time and it feels like the entire country is on holidays, not a time to be hitting the roads. Minimum annual leave here is a month, plus accrued public holidays, days in lieu etc padding it out even further, some jobs such as Police and other emergency services getting 6 weeks paid leave and because of our weather over Christmas, everyone goes on holiday, mostly to the coast.
Noel
Quote from: RPM - Robert on December 11, 2020, 01:19:46 PM
Quote from: Paul.1478 on December 11, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
My luck. out of stock...
They are on backorder with the supplier. I have several sets on order and they are scheduled back in stock around 12/21. Once they get them in, the automatically ship to us
thanks Robert,
I will check again. Gloves I got from you are awesome. Looking forward to totally warm hands.