So after having some time to check out my free FJ1200, I believe the engine is locked up. I pulled the starter off and hit it with voltage, it spins strong. With the bike in gear and the spark plugs pulled out, I can not spin the back tire at all. With hard bumping of the back tire it moves slightly, but I think that's just the clutch giving way as the piston top I can see does not appear to be moving. I filled all four plug holes with PB blaster to see if anything will drain out or loosen up in the top. I guess my next step is to pull the valve cover to check chains and see if anything in there will move. Is there anything else I should check before giving up on this engine, or any suggestions you may have? Is there any place other than ebay to get a cheep running engine? I really don't want this to become a parts bike!
Thanks
Rob
Put the bike in first gear and give it a strong push backwards. In some weird cases a starter chain gets locked up somewhere and this frees it. Someone wrote about it a long time ago. Worth a try.
It was worth a shot, but no dice.
How about turning the engine over by using the bolt on the ignition timing plate?
With a long cheater bar, rock the bolt back and forth, see if anything loosens up..
That got it! There is hope! Using a 14mm socket on my ratchet, I rocked it back and forth the equivalent of maybe 1/16th of a turn. I gave a good hard pull counter clockwise and it popped loose with no cheater bar. Stuck rings maybe? I rotated it 10 revolutions and it got smoother each one. The PB blaster is still sitting in the cylinders so none leaked down. I'm still gonna pull the valve cover to check things out. I already checked the head torque and every bolt was loose. Most were 1/2 turn the outer exhaust two were each a full turn loose. Any more thoughts or suggestions anyone.?
Yep, stuck rings.... Loosen each head bolt individually (not all at once) then torque the head bolts to 25 ft.lbs.
Now that you can turn the engine over, you can check your valves.
If you choose to support our FJ Owners forum by becoming a bronze, silver or gold contributing member, you will get access to rent a shim kit (and valve tool) which will make your valve adjustments easy.
Here's more info: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=8969.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=8969.0)
We really can use your support....this forum is getting expensive to keep online.
You're on your way! Nothing like a free bike....we will keep our fingers crossed that no demons are lurking in the engine...
Cheers. Pat
Do you know the history of the bike? Last time it ran? Was it stored outside? With the spark plugs out? If the rings are rusted to the bores, it'll take at least a small bore to clean up the cylinder walls. Rust in the bores tends to cause pretty deep pits that won't clean up with just a hone.
When you get a chance, do a compression check or leakdown test
I'll definitely check out the membership plans. The last time it ran had to be somewhere around 2013, that's the last inspection date and the expired 2014 plate is still on it. It was stored inside for sure. The paint is in really good condition. The P.O. cared for it up to a point for sure. It has three windshields including a rifle brand extended. A Yamaha brand saddle bag trunk bag combo thing. A gps with mount and a nice ram cell phone mount. Original seat and a perfect Corbin seat with passenger back rest. A Givi monokey trunk mount. The carbs were really gummed up. I have them soaking right now. Tomorrow I'll do a compression test and the other things you guys recommended. The carbs should be good to go tomorrow.
Thanks everyone. I'll keep you updated as I go along.
I had similar problem with my FJ11. I initially thought the engine was seized but I could get the rear wheel to move back and forward a little while in gear. I had a possible theory and I think it was right. There was a stuck valve and continual rocking of the rear wheel back and forward eventually freed it up. The bike has run strong ever since and it had sat outdoors for over 9 years before i got it. It's done over 100k klm and doesn't burn oil.
Nice! That could very well have been my problem as well. It's so hard to say at this point. I'm really hoping I can get this thing fired up in the next few days. I had to order plugs which won't be in until Monday. By then I should have most everything else done for startup. It's supposed to rain all day here tomorrow so it looks like a perfect shop day.
Nice to hear of your progress!
I got back to it early this morning. I got the carbs all done and ready to go. I hooked up power and guess what, starter won't spin the engine over! It's clicking, it's engaging, but no spin of the engine. I pulled it off yesterday and confirmed it wasn't seized up. I put a wrench on the timing bolt and gave it a jolt as I hit the starter, still nothing. I can still turn it over with a wrench, it has drag I'm not sure how much I should be feeling though. No harder than what I'm doing with a small ratchet I imagine the starter should do easily. So, what about this starter chain? Could the starter be that week? The battery terminals are getting really hot and the power shut down at one point where I had to disconnect and reconnect.
Quote from: Rscott8111 on October 22, 2017, 09:28:40 AMI got back to it early this morning. . . I hooked up power and guess what, starter won't spin the engine over! The battery terminals are getting really hot and the power shut down at one point where I had to disconnect and reconnect.
Rscott,
Clean battery terminals will not get hot. They must be dirty. Disassemble and clean away any crud or corrosion on the cable ends and battery terminals, down to bright metal, and try it again. Clean the battery cable connection to ground at the chassis. Charge the battery while you do all that, just for fun. Try a start with jumper cables, too (leave the car engine turned off.) If the starter spins the engine with the positive jumper connected to battery, the battery is weak. If not, clean the cable ends at the starter solenoid. If that does not get the starter working well, make a momentary contact from the positive jumper to the cable on the starter solenoid that goes to the starter. If that makes the starter spin well, but nothing less helps, then the starter solenoid is bad. If nothing here helps, then the starter itself has a problem.
Good hunting! :bye2:
Update. After finishing the carbs I tried again with the starter. I put in a new battery, nothing. All cables spotless, all connections good. Pulled the starter, spins strong with the push of the button. With a wrench on the timing bolt, turning counter clockwise I still spin the engine. Turning the wrench clockwise delivers no turning of the engine at all. In fifth gear rotating the wheel forward the engine turns over. Rotating back words no spin. Starter back in with fresh battery and jumper cables, still no spin of the engine and cables start to overheat. I'm thinking the starter chain has broken or there is some other internal blockage keeping the starter gears from spinning. Question, should the engine spin in reverse with a wrench? I read the thread about the stuck starter system and bumping it in reverse direction as previously suggested. Mine definitely will not spin in reverse direction. I'm apprehensive to crank on it without further expertise.
Thoughts?
Rscott,
Clarifications, please . . .
1. Does the starter spin now, in the bike? If yes, skip step #2 entirely.
With the bike in gear on the centerstand, and the ignition turned OFF,
2. With the negative jumper cable connected to chassis ground, touch the positive jumper cable briefly to the solenoid terminal that goes to the starter. Does the starter spin?
3. Turn the rear wheel one full turn forward, then reverse one full turn. What happens at the engine?
Turning the rear wheel, in gear, should make the engine crankshaft turn over, both ways. The starter has nothing to do with that.
Thanks for the response.
The starter will not spin when mounted, it does spin with good torque out of the bike. It activates good with the switch. I have jumped it out of the engine and it jumps fine. Mounted it will Not spin either jumped or by switch. It is trying but can not spin the engine over.
In high gear I can get the engine to turn over rolling the wheel forward. With a wrench on the timing bolt the engine will turn over counter clockwise which coincides with the wheel rolling forward. The wheel will Not roll at all in gear in reverse. The engine will Not turn over by wrench clockwise which coincides with wheel in reverse.
Well, good news and bad news!
I got home tonight after much thought today, and said screw it. I put the wrench back on the timing bolt and got out the dead blow hammer. I gave it 6 good whacks for clockwise and it freed right up! I got excited and put it all back together. Put some gas in, gave it a whirl. Engine turned right over. Unfortunately I think it's got a busted gear, skipping chain, something. It is clunking each revolution of the starter and jumping from spinning the engine to clunking. It never gets a full revolution before it clunks and skips. I tried pop starting it, and it still clunks. It's not quite the same clunk as the starter but pretty similar.
So looks like I will need to tear it apart to see, unless you gurus have some better ideas! If that is the case, what else should I do while it's in pieces this winter?
Thanks
Rob
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_H2HxSU2bdI
Here's a video hopefully the link works.
There's a whole lot you could do since you will be almost totally disassembling the engine. It just depends what you want and how much money you are willing to invest. Firstly, maybe I missed it, but what year is your bike?
Try Googling a bit this forum to get the ideas. Enter in Google what you want and include 'fjowners.com' at the end. Works much better than the forum search bar.
Most important is that you find the source of the problem and fix it. After that modifications come in place along with things you can change while in there (this makes me wander, how many kilometers on the clock does it have?). For example RPM shift detent kit, upgrading clutch, undercutting gears, new stronger shift forks, etc, etc.
I just want a solid stock bike that's reliable. My plan is for this to be my main transport to work next season. It has just over 26,000 miles on it now. Obviously the least amount invested the better. I'm not looking to turn it for profit, I just don't want to dump tons of money into it as it's a second bike at this point.
There are a few unknowns on what you are willing to spend on getting the engine into good running condition. Since there is not a determination as to what is exactly wrong with the engine, I have a suggestion.... Contact RPM through the website about the possibility of purchasing a complete used, in running condition engine. Also, RRC, formerly Hank Scott Racing in North Carolina sells used Legends racecar engines. I also know that here in Wichita, KS. There is a FJ1100 engine on Craigslist. Asking price is $400.00. I know nothing else about the engine or the seller.
Fred
For around $5000.00, you can get a drop in engine from RRC that will make your Vmax on V boost seem tame.
Fred
Yeah, that would be sweet but WAY out of price range. I need to do second gear in the vmax also so my budgets about nothing at this point. Have you been able to look at the YouTube video I posted of the bike? I'm curious if the link is good. On my side it is, but it defaults to my YouTube account and app.
Hey Rob, I heard the video....it sounds like a starter clutch problem. You are starting the engine in neutral, correct?
I'll let others chime in.....
Pull the oil pan. If the starter chain has broken or the starter drive is damaged there will be hard parts in the oil pan.
Also, pull the plugs again. With a long screwdriver that will fit down into the spark plug hole, see if the piston heights are equal. #1 & 4 should be the same height and #2 & 3 should be the same height. If the heights are different then something catastrophic has occurred.
It might also be worth pulling the valve cover and seeing if the cams turn over when you turn the crank by hand. That would also be the time you check to see if the cam timing is properly timed.
Randy - RPM
Awesome ideas. I will try all that this weekend. I guess I'm the mean time I'll start looking for an engine.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 24, 2017, 11:21:57 AM
Hey Rob, I heard the video....it sounds like a starter clutch problem. You are starting the engine in neutral, correct?
I'll let others chime in.....
Rob,
This may (or may not...) be of some help.
I had an '82 Virago that sounded exactly like that. The early 750 Viragos had a problem with the starter gear not fully engaging, resulting in the gear teeth rounding off, and it would catch about 50% of the time. The rest of the time the gear teeth would rattle against each other just like that. If you have the starter off again, examine the teeth for signs of wear. It sounds like it's just not engaging. Never heard of this problem on an FJ, though.
rossi
I ordered a new starter off eBay just to check that before I tear it apart. I'll look at the teeth again when I pull the old one. When I was trying to get the engine unstuck I looked at the teeth I could see which was maybe 1/8th of them. Those all looked brand new. But with the way it was locked up I wouldn't be surprised if there are some screwed up.
Quote from: Rscott8111 on October 25, 2017, 07:53:38 AM
I ordered a new starter off eBay just to check that before I tear it apart.
You have to be careful of eBay/aftermarket starters. Here is a link of starter returned defective, another one of the same brand new starters off the shelf and the last photos are of the genuine Yamaha starter.
I only sell Yamaha starters now...
Beware of eBay/aftermarket starters (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=15427.msg155817#msg155817)
Randy - RPM
Quote from: Rscott8111 on October 25, 2017, 07:53:38 AMI ordered a new starter off eBay just to check that before I tear it apart. I'll look at the teeth again when I pull the old one.
Rob,
You should know, there are the old two-brush starters and the new four-brush starters for the FJ. Four brushes will be a much better choice.
Your starter may be okay, and only the drive clutch may be bad.
I honestly don't think the starter is bad, but I've neen wrong before. I basically just wanted a cheap one to eliminate the possibility before I decide to buy another engine or tear into this one. I figured in the grand scheme of things throwing $50 in the fire was not that bad.
The starter motor connects to the starter clutch...that's what I suspect is bad, the starter clutch....not the starter motor.
Ah ok. So I assume that's the gear I can see inside the case with the starter out.
The starter meshes with the outer teeth of the gear in this photo. The smaller, larger teeth engage the one way starter clutch you can use see in the upper left of the photo.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/171_24_07_15_9_45_03.jpeg)
Once that gear starts turning, it drives the starter drive chain coupled to the crankshaft.
Randy - RPM
Photo credit: cwyatt - FJ1289
Awesome info! I bet somewhere there is my failure. I picked the previous owners brain real hard. He said it had been sitting for a long time and he was trying to start it. He said he was cranking it for at least ten minutes and it would hit try to run but wouldn't. Instead of stopping there he just kept holding the starter down hoping it would eventually run. Then he heard a loud pop and it quit doing anything. So , yeah not the smartest move.
Quote from: racerrad8 on October 25, 2017, 04:22:10 PM
The starter meshes with the outer teeth of the gear in this photo. The smaller, larger teeth engage the one way starter clutch you can use see in the upper left of the photo.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/171_24_07_15_9_45_03.jpeg)
Once that gear starts turning, it drives the starter drive chain coupled to the crankshaft.
Randy - RPM
Photo credit: cwyatt - FJ1289
My ratio of pictures of broken parts to good ones is kind of high...
Unfortunately, now my Vmax is doing the same thing as the FJ starter. It's gonna be a long winter. :Facepalm: