Bike buying from a dealer.....tips please?
I'm thinking of buying another Japanese bike. A year 2016 model. It's been a REAL long time since I have bought a bike from a dealer........therefore a REAL long time since I've been in a position of negotiating price.
Here's the scenario:
I've figured out the exact year 2016 Japanese bike that I want. At 2 different dealers I've found a total of 3 examples of the specific bike that I want. Each of these bikes is "on the sales floor", ready for a buyer. One of the bikes is NEW, one is an extremely low mile Demo, and one is VERY slightly used.
Dealer F has the used bike. Dealer R has the Demo and the NEW bike.
I've talked to both dealers, and I have secured an out-the-door "starting price" for each of the 3 bikes.
Meaning that the OTD price they gave me is the starting price of negotiating the "final" OTD price. They are fine with that.
I also have the applicable warranty info for each bike.
Both dealers know that I am looking at 3 different bikes. Neither dealer knows the "starting price" that I was quoted by the opposing dealer.
The difference in "starting price" between the NEW bike and the used bike is several thousand dollars. The Demo is priced in-between.
I'm now receptive to advice/tips on how to play one dealer against the other to get the best buy for the least dollar. I guess it's called "best bang for the buck." If the price is right, I'd be very happy with any 1 of the 3. Comments........input........tips.........secrets.........?
I'm curious if a dealer has the most "price wiggle-room" on a NEW bike, or on a used bike??
Yes, I've talked this over with my 1984 FJ1100.........no probs there..............
Lee Carkenord FJLee 1984 FJ1100 Denver,CO
Hello Lee,
Not that much markup in a new bike, $1,500 average. There may be a kick back from the manufacture on last years model. My advise, get on the phone, call dealers in another states. Get your best price and go from there, if they are unwilling to discuss price just call the next on the list. Do not forget to check EBAY. An out the door price close to MSRP, current, new, probably about as good as it gets. Hope this helps.
Kurt
Quote from: FjLee on February 24, 2017, 06:21:19 PMBike buying from a dealer.....tips please? . . . Yes, I've talked this over with my 1984 FJ1100.........no probs there..............
Lee
Lee,
There are many bargaining strategies and techniques (which most Americans do not know). Google can help with that. One strategy I like is called "the bear in the closet." You have to handle the bear in the closet, but the seller has no chance to talk to the bear. "My wife would shoot me if I spent that much money on a toy." ( . . . and no, I'm not married, really.) :biggrin: Remember, the final incentive to the seller, always, is seeing your back, walking out the door. You have to act like that can happen at any time, to get the best deal possible.
When you can't carve the deal any finer, then whittle: "I need new (gloves, boots, helmet, clothing, accessories, or whatever). Can you help me out as part of the deal there?" Remember the dealer may have only paid half of the retail price for stuff like that, so they can often give you a ton of extras without hurting themselves too badly. Be a likeable guy, and good things can happen.
Happy hunting.
Here's my strategy... Don't sweat the small stuff.
Life is too short to worry about saving a couple hundred bucks. Like Kurt said, an out-the-door price close to the MSRP is about as good as you're going to get. Just pick out the bike you want, get the dealer's best price, offer him a couple hundred under that. If he goes for it, write him a check. If he counters with a higher price, write him a check. Either way, it's all about the ride. Buy the damn bike, get on it and ride.
Go make memories because, in the end, it's all you've got.
Bill
My first bit of advice dealing with vehicle salesman is, Everything after "Good morning" is a lie!
The broad formula for dealerships is the new vehicles bring them in the door, the second hand ones pay the overheads and workshop makes the profit.
As previously mentioned, margin on new bikes (and cars) is slim and is an apples for apples comparison between dealers, they all buy at the same price (almost)
Most dealers finance their floor stock on a plan tailored for the auto industry. This requires them to pay a small percentage of the value of the bike every month and then, if it has sat long enough, have to pay it out entirely. Faced with the prospect of stumping up the money to pay it out they would rather get rid of it at cost, even if they replace with an identical bike, and start the "floor plan" over again on the new bike. This is where a good deal can be had on maybe an unpopular colour, but as has already been said, margins are slim. Without a trade in, not a lot to negotiate.
The advantage to this is, you can take the price from the dealer that wants to dump the bike quickly to the dealer you prefer that has the one you want and use it as bargaining power.
You are looking at a #1 demo, #2 a barely used bike and #3 a new bike.
#1 The demo: Unless you are buying a make and model that only old farts buy, everyone else only wants to know one thing when they test ride a bike - how hard does it go! It has likely been thrashed and thrashed cold (can't waste demo ride time warming it up) They are what the mechanic runs errands on, gets his lunch on and have a terrible cold start to mileage ratio and are deprived of a proper run in procedure. Multiple short, cold start hard rides around town is the usual break in routine.
#2 The barely used bike I am always suspicious of a near to new current model bike with little mileage on it as a "used bike" I would need a very good explanation (not the salesmans yarn) as to how it ended up in their showroom. The most common source of these of I have seen over the years is insurance "write off's" that can be profitably rebuilt, particularly if you're a dealer. Not to say it can't be legitimate, but the odds are against it.
#3 The new bike: Given you are looking at all 2016 bikes, being new or near new, I would buy the new one. I know it's a couple of grand more and money's hard to come by, but nothing beats that riding it out of the crate feeling. You will know from the very beginning that it's yours. You can sleep easy knowing it has no past or just what that past might have been. I would not want to own the last new bike I test rode!
My second bit of advice that I have been handing out for decades is this: What you ending up paying as a purchase price for the bike is only part of it. People tend to overlook service. I can recall giving guys a price on a bike only to have them go half a state away to beat it by $200. They would then turn up for a service ( being the nearest dealer) expecting red carpet treatment. These are not the people we gave a loaner to for the day to minimize their inconvenience, or order 4 helmets we wouldn't usually stock for them to try on or stay back after closing time so they could pick up something they needed or go above and beyond for in any respect, other than fulfilling our dealer obligations. If they want that, they can fuck off back to the dealer 3 hours away they bought it from - to save $200!
There is a saying, "Long after the price is forgotten, the quality still remains" Most folks probably forget what they paid for a new vehicle after a while but what they will remember forever is the fantastic service they got from the dealer afterwards.
In my opinion (and what I do) running between dealers, trying to cut a deal to the bone to the last few dollars is a waste of time. Go with your gut feeling. If the price is reasonable, you like the guy, they're local, and you've left them a bit of meat in it, they will look after you. I cannot stress strongly enough the importance of establishing a relationship with you local dealer. The few hundred extra you might end up paying to buy through him will be returned ten or even twenty fold in good service.
Since starting writing this I have just read "Cutter Bills" post and he has nailed it, albeit more concisely.
Noel (ex dealer)
Quote from: ribbert on February 25, 2017, 07:57:41 AM
My first bit of advice dealing with vehicle salesman is, Everything after "Good morning" is a lie!
The broad formula for dealerships is the new vehicles bring them in the door, the second hand ones pay the overheads and workshop makes the profit.
As previously mentioned, margin on new bikes (and cars) is slim and is an apples for apples comparison between dealers, they all buy at the same price (almost)
Most dealers finance their floor stock on a plan tailored for the auto industry. This requires them to pay a small percentage of the value of the bike every month and then, if it has sat long enough, have to pay it out entirely. Faced with the prospect of stumping up the money to pay it out they would rather get rid of it at cost, even if they replace with an identical bike, and start the "floor plan" over again on the new bike. This is where a good deal can be had on maybe an unpopular colour, but as has already been said, margins are slim. Without a trade in, not a lot to negotiate.
The advantage to this is, you can take the price from the dealer that wants to dump the bike quickly to the dealer you prefer that has the one you want and use it as bargaining power.
You are looking at a #1 demo, #2 a barely used bike and #3 a new bike.
#1 The demo: Unless you are buying a make and model that only old farts buy, everyone else only wants to know one thing when they test ride a bike - how hard does it go! It has likely been thrashed and thrashed cold (can't waste demo ride time warming it up) They are what the mechanic runs errands on, gets his lunch on and have a terrible cold start to mileage ratio and are deprived of a proper run in procedure. Multiple short, cold start hard rides around town is the usual break in routine.
#2 The barely used bike I am always suspicious of a near to new current model bike with little mileage on it as a "used bike" I would need a very good explanation (not the salesmans yarn) as to how it ended up in their showroom. The most common source of these of I have seen over the years is insurance "write off's" that can be profitably rebuilt, particularly if you're a dealer. Not to say it can't be legitimate, but the odds are against it.
#3 The new bike: Given you are looking at all 2016 bikes, being new or near new, I would buy the new one. I know it's a couple of grand more and money's hard to come by, but nothing beats that riding it out of the crate feeling. You will know from the very beginning that it's yours. You can sleep easy knowing it has no past or just what that past might have been. I would not want to own the last new bike I test rode!
My second bit of advice that I have been handing out for decades is this: What you ending up paying as a purchase price for the bike is only part of it. People tend to overlook service. I can recall giving guys a price on a bike only to have them go half a state away to beat it by $200. They would then turn up for a service ( being the nearest dealer) expecting red carpet treatment. These are not the people we gave a loaner to for the day to minimize their inconvenience, or order 4 helmets we wouldn't usually stock for them to try on or stay back after closing time so they could pick up something they needed or go above and beyond for in any respect, other than fulfilling our dealer obligations. If they want that, they can fuck off back to the dealer 3 hours away they bought it from - to save $200!
There is a saying, "Long after the price is forgotten, the quality still remains" Most folks probably forget what they paid for a new vehicle after a while but what they will remember forever is the fantastic service they got from the dealer afterwards.
In my opinion (and what I do) running between dealers, trying to cut a deal to the bone to the last few dollars is a waste of time. Go with your gut feeling. If the price is reasonable, you like the guy, they're local, and you've left them a bit of meat in it, they will look after you. I cannot stress strongly enough the importance of establishing a relationship with you local dealer. The few hundred extra you might end up paying to buy through him will be returned ten or even twenty fold in good service.
Since starting writing this I have just read "Cutter Bills" post and he has nailed it, albeit more concisely.
Noel (ex dealer)
I have bought a few new toys and learned some things that haven't been mentioned, but generally agree with Bill and Noel... saving a few bucks is part of a bigger equation involving your patience, your bank account, the importance of the relationship with the local dealer, etc. You really have to feel your way through this.
The thing I can add on buying the new bike is to be aware of timing... Dealers allocations of new bikes and even the price they pay are based on their volume of new bike sales. Larger dealerships will also measure their sales staff individual performance monthly. And, as Noel mentioned, after several months of carrying the inventory on lease the dealer will need to buy the bike and start the warranty... essentially becomes a used bike at that point (they have taken title). This decreases the value and put the dealer in a bad negotiating position (they might have to throw in a warranty extension on top of selling closer to a used bike price). Awareness of the various deadlines... end of month, end of quarter, end of model year, how long the bike has been on the sales floor, etc... can give you leverage, but it is short lived. You can get your best deal on a new bike at just that moment.
I've also bought very low mile used bikes with a good backstory. The 2015 K13S I bought recently at Hardly of Folsom was sold as a trade from a HD dude who thought he'd try a sport bike but went back to HD. The alarm bells sounded ("dude wrecked it" per Noel), so I did a little research and the BMW dealer he bought from verified the story. I also took the time to go to my local dealer with the VIN and look through all the service performed through BMW, making sure they gave me the thumbs up on the bike. I talked with the owner about the price vs the identical 2016 K13S on their sales floor... the owner himself helped me decide to go for the used one since he didn't want to deal hard on his last new one. Involving my local dealer worked well and the owner said he'd go buy the bike if I didn't. I took it in the next week and bought the factory luggage (high profit stuff for them) to thank Chris for his help. This is obviously much harder than buying new, but for me it dropped the price by nearly 40% over new.
Never bought a demo, although I have seen "demo" bikes with almost no miles. As I understand it, the dealers can sell a demo after a certain mileage OR once the new model year demos are available. Again, I have no personal experience here. I have seen pretty big discounts (20%) on last year's demos however... might be worth waiting.
The other thing I'd say is some have a taste for this game (I'm one of them) and others don't. If you don't enjoy the hunt, buy something and do what you like to do (riding presumably).
Frank
Good stuff guys :good2: It's obvious you fella's have been around the block
Lee....What bike are you considering and why?
All valid points and some great tips from everyone. :good: One short statement really stood out for me though,
Quote from: ribbert on February 25, 2017, 07:57:41 AM
People tend to overlook service.
For the most part, almost all the new bikes will require exclusive dealer servicing. Outside of changing your oil or brake pads or maybe wheel bearings or plugs, there's not much you can do. Just like cars it's mostly plug in diagnostics... like the evil Ducati keyless ignition that would fail 200 miles from home. Even then the service life on these is much longer than on our FJs. There's a good chance you will probably have to do nothing but basic maintence for years on it. If the price difference ends up being inconsequential relatively speaking, do some background checking on customer experiences with service.
I usually don't give a lot of credence to online testimonials on company websites. (Except for RPM's :i_am_so_happy:) Find out if there's an online forum for this bike, or a local motorcycle rider's forum where you can inquire about dealer satisfaction. Like ribbert said, the dealer who is willing to go that extra mile for you is worth the extra money.
I have built up enough of a relationship with my local Yamaha dealer now, that they consider me a regular in their parts department. I have been critical of their service in the past (carb "work"), but their parts department has been very good to me. They have given me free valve shims, told me not to buy an OEM part due to cost and made alternate suggestions. This is only based on probably $100 - $200/yr that I would spend there. It might not seem such a big deal on either of our parts, but it does build up a level of trust between us. I know they won't dick me around on price or product, and they know I will be a repeat customer, and hopefully a new buyer.
Good luck. :drinks:
Here is my experience with a very successful BMW/Ducati dealership.
At a motorcycle show several years ago, I signed up for a test ride on the BMW K1300S. About six months later I was contacted & so I rode the several hours to the dealership. The salesman, Joe, who had originally contacted me and whom I followed while I was on the BMW test ride was low key, courteous and thorough.
Following the test ride I was quoted a price for a NEW K1300. Several reasons (unrelated to the motorcycle) came together and led me to take the decision to not purchase the BMW.
Several weeks later, I stopped by the dealership with a bottle of Baily's Irish Cream for Joe out of appreciation for his above board treatment. He happened to have the day off so another salesman came up and I told him to please give the bottle Joe.
Well, this salesman was relentless & pushy and since the BMW I had ridden now had 3,000+ miles, it could not be sold as new. Thus he could give me a super deal and steep discount. So, I thought okay, let's see what the "steep discount" would be on an essentially used (and a demo no less) motorcycle.... after much ado with his adding machine and other melodramatics, yep you guessed it the price he quoted was the same as a NEW K1300 - and one that was in a better color to boot!
Midget
I always keep it very simple if I am buying something where I don't want to pay the asking price.
I figure out how much I want to pay and start by telling that to the seller. If he doesn't accept that, I just walk away. Saves a lot of haggling time...
You would be surprised how many times the seller has turned down the offer, watched me leaving the shop and then run after me and accepting my offer :yes:
Buy from the dealer you like at whatever price you are comfortable with.
What do you do for a living?
Someone else could probably do it cheaper, but why does the company/whatever have you on board?
Because you're worth it - and so is a good dealer.
My nickles worth.....
And that being said, if they're all "bad", well, you gotta do what you gotta do.
Wait....what???? Lee......is buying a....NEW....motorcycle???? :scratch_one-s_head:
Quote from: FJ Flyer on February 27, 2017, 06:24:56 AM
Wait....what???? Lee......is buying a....NEW....motorcycle???? :scratch_one-s_head:
That was my reaction, too. Now if he'd just tell us
what it is...something ADVish, perhaps? :scratch_one-s_head:
Whatever it is, I bet it has to have some range....'bout 300 miles between tanks.
Quote from: rlucas on February 27, 2017, 07:07:34 AM
Quote from: FJ Flyer on February 27, 2017, 06:24:56 AM
Wait....what???? Lee......is buying a....NEW....motorcycle???? :scratch_one-s_head:
That was my reaction, too. Now if he'd just tell us what it is...something ADVish, perhaps? :scratch_one-s_head:
(http://forums.floridasportsman.com/images/smilies/th_popcorn.gif)
never bought a new bike so I'm not the one to ask.. but can't wait to find out what Lee's second new bike in 35 years is. I think Yamaha is a slam dunk, and I'm betting triple. FJ09 or XSR.
I'm betting that if he buys a new bike, he will be "East-bound and Down!" :sarcastic:
I pick a number slightly less than asking. Make the offer and tell him its a take it or leave it, counter me 25 cents higher and I walk. I absolutely will not under any circumstances negotiate. Negotiating is a sad tactic to pry every last penny out of your pocket. I will not lowball. The dealer must make money too. If you grind and grind them they will remember when you show up for service.
Lee, a final bit of advice. No one is going to give you their best price while you're just shopping, not until you commit to buy. The salesman will ask you at some point "If we can agree on a price/deal today, will you buy it?" If you say no, he'll let you walk with a "come back and see me when you're ready to buy" because you've just admitted you are not going to buy a bike today even if you can agree on a price. If you say yes, he will make sure he comes up with an agreeable deal because you've just told him you will buy if he does, and that will include his best price.
No one gives out their best price just to be shopped around.
Don't over complicate the process. Decide on the bike you want, tell him you're there to buy it if the deal is right, have realistic expectations of what he has to play with to sweetten the deal and if you think it's reasonable, buy it and ride off into the sunset.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on February 28, 2017, 06:38:04 AM
Lee, a final bit of advice. No one is going to give you their best price while you're just shopping, not until you commit to buy.
True dat... I bought my daughters 2015 GTI like this:
Got the USAA discount price (supposedly invoice + $500 or so, close to $4K off sticker) for an affiliated dealer in Oakland (45 min away),
Went to the local VW dealer (10 min away) with the printout,
Told sales guy and his manger (happened to be standing there) I'd buy the car right now at that price,
They moaned and groaned and I walked out the door,
I didn't get to my car... but they did ask that I drive the car off the lot to close the deal that day as it was also the end of their quarter and this deal was important to them.
If they know you're serious, you're saving them a bunch of time and they'll "pay" you for the convenience. Especially if they need a few more deals on the last day of some measurement period.
Frank
PS - told you I actually like this game.
FJ folks..........
A big "Thank you" for your input regarding any advice and/or opinions on how to stretch a buck when shopping for a bike via a dealer.
Some good stuff there.....useful stuff. As a testament to the character of this group.......no one interjected any smart-ass useless drivel. Cool crowd!!
I think that I do detect a certain level of curiosity as to what it is that I am shopping for......eh?
Well.......I'm looking for NEW or VERY lightly used model year 2016 Japanese 4 cylinder inline four. Approx. 1255 cc. Liquid cooled. Fuel injected, with good ol' push-pull throttle cables. None of this "throttle by mother board". Six speed would be nice. Yes, I am curious about radial tires, too!! Chain drive by D.I.D.
Performance wise, my 1984 FJ1100 has spoiled me, so I would want approx. at least the same level of performance as my FJ. In other words, enough to scare me whenever the mood hits me.
Weight?? Maybe a couple of pounds lighter than my FJ.........
I don't see an immediate need for any USB ports on any of my motorcycles.
So far , I've also noticed that I haven't spent much time studying traction control, anti-wheelie, anti-stoppie, lean-angle monitoring, anti-fun, etc. So I guess I don't need that stuff either.
Oh.......I want it to use a real ignition key, made of metal. Not some techno-weenie chip embedded in some kinda synthetic substance that'll give me cancer or cause my liver to fall off.
It's too bad that interesting bikes lately have small fuel tanks and relatively short range. Conlon, have you also noticed that trend ?? Four point nine gallon "useable" capacity seems to be the limit. I compare that to my honest measured "useable" capacity of 6.34 gallons on my 84 FJ, and I feel useless. Damn!!
My impossible NEW dream-bike would be a 1984 FJ1100, built last week from fresh new materials, with all of the fuel storage and delivery gremlins exorcised.
Could I also ask for a 6 speed version?
FjLee 1984 FJ1100 Lee Carkenord Denver XCO
Well Lee, that Suzi is probably the closest to a "new" FJ ...
Exactly....Suzuki Bandit ticks all the boxes
(http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Cycles/Products/Bandit%201250S/2016/~/media/625DC2767E8D4B1D9A23052907CFBF24.ashx?h=170)
Quote from: FjLee on March 01, 2017, 08:18:19 PM
It's too bad that interesting bikes lately have small fuel tanks and relatively short range.
That, and no centerstand too.
The new 2016 Suzuki Bandit MSRP lists for $9,899 (+T & L)
Motorcycle legend Malcom Smith has an excellent dealership in Riverside, CA and has one for sale at $6,988:
http://www.malcolmsmith.com/showcaseproductdetail.htm?ID=1136403&Used=1&utm_source=www.cycletrader.com&utm_medium=www.cycletrader.com/dealers/Malcolm-Smith-Motorsports-2888288/listing/2016-Suzuki-BANDIT-1250S-%28ABS%29-117859005&utm_campaign=Referral (http://www.malcolmsmith.com/showcaseproductdetail.htm?ID=1136403&Used=1&utm_source=www.cycletrader.com&utm_medium=www.cycletrader.com/dealers/Malcolm-Smith-Motorsports-2888288/listing/2016-Suzuki-BANDIT-1250S-%28ABS%29-117859005&utm_campaign=Referral)
Sooooo, 41% off MSRP shows that deals can be had on the new Banditos....
Marty, the Bandits do have a center stand...
I think Pat's recommendation of the Bandit is on the mark. Bandits have been around for quite awhile. With six speeds and fuel injection I think they are what the FJ would have morphed into if Yamaha had continued the FJ. Still have a center stand too. Dale Walker offers all sorts of upgrades and custom parts for them. One of the biggest forums for the Bandit is at TwowheelTexans. A lot of bike for the money.
http://www.twtex.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=94 (http://www.twtex.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=94)
Dave
No, I'm not recommending the 2016 (ABS) Bandit....I just suspect that's the bike Lee is considering.
With a budget of $5k to $6k, I can completely refurbish Lee's beloved '84, including engine work, to better than oem specifications.
Of course, you are still left with the carbs and 5 speed tranny.
Sorry Pat. Based on Lee's specifications the Bandit is what I would recommend. I still think it is a lot of bike for the money.
Dave
No worries Dave, I agree with you, for the money, the Bandito is a whole lot of bike....
Here's one in Temecula, CA for $6,599...wow... :shok:
http://temeculamotorsports.com/Motorcycles-Suzuki-Bandit-1250S-ABS-2016-Murrieta-CA-401efde6-d04e-4435-93e2-a70f011883b6 (http://temeculamotorsports.com/Motorcycles-Suzuki-Bandit-1250S-ABS-2016-Murrieta-CA-401efde6-d04e-4435-93e2-a70f011883b6)
Quote from: FjLee on March 01, 2017, 08:18:19 PM
My impossible NEW dream-bike would be a 1984 FJ1100, built last week from fresh new materials, with all of the fuel storage and delivery gremlins exorcised.
Could I also ask for a 6 speed version?
FjLee 1984 FJ1100 Lee Carkenord Denver XCO
Lee,
As Pat already mentioned, depending on the budget you are going to spend on a new bike, we can probably spent the same amount and bring your FJ into the current day and age.
If you are interested, maybe a ride out the week before the WCR, a weeks stay in Oakdale and we can perform the RPM magic.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 02, 2017, 10:22:46 AM
Marty, the Bandits do have a center stand...
Pat: Yes, something that I was aware of already.
Lee mentioned "interesting bikes", and I know what he means by that statement.
The new/newer Bandit 1250s are a good bike, and I understand their appeal for others, but they are not that appealing to me. Their heavily-discounted price is appealing for sure though.
It all boils down to what you want, but the limiter is what one can afford. Some have money trees to pick from, so cost is not an issue for them. However, for a lot of folks, their good senses override the willingness to open their wallets, because there's more important things in their lives that their hard-earned coin is destined for.
Quote from: racerrad8 on March 02, 2017, 07:38:38 PM
Quote from: FjLee on March 01, 2017, 08:18:19 PM
My impossible NEW dream-bike would be a 1984 FJ1100, built last week from fresh new materials, with all of the fuel storage and delivery gremlins exorcised.
Could I also ask for a 6 speed version?
FjLee 1984 FJ1100 Lee Carkenord Denver XCO
Lee,
As Pat already mentioned, depending on the budget you are going to spend on a new bike, we can probably spent the same amount and bring your FJ into the current day and age.
If you are interested, maybe a ride out the week before the WCR, a weeks stay in Oakdale and we can perform the RPM magic.
Randy - RPM
There's a lot to be said for this and is at least worth consideration. I have been trying to buy another bike for several years and the only one that absolutely does it for me cost around 23K second hand, and that's beyond the budget.
There aren't many popular late model bikes I haven't ridden and there's something to love about all of them. They are technically superior and do everthing better, but I haven't ridden one that I would step off the FJ for. By the time you've played with all the toys, enjoyed the mind bending power and acceleration and settle back into normal riding or a long trip, they all become one thing, bland.
You've no doubt heard the saying "If you can walk away from your bike without looking back it, you bought the wrong bike" As wonderful as new bikes are, they have no character, no soul, you don't develop a fondness for them or feel like they would become an old friend over time, they're more like an efficient tool.
After an epic ride I sometimes sit in the garage with a
bottle glass of wine staring at my faithfull steed, sad the adventure is over for now and briefly reflecting on what we have just been through, at times even before I have changed out of my riding gear then finally switching the light out, but not before I have one last look back at it.
I could no more imagine doing this with a Bandit or similar than sitting in my armchair dreamily staring at the mower, glass in hand, reliving the mow after an epic lawn cutting session.
To many riders, if it goes faster, handles and stops better, it's a better bike. However, I suspect among FJ aficionados there is a higher than average ownership for whom their bike is more than the sum of its parts.
Of course not everyone sees their bikes this way but I do, and Lee, from what you say I suspect you do to.
I have a '93 FJ that has had $11500 (AU) spent on upgrades and improvements, (parts only excluding repairs and consumables) and stacks up very well against your modern garden variety Jap 4. We are fortunate not to have fuel problems here and I have no issue with the 5 speed box. I've done 130K of trips over the last 8 years and sometimes I still just sit on in it in the garage for a few minutes if I haven't ridden it, even if only for a few days, I love it and lust after nothing else I see on the road, well, except for one bike!
Pumping a bit of money into the old girl isn't a half bad idea and Randy's the man to do it, worth thinking about at least.
To appease the pedants, I am obliged to state the bleeding obvious and say this is only my opinion :biggrin:.
Noel
I have a feeling Lee's FJ has become so well worn and "fitted" to him, that a total rebuild may ruin that level of familiarity. BUT, how about a refurbished (suspension upgrades, 17" rear rim, new carbs, etc) late model rubber mounted version as a stablemate?
Quote from: CutterBill on February 25, 2017, 07:13:05 AM
Here's my strategy... Don't sweat the small stuff.
Life is too short to worry about saving a couple hundred bucks. Like Kurt said, an out-the-door price close to the MSRP is about as good as you're going to get. Just pick out the bike you want, get the dealer's best price, offer him a couple hundred under that. If he goes for it, write him a check. If he counters with a higher price, write him a check. Either way, it's all about the ride. Buy the damn bike, get on it and ride.
Go make memories because, in the end, it's all you've got.
Bill
Bill that is the most sensible, down to earth advice I have read on ANY forum in a long time. I usually buy things from someone who treats me well, is not BSing me, and I really don't care if another shop has XYZ for $50.00 less. If you have a good experience, and ride away happy with what you have, that is all that matters, :good2: :good2:
Quote from: ribbert on February 25, 2017, 07:57:41 AM
Since starting writing this I have just read "Cutter Bills" post and he has nailed it, albeit more concisely.
Noel (ex dealer)
Yep, and you echoed it perfectly Noel. :hi:
Look for a brand new old model year.
This would be about 10,000 USD.
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-touring/calgary/2014-kawasaki-concours/1246713748?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true (http://www.kijiji.ca/v-touring/calgary/2014-kawasaki-concours/1246713748?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true)
Hey Lee,
Hope you are well Brother.
When i picked up my new XSR900 last year i called around and got the best OTD prices from several in and out of state dealers.
I then went to my local dealer and made them an OTD offer with cash in hand.... funny how attitudes change when the Benjamin's are flashed.
"I AM going to buy a motorcycle today.... do you want to be the one to sell it to me?"
I skipped the sales guy completely and dealt directly with the sales manager....no games and no clickity clack on the calculator while telling me they are losing money on the deal when i know better.
retail was 9990.00 and my best phone quoted price was 8900.00 + tax title tags and doc fee ... about 9500.00 OTD
My total purchase price= 8900.00 OTD INCLUDING tax title tags and no doc fee.... it really wasn't even a negotiation as that is exactly what i offered.
Sales manager said "Are you buying today..." i said " i am buying right now if you take my offer" and the deal was done just that fast.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/Racerman27410/Yamaha%20XSR900/20161010_161547_zpsgisg3sig.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Racerman27410/media/Yamaha%20XSR900/20161010_161547_zpsgisg3sig.jpg.html)
Felt so good about the deal i went ahead and threw a Penske triple clicker and some AK20 fork cartridges at it to make it my perfect Sunday morning back road bike.... its definitely a keeper just like my FJ.
Sweet!
Hello Frank, that's how to do it :good2:
How are ya? Still doing HVAC in the dodgy part of town? I think you doing service calls packing your firearm.
How's Brutus doing?
Quote from: Pat Conlon on April 01, 2017, 06:13:32 PM
Hello Frank, that's how to do it :good2:
How are ya? Still doing HVAC in the dodgy part of town? I think you doing service calls packing your firearm.
How's Brutus doing?
Hi Pat,
Life is good and no complaints... thankfully i dont have many customers left on the dodgy side of town... sad to see them die off but happy to not have to use my 360 vision just to stay alive while working.... the Kimber 45 in stainless still rides with me and is shiny enough for a crackhead to see from across the street in my holster... ( i stopped carrying concealed since its not as good a deterrent as having the piece visible on my hip.)
Brutus is safe and sound in the garage...running great but to be honest he rarely gets ridden.
I lost my travelling buddy ( Eric Mcclellan) so the majority of my riding now is Sunday morning romps in the mtns with friends and the Annual FJ rallies where the light weight and outstanding performance of the XSR makes it the perfect tool for the job.
Right on Frank.... yea, I think about Eric when I look at this poster on my wall
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/3_09_02_09_10_36_28.jpeg)
I hope someone is taking good care of his beautiful '91
Quote from: Pat Conlon on April 01, 2017, 06:42:50 PM
Right on Frank.... yea, I think about Eric when I look at this poster on my wall
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/3_09_02_09_10_36_28.jpeg)
I hope someone is taking good care of his beautiful '91
Its definitely a reminder to tell the people who matter that you love them every single day.... and to spend a bit more time having fun and a bit less time working!
Not sure exactly what has happened to Eric's bike but last i heard it may be purchased by a Aussie member here to do a cross country tour on then leave with some one as a rally bike.
RIP Eric!
Quote from: racerman_27410 on April 01, 2017, 08:58:22 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on April 01, 2017, 06:42:50 PM
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/3_09_02_09_10_36_28.jpeg)
Its definitely a reminder to tell the people who matter that you love them every single day.... and to spend a bit more time having fun and a bit less time working!
RIP Eric!
It is ironic that Eric has come up this week on the forum. Just his past week he has fallen from the list of top 10 users of the forum in reference to actual online time; he is missed.
Never forget our friends and as Frank already said.
RIP Eric.
Randy - RPM
I must say the Bandit 1250, for $6,500 is an awesome deal. I paid about that for my 93 FJ1200, in 1994, last years model, new in box. The Bandit is about as close to FJ1200, as is on the market today. Yamaha has moved away from the large displacement four cylinder bikes.
Kurt