Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 24, 2019, 10:17:31 PM
Welcome mtc.....You are correct, No fuel filter should be used on the vacuum petcock 84/87 gravity flow FJ's
Make sure your fuel line route is correct. It is counter intuitive.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=18286.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=18286.0)
Cheers. Pat
thanks let's take a look
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190323_105954_zpsqo5rx1gw.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190323_105954_zpsqo5rx1gw.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190323_105929_zpsw3srhewa.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190323_105929_zpsw3srhewa.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190318_150908_zpshdlltucj.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190318_150908_zpshdlltucj.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190321_134736_zpsfhfr7qlo.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190321_134736_zpsfhfr7qlo.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190318_152644_zpsevd8ho1r.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190318_152644_zpsevd8ho1r.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190318_152644_zpsevd8ho1r.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190318_152644_zpsevd8ho1r.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190318_154232_zpsiosq1jeu.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190318_154232_zpsiosq1jeu.jpg.html)
Fuel line is incorrectly routed as pictured.
White plugs are common on FJ's due to the vacuum advance
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=11690.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=11690.0)
.... however, you are running the Dyna ignition which does not use the closed throttle advance.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 25, 2019, 12:10:38 AM
Fuel line is incorrectly routed as pictured.
White plugs are common on FJ's due to the vacuum advance
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=11690.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=11690.0)
.... however, you are running the Dyna ignition which does not use the closed throttle advance.
thank you thank you for the feedback,i'll fix the lines
maybe i blame not rejetting for the pods, as per PO, , told me he rebuilt and sync the carbs, but i don't think so... i am getting rid of the pods they inhale literally, need to read up on the vacume,
do you know if the stock cdi have the same advance curve that the dyna is so overrated for ? 15 at idle and up to 35 at 2500 rpm for position 1 which is stock 4 valves, and i simply don't want to be stranded nowhere, i did wrap it with foam and mounted it in the tail... thank you rpm for that bit of info i found
and
can i run a stock cdi with the dyna pickup, if yes i might get one as a spare and rid the dyna IF it is overrated
The early Dyna ignition boxes have a selector switch the user can set to define which ignition advance curve they want to run. IIRC they had 5 different fixed settings. The latest Dyna boxes have the ability to set a custom ignition curve via laptop.
Here is the advance curve on the oem TCI ignition
(http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad337/craigo987/FJ11001984ServiceManual269.jpg)
Note the two different advance curves...the upper curve is the closed throttle (high vacuum) advance used to flash off unburned fuel, part of the EPA smog regs, also why the FJ plugs look white.
The lower curve is the open throttle advance curve. We commonly advance this factory stock curve 3 to 5 degrees (across the board) via a aftermarket rotor or by elongating (slotting) the holes in the pick up coil mounting plate. My point is, you can safely run more advance that shown on the above table....if you properly jet your FJ (40.0 pilots, shimmed needles and 117.5 mains.) Advancing your ignition without adding fuel will bring on the marbles in your engine. Not good.
I don't know anyone running the stock TCI ignition box off the Dyna pick up coils....others please chime in.
Dyna's work fine until they don't work fine. What causes them to fail? Dunno, but I have my suspicions.
We are aware that FJ's suffer from over charging with spikes in excess of 15+ volts. The oem voltage regulator (VR) goes bonkers. My intuition says that if you want to keep your solid state components happy, like the Dyna ignition, you stabilize the electrical system's charging voltage so you don't get those crazy spikes.
I'm a firm believer of the remote mounted Transpo VR mod. (See the Files) Get that VR away from the effects of engine vibrations and heat. Besides, your AGM battery will thank you.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 25, 2019, 12:10:38 AM
White plugs are common on FJ's due to the vacuum advance
.... however, you are running the Dyna ignition which does not use the closed throttle advance.
I'm standing by the wasted spark that keeps the plugs looking lean. When the plug fires and there is no fuel present, it will burn off the normal carbon deposits left behind.
They Dyna system is still a wasted spark design.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 25, 2019, 01:14:46 AM
The early Dyna ignition boxes have a selector switch the user can set to define which ignition advance curve they want to run. IIRC they had 5 different fixed settings. The latest Dyna boxes have the ability to set a custom ignition curve via laptop.
Here is the advance curve on the oem TCI ignition
(http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad337/craigo987/FJ11001984ServiceManual269.jpg)
Note the two different advance curves...the upper curve is the closed throttle (high vacuum) advance used to flash off unburned fuel, part of the EPA smog regs, also why the FJ plugs look white.
The lower curve is the open throttle advance curve. We commonly advance this factory stock curve 3 to 5 degrees (across the board) via a aftermarket rotor or by elongating (slotting) the holes in the pick up coil mounting plate. My point is, you can safely run more advance that shown on the above table....if you properly jet your FJ (40.0 pilots, shimmed needles and 117.5 mains.) Advancing your ignition without adding fuel will bring on the marbles in your engine. Not good.
I don't know anyone running the stock TCI ignition box off the Dyna pick up coils....others please chime in.
Dyna's work fine until they don't work fine. What causes them to fail? Dunno, but I have my suspicions.
We are aware that FJ's suffer from over charging with spikes in excess of 15+ volts. The oem voltage regulator (VR) goes bonkers. My intuition says that if you want to keep your solid state components happy, like the Dyna ignition, you stabilize the electrical system's charging voltage so you don't get those crazy spikes.
I'm a firm believer of the remote mounted Transpo VR mod. (See the Files) Get that VR away from the effects of engine vibrations and heat. Besides, your AGM battery will thank you.
thank you thank you, i was wondering why the battery did not have caps, is AGM, good eye, i mounted the dyuna in the back yesterday and padded it up with a cut down yoga mat, idk what my VR looks like tho
Quote from: racerrad8 on March 25, 2019, 11:18:39 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 25, 2019, 12:10:38 AM
White plugs are common on FJ's due to the vacuum advance
.... however, you are running the Dyna ignition which does not use the closed throttle advance.
I'm standing by the wasted spark that keeps the plugs looking lean. When the plug fires and there is no fuel present, it will burn off the normal carbon deposits left behind.
They Dyna system is still a wasted spark design.
Randy - RPM
When I unplugged my vacuum advance (and capped it off) I noticed my plugs go from white to a tan color.
I'm currently running with no advance.....Yea, wasted spark helps keep the plugs clean, no doubt, but I think that the closed throttle ignition advancing to 50*btdc (55* with a VH advance rotor) Is causing the white color.
I have wasted spark in my Miata and my plugs aren't white.
Quote from: FJmonkey on March 24, 2019, 05:47:47 PM
Welcome to FJownership. There are a few of us in and around the Los Angeles area. Some active, others lurk quietly and then pop up at rallies. The weather is getting better for some rides so get the safety stuff sorted. Check under the tank. See if the fuel petcock has been wired to keep the elbow in. If not then get that done ASAP. plenty of past posts if you need more info.
thanks did it, you save another fj,
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190325_120340_zpsryac0p1r.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190325_120340_zpsryac0p1r.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190321_180420_zpswkq5atmn.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190321_180420_zpswkq5atmn.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190321_180420_zpswkq5atmn.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190321_180420_zpswkq5atmn.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190321_171245_zpsy9psgaiy.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190321_171245_zpsy9psgaiy.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190321_144322_zps7jzlh5ey.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190321_144322_zps7jzlh5ey.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190321_143208_zpsgdtdrdql.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190321_143208_zpsgdtdrdql.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190321_141259_zpstfzfql5t.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190321_141259_zpstfzfql5t.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190321_111606_zpsjtbenp84.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190321_111606_zpsjtbenp84.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190321_110719_zpsvrvtntme.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190321_110719_zpsvrvtntme.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190321_141247_zpsl6plkoje.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190321_141247_zpsl6plkoje.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190321_143413_zpsecpv7lxi.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190321_143413_zpsecpv7lxi.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190321_144207_zpsmhahy8sd.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190321_144207_zpsmhahy8sd.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190321_164913_zpszfj8nrqv.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190321_164913_zpszfj8nrqv.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190318_152644_zpsevd8ho1r.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190318_152644_zpsevd8ho1r.jpg.html)
Good fix, that will keep the elbow lock in. Now when you get fuel in the tank and you are ready to connect the fuel line... You should perform the suck test. With the fuel lines all connected properly take the vacuum line from the petcock that connects to the #2 carb boot and suck on it. The petcock has a vacuum powered needle valve connected to a diaphragm. Over time this diaphragm develops small holes. The holes eventually get large enough and the valve stays closed. The frustrating part is, it happens when you need fuel the most, you think you are running out of fuel. You pull over and check. Plenty of fuel. Start it back up and off you go. Then it happens again. Grrrrr.
When you suck on the vacuum line it should feel totally blocked. If you can slowly suck air then you have a leak. Make sure the hose is good by testing it by itself. A small leak may not be a problem, but a leak means you will eventually need to fix/replace it. Now hurry up and get riding while the weather is good.
Markus, I do believe you have set a forum record :good:
A newbie, only 10 posts in, and you already have him sucking on his petcock.
mtc, no, this is not some perverted form of initiation, although with Monkey Mark, you are never quite sure.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 25, 2019, 01:14:46 AM
The early Dyna ignition boxes have a selector switch the user can set to define which ignition advance curve they want to run. IIRC they had 5 different fixed settings. The latest Dyna boxes have the ability to set a custom ignition curve via laptop.
Here is the advance curve on the oem TCI ignition
(http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad337/craigo987/FJ11001984ServiceManual269.jpg)
Note the two different advance curves...the upper curve is the closed throttle (high vacuum) advance used to flash off unburned fuel, part of the EPA smog regs, also why the FJ plugs look white.
The lower curve is the open throttle advance curve. We commonly advance this factory stock curve 3 to 5 degrees (across the board) via a aftermarket rotor or by elongating (slotting) the holes in the pick up coil mounting plate. My point is, you can safely run more advance that shown on the above table....if you properly jet your FJ (40.0 pilots, shimmed needles and 117.5 mains.) Advancing your ignition without adding fuel will bring on the marbles in your engine. Not good.
I don't know anyone running the stock TCI ignition box off the Dyna pick up coils....others please chime in.
Dyna's work fine until they don't work fine. What causes them to fail? Dunno, but I have my suspicions.
We are aware that FJ's suffer from over charging with spikes in excess of 15+ volts. The oem voltage regulator (VR) goes bonkers. My intuition says that if you want to keep your solid state components happy, like the Dyna ignition, you stabilize the electrical system's charging voltage so you don't get those crazy spikes.
I'm a firm believer of the remote mounted Transpo VR mod. (See the Files) Get that VR away from the effects of engine vibrations and heat. Besides, your AGM battery will thank you.
yeah but will all this advancing a few degrees, amount to any performance gains? i guess if ti were new and peewee gleason was piloting, maybe he could have shaved off a 1/10?
dyna just got back to me
Thank you for your interest in Dynatek ignitions. Unfortunately, no, the Dyna Pro Series Crank Trigger will not work with the stock ignition module. It uses a different method of triggering. If we can be of any further assistance, please feel free to contact us anytime.
Scott Valentine
Dynatek
www.dynaonline.com (http://www.dynaonline.com)
P-800-928-3962
F-702-399-1431
Quote from: FJmonkey on March 25, 2019, 08:57:02 PM
Good fix, that will keep the elbow lock in. Now when you get fuel in the tank and you are ready to connect the fuel line... You should perform the suck test. With the fuel lines all connected properly take the vacuum line from the petcock that connects to the #2 carb boot and suck on it. The petcock has a vacuum powered needle valve connected to a diaphragm. Over time this diaphragm develops small holes. The holes eventually get large enough and the valve stays closed. The frustrating part is, it happens when you need fuel the most, you think you are running out of fuel. You pull over and check. Plenty of fuel. Start it back up and off you go. Then it happens again. Grrrrr.
When you suck on the vacuum line it should feel totally blocked. If you can slowly suck air then you have a leak. Make sure the hose is good by testing it by itself. A small leak may not be a problem, but a leak means you will eventually need to fix/replace it. Now hurry up and get riding while the weather is good.
thank you thank you, the little secrets that make me safe ... safety first, then when it safe to go fast go fast
Quote from: mtc on March 25, 2019, 09:22:51 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 25, 2019, 01:14:46 AM
The early Dyna ignition boxes have a selector switch the user can set to define which ignition advance curve they want to run. IIRC they had 5 different fixed settings. The latest Dyna boxes have the ability to set a custom ignition curve via laptop.
Here is the advance curve on the oem TCI ignition
(http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad337/craigo987/FJ11001984ServiceManual269.jpg)
Note the two different advance curves...the upper curve is the closed throttle (high vacuum) advance used to flash off unburned fuel, part of the EPA smog regs, also why the FJ plugs look white.
The lower curve is the open throttle advance curve. We commonly advance this factory stock curve 3 to 5 degrees (across the board) via a aftermarket rotor or by elongating (slotting) the holes in the pick up coil mounting plate. My point is, you can safely run more advance that shown on the above table....if you properly jet your FJ (40.0 pilots, shimmed needles and 117.5 mains.) Advancing your ignition without adding fuel will bring on the marbles in your engine. Not good.
I don't know anyone running the stock TCI ignition box off the Dyna pick up coils....others please chime in.
Dyna's work fine until they don't work fine. What causes them to fail? Dunno, but I have my suspicions.
We are aware that FJ's suffer from over charging with spikes in excess of 15+ volts. The oem voltage regulator (VR) goes bonkers. My intuition says that if you want to keep your solid state components happy, like the Dyna ignition, you stabilize the electrical system's charging voltage so you don't get those crazy spikes.
I'm a firm believer of the remote mounted Transpo VR mod. (See the Files) Get that VR away from the effects of engine vibrations and heat. Besides, your AGM battery will thank you.
yeah but will all this advancing a few degrees, amount to any performance gains? i guess if ti were new and peewee gleason was piloting, maybe he could have shaved off a 1/10?
dyna just got back to me
Thank you for your interest in Dynatek ignitions. Unfortunately, no, the Dyna Pro Series Crank Trigger will not work with the stock ignition module. It uses a different method of triggering. If we can be of any further assistance, please feel free to contact us anytime.
Scott Valentine
Dynatek
www.dynaonline.com (http://www.dynaonline.com)
P-800-928-3962
F-702-399-1431
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190321_144207_zpsmhahy8sd.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190321_144207_zpsmhahy8sd.jpg.html)
can someone tell me what the white wire is for? running the length of the frame on the right side and and spliced into the ignition swtich? and back to a fuse and to a harness near the battery?
The color coded wiring diagram is located in the back of your Owner's Handbook.
Don't have a Owner's Handbook? You need one....lots of good stuff inside.
From your description, it sounds like a new wire to the ignition switch running directly from the battery. Good that it's fused.
Possibly a fix for a faulty stock wire.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on March 26, 2019, 05:11:41 PM
From your description, it sounds like a new wire to the ignition switch running directly from the battery. Good that it's fused.
Possibly a fix for a faulty stock wire.
i guess i'll have to check, so you are saying 1 stock wire is 12v "hot" and should meter 12v?
is this something notorious with the fj's?
so the stock wire is powered directly from the battery as well?
thanks very much
It certainly looks like a PO has been messing with the electrics, so I'd go with Hooligan's thought of a "fix" to a previous problem. There are no extra loose wire's running outside of my loom and it does look like there are some home-done splices n your wiring. But if it works, that's all good :good2:
Quote from: Millietant on March 26, 2019, 08:21:04 PM
It certainly looks like a PO has been messing with the electrics, so I'd go with Hooligan's thought of a "fix" to a previous problem. There are no extra loose wire's running outside of my loom and it does look like there are some home-done splices n your wiring. But if it works, that's all good :good2:
the phote was of the dyna connection, i checked it against the instructions and they were good , the bike runs well albeit, the handlebars vibrate a bit much, the front wheel shimmies, and take off, and it does, not pull like a freight train, as i recalled , having an 84 in 87,
i think the pods filters has something to do with that,
looks like i have to trace the hot lead to the ignition and see if it has juice, i will when i can take close ups, thank you for your input much appreciated
Quote from: mtc on March 26, 2019, 06:01:30 PM
i guess i'll have to check, so you are saying 1 stock wire is 12v "hot" and should meter 12v?
is this something notorious with the fj's?
so the stock wire is powered directly from the battery as well?
thanks very much
Yes, there is a 12-volt hot fused wire going to the input side of the ignition. When you turn the ignition switch on, this 12-volt input becomes a "switched" 12-volt source for most of the electronics.
Not a chronic problem, but some people have had issues with the ignition switch itself. The original ignition hot wire is relatively small. A new thicker gauge FUSED wire from the battery to the ignition couldn't hurt.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on March 27, 2019, 05:19:19 PM
Quote from: mtc on March 26, 2019, 06:01:30 PM
i guess i'll have to check, so you are saying 1 stock wire is 12v "hot" and should meter 12v?
is this something notorious with the fj's?
so the stock wire is powered directly from the battery as well?
thanks very much
Yes, there is a 12-volt hot fused wire going to the input side of the ignition. When you turn the ignition switch on, this 12-volt input becomes a "switched" 12-volt source for most of the electronics.
Not a chronic problem, but some people have had issues with the ignition switch itself. The original ignition hot wire is relatively small. A new thicker gauge FUSED wire from the battery to the ignition couldn't hurt.
for some reason, the lock on the bike i just got did not lock. when i took it out, suddenly the key would not go in,luckily i bought the 18.00 ebay ignition lock is without a "P" position, so i lost the parking light( don't know what the heck that battery drain was therein the first place,
so it appears , until i can get to it tomorrow that the fused 12v wire running to the switch IS the "couldn't hurt " remedy the PO did, as a supplementary wire to the switch
so if he had not did what he did, what would or would have been the down side?
Quote from: mtc on March 27, 2019, 06:31:25 PM
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on March 27, 2019, 05:19:19 PM
Quote from: mtc on March 26, 2019, 06:01:30 PM
i guess i'll have to check, so you are saying 1 stock wire is 12v "hot" and should meter 12v?
is this something notorious with the fj's?
so the stock wire is powered directly from the battery as well?
thanks very much
ok i traced the wire, i took out the fuse the the key on the "ON" position energizes the bike,i.e. head light on, neutral light on , and the pictures show where the wire is coming and going,
thanks for your help again
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190328_115129_zpsxezwlssq.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190328_115129_zpsxezwlssq.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190328_111554_zpshfd8fehe.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190328_111554_zpshfd8fehe.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190328_111601_zpsqxutyodm.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190328_111601_zpsqxutyodm.jpg.html)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv159/Salsadancer383/20190328_113216_zpsrvcof3g4.jpg) (http://s679.photobucket.com/user/Salsadancer383/media/20190328_113216_zpsrvcof3g4.jpg.html)
Yes, there is a 12-volt hot fused wire going to the input side of the ignition. When you turn the ignition switch on, this 12-volt input becomes a "switched" 12-volt source for most of the electronics.
Not a chronic problem, but some people have had issues with the ignition switch itself. The original ignition hot wire is relatively small. A new thicker gauge FUSED wire from the battery to the ignition couldn't hurt.
for some reason, the lock on the bike i just got did not lock. when i took it out, suddenly the key would not go in,luckily i bought the 18.00 ebay ignition lock is without a "P" position, so i lost the parking light( don't know what the heck that battery drain was therein the first place,
so it appears , until i can get to it tomorrow that the fused 12v wire running to the switch IS the "couldn't hurt " remedy the PO did, as a supplementary wire to the switch
so if he had not did what he did, what would or would have been the down side?
Quote from: FJmonkey on March 25, 2019, 08:57:02 PM
Good fix, that will keep the elbow lock in. Now when you get fuel in the tank and you are ready to connect the fuel line... You should perform the suck test. With the fuel lines all connected properly take the vacuum line from the petcock that connects to the #2 carb boot and suck on it. The petcock has a vacuum powered needle valve connected to a diaphragm. Over time this diaphragm develops small holes. The holes eventually get large enough and the valve stays closed. The frustrating part is, it happens when you need fuel the most, you think you are running out of fuel. You pull over and check. Plenty of fuel. Start it back up and off you go. Then it happens again. Grrrrr.
When you suck on the vacuum line it should feel totally blocked. If you can slowly suck air then you have a leak. Make sure the hose is good by testing it by itself. A small leak may not be a problem, but a leak means you will eventually need to fix/replace it. Now hurry up and get riding while the weather is good.
OK I SUCKED IT.....
the tank is off the bike, i puffed on it and and it felt like no air leaks
i sucked on it harder and the gas started flowing and made a little mess in my station wagon
did i do it right?
Ok, so the petcock opened...good....now when the you stopped sucking did the petcock close?
All the way close, with no dribbles or drips? If so, you're good to go...
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 28, 2019, 08:29:40 PM
Ok, so the petcock opened...good....now when the you stopped sucking did the petcock close?
All the way close, with no dribbles or drips? If so, you're good to go...
it stopped, but it was in the back of the wagon, on cardboard, made a wet messy pool, can't say if it completely stopped immediately, but it did stop flowing and i wiped it off as quick as possible and returned to in 1 hour later and it is dry but smelly
Looking at the pictures, it appears that this bike has suffered the alternator connector meltdown.
The red and brownish/red wire pair are the main power distribution wires. The red wire is the alternator output that charges the battery. The brownish wire should be providing a voltage reference signal to the alternator that controls how much the alternator is supposed to charging.
At the ignition connector, the red wire should be coming directly from the battery. The brown wire out of the connector is the main 12 volt feed to the bike's electronics. It looks like there is a short white "jumper" connected to the brown wire from the connector and looping to the left to another connection. I would assume the other connection is a brown wire?
The blue wire out of the connector should be running to the taillights. Is this the white wire running along the frame and fused into the brownish wire under the sidecover? That wire should be providing a good 12 volt reference to the alternator. However, you might want to check to see if your taillights are working. Not brake lights, but the running lights. If they are, then the blue wire must be connected to 12 volts somewhere else.
Bottomline, the connections appear to make sense as long as the taillights are still working.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on March 29, 2019, 10:25:30 AM
Looking at the pictures, it appears that this bike has suffered the alternator connector meltdown.
The red and brownish/red wire pair are the main power distribution wires. The red wire is the alternator output that charges the battery. The brownish wire should be providing a voltage reference signal to the alternator that controls how much the alternator is supposed to charging.
At the ignition connector, the red wire should be coming directly from the battery. The brown wire out of the connector is the main 12 volt feed to the bike's electronics. It looks like there is a short white "jumper" connected to the brown wire from the connector and looping to the left to another connection. I would assume the other connection is a brown wire?
I HAVE TO CHECK TO SEE IF THE "WHITE" JUMPER GOES TO A BROWN
The blue wire out of the connector should be running to the taillights. Is this the white wire running along the frame and fused into the brownish wire under the sidecover? That wire should be providing a good 12 volt reference to the alternator. However, you might want to check to see if your taillights are working. Not brake lights, but the running lights. If they are, then the blue wire must be connected to 12 volts somewhere else.
YES
THE WHITE WIRE RUNNING ALONG THE FRAME AND CONNECTED TO THE YELLOWED WIRED 15AMP FUSE HOLDER IS CONNECTED TO THE BROWNISH WIRE, UNDER THE LEFT SIDE COVER, DOES THE TAILIGHT COME ON WITH THE SWITCH ON THE "on" POSITION?
Bottomline, the connections appear to make sense as long as the taillights are still working.
I will check those things on sunday, so the question is why did the PO splice the white wire in there? is this part of the Dyna install? and if all checks out and i get rid of the white wire or rewire the brownish wire back tot ehalternator somehow to provide the reference you are talking about?
last question, is this a band aid for a larger issue?
The wiring makes sense. The white wire is providing 12 volt feedback to the alternator. The brown wire in the sidecover is connected to the alternator.
The taillights should come on when the ignition is in the ON position.
I don't like the vampire connection between the blue and white wires at the connector. I'd fix that.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on March 29, 2019, 11:16:04 AM
The wiring makes sense. The white wire is providing 12 volt feedback to the alternator. The brown wire in the sidecover is connected to the alternator.
The taillights should come on when the ignition is in the ON position.
I don't like the vampire connection between the blue and white wires at the connector. I'd fix that.
oh... it is going to the alternator... thank you sir, you are an electronics engineer, what the heck did the PO do that for and that is why i came here to question it's intent,
so it's possible since the sole role of the green wire is to supply power to the taillight upon key "ON", and if it does indeed come on , with the switch, the "vampire" white wire and go where? does the wire have to be switched or constant?
so....
how to i bring it back to stock and get rid of the white wire?
Quote from: mtc on March 29, 2019, 01:00:35 PM
oh... it is going to the alternator... thank you sir, you are an electronics engineer, what the heck did the PO do that for and that is why i came here to question it's intent,
so it's possible since the sole role of the green wire is to supply power to the taillight upon key "ON", and if it does indeed come on , with the switch, the "vampire" white wire and go where? does the wire have to be switched or constant?
so....
how to i bring it back to stock and get rid of the white wire?
There was originally a 2-wire connector for the red/brown pair in the sidecover. This connector is prone to overheating and melting. I assume this happened to the PO and it damaged the original brown wire running up to the ignition switch.
Looks like the PO cut the original connector out and spliced the wires directly. You can see the shrink wrap on the red wire and the brown wire is connected to the yellow wire with the in-line fuse. I assume on the other end of the yellow fuse wire is where the white wire is spliced in. (yes/no?) If the above is true then this wire needs to remain. All of this is in the sidecover.
Moving back to the ignition connector, does the blue vampire connector have 2 wires coming out of it? The white wire and a green wire (that you just mentioned and I can't see in the pic)? If this is true then I assume the green wire is for the tail lights.
Other than replacing the vampire splicer with a real connection, all of this can (and should) stay as it is. For originality, you can replace the white wire with a brown one. If you dig around some more, I'll bet you can still find the original brown wire since it is probably still in the wire harness.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on March 29, 2019, 01:26:50 PM
Quote from: mtc on March 29, 2019, 01:00:35 PM
oh... it is going to the alternator... thank you sir, you are an electronics engineer, what the heck did the PO do that for and that is why i came here to question it's intent,
so it's possible since the sole role of the green wire is to supply power to the taillight upon key "ON", and if it does indeed come on , with the switch, the "vampire" white wire and go where? does the wire have to be switched or constant?
so....
how to i bring it back to stock and get rid of the white wire?
There was originally a 2-wire connector for the red/brown pair in the sidecover. This connector is prone to overheating and melting. I assume this happened to the PO and it damaged the original brown wire running up to the ignition switch.
Looks like the PO cut the original connector out and spliced the wires directly. You can see the shrink wrap on the red wire and the brown wire is connected to the yellow wire with the in-line fuse. I assume on the other end of the yellow fuse wire is where the white wire is spliced in. (yes/no?) If the above is true then this wire needs to remain. All of this is in the sidecover.
YES, THE WHITE WIRE HIDDEN FROM VIEW IS IN FACT CONNECTED TO THE YELLOW FUSED LINE
Moving back to the ignition connector, does the blue vampire connector have 2 wires coming out of it? The white wire and a green wire (that you just mentioned and I can't see in the pic)? If this is true then I assume the green wire is for the tail lights.
NO, THE CONNECTOR HAS 3 WIRES ,THE "VAMPIRE" CONNECTOR SLICES THE AFOREMENTIONED WHITE WIRE TO THE GREEN WIRE THAT YOU SAY IS FOR THE TAILIGHT RUNNING LIGHT, THE OTHER 2 WIRES ARE AS STOCK
Other than replacing the vampire splicer with a real connection, all of this can (and should) stay as it is. For originality, you can replace the white wire with a brown one. If you dig around some more, I'll bet you can still find the original brown wire since it is probably still in the wire harness.
SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT , ALTHOUGH THE SPLICED-IN WHITE WIRE AT THE IGNITION "SHOULD BE THERE" THEN WHERE DID THE "ORIGINAL" BROWNISH WIRE GET IT'S POWER?
IF YOU HAVE THAT ANSWER i COULD ELIMINATE THE "VAMPIRE CONNECTOR AND RELOCATE THE WHITE WIRE ALBEIT NOT BEING BROWNISH, TO THE ORIGINAL LOCATION
FOR ORIGINALITY, IN ROUTING ;BUT NOT IN COLOR CODING
thanks boss
Okay, I'll try to be more complete.
The ignition connector has 3 wires. The red wire is the 12 volt source from the battery. It comes to this connector, passes through to the actual physical ignition switch which when turned to the ON position connects this 12 volt source to BOTH the brown and blue wires, giving them 12 volts.
The blue wire originally ran driectly to the tail lights and nowhere else. In the PARK position of the ignition switch, the red wire is connected to the blue wire to turn the tail lights on.
The brown wire (which has been cut and now has the short white jumper wire) provides 12 volts to the main harness and branches out through the fuse block to provide 12 volt power to other circuits. The main power wires on the FJ are brown and red with white stripe. If you see a wire with these colors, it is a switched 12 volts.
One of the branches of this brown power circuit is the brown wire going to the alternator. This wire is part of the main harness and originally ended in a 2-wire connector behind the sidecover (the red and brown wire connector). This is the connector that can overheat and melt. I'll bet this happened to the PO and he cut this 2-wire connector out of the circuit. The original brown wire to the alternator must have been melted or damaged enough that it was unuseable so the PO ran a separate wire (the white wire) back to the ignition connector and combined it with the tail light wire (at the vampire connector).
If you root around in the sidecover, I'll be you can find the original brown wire (with a cutoff end). If you ohm it, it's probably a short to ground or an open due it being damaged when the connector overheated.
Again, other than the vampire splice, it's all good.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on March 29, 2019, 03:43:09 PM
Okay, I'll try to be more complete.
The ignition connector has 3 wires. The red wire is the 12 volt source from the battery. It comes to this connector, passes through to the actual physical ignition switch which when turned to the ON position connects this 12 volt source to BOTH the brown and blue wires, giving them 12 volts.
The blue wire originally ran driectly to the tail lights and nowhere else. In the PARK position of the ignition switch, the red wire is connected to the blue wire to turn the tail lights on.
The brown wire (which has been cut and now has the short white jumper wire) provides 12 volts to the main harness and branches out through the fuse block to provide 12 volt power to other circuits. The main power wires on the FJ are brown and red with white stripe. If you see a wire with these colors, it is a switched 12 volts.
One of the branches of this brown power circuit is the brown wire going to the alternator. This wire is part of the main harness and originally ended in a 2-wire connector behind the sidecover (the red and brown wire connector). This is the connector that can overheat and melt. I'll bet this happened to the PO and he cut this 2-wire connector out of the circuit. The original brown wire to the alternator must have been melted or damaged enough that it was unuseable so the PO ran a separate wire (the white wire) back to the ignition connector and combined it with the tail light wire (at the vampire connector).
If you root around in the sidecover, I'll be you can find the original brown wire (with a cutoff end). If you ohm it, it's probably a short to ground or an open due it being damaged when the connector overheated.
Again, other than the vampire splice, it's all good.
again sorry to drag this out for you, you probably have other things to do, so i appreciate it.
so you are saying the the white wire is the Main Source power wire for the entire bike and does it needs to be switch or Hot all the time?
so this is what puzzles me and sorry to be so obtuse, since the blue wire's sole purpose in life is to supply power to the taillight on the "p" position, and that it is NOT switch on until the key is on the "P" postilion.
if this is the case
my having replaced the broken factory original ignition switch last week( key won't go in and lock pin won't come out) with a cheap ebay replacement without a "P" position ( i could live without the battery drain potential)
this alone renders the circuit inoperable
so...
why is the white wire even connected to that, should it not be connected to the red on instead?
Quote from: mtc on March 29, 2019, 04:59:19 PM
again sorry to drag this out for you, you probably have other things to do, so i appreciate it.
so you are saying the the white wire is the Main Source power wire for the entire bike and does it needs to be switch or Hot all the time?
so this is what puzzles me and sorry to be so obtuse, since the blue wire's sole purpose in life is to supply power to the taillight on the "p" position, and that it is NOT switch on until the key is on the "P" postilion.
if this is the case
my having replaced the broken factory original ignition switch last week( key won't go in and lock pin won't come out) with a cheap ebay replacement without a "P" position ( i could live without the battery drain potential)
this alone renders the circuit inoperable
so...
why is the white wire even connected to that, should it not be connected to the red on instead?
I think I misspoke in an earlier post and confused you.
The red wire is the source of 12 volts. Connection of the red wire 12 volts is done by the ignition switch. When ON, the switch gives power to the brown and blue wires of the ignition connector.
As you now know, the blue wire powers tail lights. The tail lights need power in ON or PARK mode. Since you lost the PARK mode with the new switch, it's no big deal. You don't have that mode but the tail lights still get power from the blue wire.
The brown wire coming out of the ignition connector also gets 12 volts when the ignition is ON. This wire powers all the other electronics on the bike. The short white jumper wire connects the short brown wire out of the connector to the brown wire going into the wire harness. This provides power to everything needing 12 volts.
One of the things on the bike that needs to see 12 volts is the alternator. The alternator output will change depending the state of the battery voltage. If the battery voltage is below 12 volts then the alternator needs to output more power to keep the battery charged. If the output is greater than 12 volts then the alternator can reduce its output.
Thus, the alternator needs to know what the battery voltage is. It gets this from the long white wire on your bike. The original wire runs through the wire harness. However, it was damaged so the PO added the white wire. Theoretically, this alternator voltage reference could come from any 12 volt circuit on the bike but small wire voltage losses and other electronics on a circuit could corrupt the actual voltage value. Therefore, the most accurate indication of battery voltage would be from a direct link to the battery itself. The white wire essentially provides that voltage since it is a dedicated circuit from the red wire at the ignition connector (which IS a direct wire from the battery).
The PO could have vampired off the the brown wire (at ign connector) but instead chose to do it off of the blue. Same result either way, the alternator is seeing battery voltage courtesy of the white wire spliced into the yellow fused wire which is connected to the brown wire in the sidecover.
Am I using too many words? I don't know any other way to keep saying the same thing.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on March 29, 2019, 06:51:50 PM
Quote from: mtc on March 29, 2019, 04:59:19 PM
again sorry to drag this out for you, you probably have other things to do, so i appreciate it.
so you are saying the the white wire is the Main Source power wire for the entire bike and does it needs to be switch or Hot all the time?
so this is what puzzles me and sorry to be so obtuse, since the blue wire's sole purpose in life is to supply power to the taillight on the "p" position, and that it is NOT switch on until the key is on the "P" postilion.
if this is the case
my having replaced the broken factory original ignition switch last week( key won't go in and lock pin won't come out) with a cheap ebay replacement without a "P" position ( i could live without the battery drain potential)
this alone renders the circuit inoperable
so...
why is the white wire even connected to that, should it not be connected to the red on instead?
I think I misspoke in an earlier post and confused you.
The red wire is the source of 12 volts. Connection of the red wire 12 volts is done by the ignition switch. When ON, the switch gives power to the brown and blue wires of the ignition connector.
As you now know, the blue wire powers tail lights. The tail lights need power in ON or PARK mode. Since you lost the PARK mode with the new switch, it's no big deal. You don't have that mode but the tail lights still get power from the blue wire.
The brown wire coming out of the ignition connector also gets 12 volts when the ignition is ON. This wire powers all the other electronics on the bike. The short white jumper wire connects the short brown wire out of the connector to the brown wire going into the wire harness. This provides power to everything needing 12 volts.
One of the things on the bike that needs to see 12 volts is the alternator. The alternator output will change depending the state of the battery voltage. If the battery voltage is below 12 volts then the alternator needs to output more power to keep the battery charged. If the output is greater than 12 volts then the alternator can reduce its output.
Thus, the alternator needs to know what the battery voltage is. It gets this from the long white wire on your bike. The original wire runs through the wire harness. However, it was damaged so the PO added the white wire. Theoretically, this alternator voltage reference could come from any 12 volt circuit on the bike but small wire voltage losses and other electronics on a circuit could corrupt the actual voltage value. Therefore, the most accurate indication of battery voltage would be from a direct link to the battery itself. The white wire essentially provides that voltage since it is a dedicated circuit from the red wire at the ignition connector (which IS a direct wire from the battery).
The PO could have vampired off the the brown wire (at ign connector) but instead chose to do it off of the blue. Same result either way, the alternator is seeing battery voltage courtesy of the white wire spliced into the yellow fused wire which is connected to the brown wire in the sidecover.
Am I using too many words? I don't know any other way to keep saying the same thing.
ahhhh ha..... thanks what a good lesson, your the man!
12v reference to regulate alternator output, from a source least affected by noise
brown / blue immaterial
the PO knew his stuff, i don't
funny thing is leaving nothing to chance requires comprehensive wording.
is this the result ( of the notoriously rumored over-active early fj alternator supplying too many volts, if yes, is there a remedy that is required and is it a non issue?
You got it!
The overcharging issue is usually a bad voltage regulator. There are several fixes for that.
An inaccurate voltage on the brown wire to the alternator (such as a low voltage caused by parasitic losses) would cause the alternator to overcharge in response. Certainly could be a contributor.
I suffered the melted connector on my '85 several years back. Caught it before any damage was done and replaced the blade connectors with quality bullet connectors with clear sealed enclosures so I can monitor for any corrosion.
Pretty sure the original blades started corroding which caused the resistance to build up which lead to the overheating and melting. Didn't see it until I randomly pulled the connector apart one day. The melted part was on the backside of the connector so I never saw it.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on March 29, 2019, 08:21:26 PM
You got it!
The overcharging issue is usually a bad voltage regulator. There are several fixes for that.
An inaccurate voltage on the brown wire to the alternator (such as a low voltage caused by parasitic losses) would cause the alternator to overcharge in response. Certainly could be a contributor.
I suffered the melted connector on my '85 several years back. Caught it before any damage was done and replaced the blade connectors with quality bullet connectors with clear sealed enclosures so I can monitor for any corrosion.
Pretty sure the original blades started corroding which caused the resistance to build up which lead to the overheating and melting. Didn't see it until I randomly pulled the connector apart one day. The melted part was on the backside of the connector so I never saw it.
cool thanks very much again! :hi: