Please advise me.how does a fj1200 get tight valves?seena to me more wear will cause loose valve clearances.
Quote from: Shane4371 on August 07, 2016, 09:46:52 PMPlease advise me.how does a fj1200 get tight valves?seena to me more wear will cause loose valve clearances.
Shane,
The cams and followers are oiled, so they do not wear much, over the life of the engine. The valves "seat" themselves firmly into the head each time, with little or no oil, so the valves are eroding themselves and the valve seats. The valves are kinda "sinking" farther into the heads, getting closer to the cams. The valve clearances are getting constantly smaller, until the valves and valve seats need to be replaced, and it all starts over again. Neither process is rapid, of course, but the cams and followers wear extremely slowly, as compared to the valve faces and valve seats. The bucket-and-shim valve adjustments allow for very long miles of wear, before it would be necessary to replace valves or seats.
Cheers,
Red
I've checked my intake clearances, if my memory is correct. .011-.015 is the wiggle roomi can barely get .009 feeler gauge between my cam and shim.how does this happen
Also if I leave it alone, the more I ride the more it'll wear into specs?
So if its that tight /close cold its a lot worse when it warms up?
Red already explained to you (very well) how you get tight valves.
When you check your valve clearances you do it on a stone cold engine, so yes, if your valves are tight when the engine is cold, they are even tighter when your engine is hot. They can become so tight that they don't seat. You lose the seal. You lose compression. The hot escaping gases will burn your valve and valve seat.
Quote from: Shane4371 on August 07, 2016, 10:08:03 PM
I've checked my intake clearances, if my memory is correct. .011-.015 is the wiggle roomi can barely get .009 feeler gauge between my cam and shim.how does this happen
Do not rely on your memory for such important information as valve clearances. Check your manual. Inlets; .004"-.006", exhaust; .006"-.008"
metric inlet; .11-.15mm, exhaust; .15-.20mm. You have mixed up imperial and metric measurements.
Quote from: Shane4371 on August 07, 2016, 10:10:02 PM
Also if I leave it alone, the more I ride the more it'll wear into specs?
No, as already explained, it will get worse/tighter.
I apologize, but I just don't understand the drive train on my fj,I'm measuring the space between the flatest spot on my cams and the shims,correct? It seems to me the less gap the more lift off seat the valve will have,please be patient with me. :flag_of_truce:
I ment valve train,
I checked my valves last week and found some loose and some tight. See attached calc sheet. I hope PDF will view properly. On the exhaust side I had loose valves at #1, #2 #3 and #4 (highlighted in yellow in the "Current Gap" row. I also had tight valves at #2 and #3 (shown in RED. This is after 3669 miles. Before that I had many loose valves and one so tight a feeler gauge would not fit. I used to go 10K miles or more before checking valves. Now I will be checking them every oil change. it is not hard to do so better safe than sorry.
Now to measuring cold vs hot. Metal expands when heated. The head expands, the cams expand the valves expand etc... So the gap we measure includes the expansion that will happen when hot plus the extra distance needed to run the valves properly. If the gap is too tight when cold, it might be so tight when hot that the valve is stuck open a little bit. It never closes fully when hot. This will cause loss of power because during the combustion cycle some of the pressure is leaking past an open valve. The combustion gas is supper hot and heats up the valve. Since the valve cannot fully close it is exposed to way more hot gasses than normal and will burn the valve. I hope this helps.
Quote from: Shane4371 on August 08, 2016, 05:56:33 AMI apologize, but I just don't understand the drive train on my fj,I'm measuring the space between the flatest spot on my cams and the shims,correct? It seems to me the less gap the more lift off seat the valve will have,please be patient with me.
Shane,
Change "flattest" to "lowest," to be technical (I know what you meant), and that is correct. Unfortunately, that is the
bad news, here. You do
NOT want the valve to get so much lift that it does not touch the valve seat, when hot. Then the valve would not seal off the hot gasses of combustion. If there is any of that hot leakage, that valve would get
far too hot, and we say the valve gets "burned." It will look like somebody held it too close to a cutting torch. That is almost the reality, only the "torch" here is fed by gasoline, not acetylene.
The temper of the valve gets ruined then, and the engine may run badly for a short while, or at any time, the valve may just snap off the stem and drop into the cylinder. Then the engine may be damaged beyond all reasonable repair, instantly. Valve clearances must be within the limits to prevent such dangerous damage, and still get the best performance from the engine. Did I say "dangerous?" Yes, because breaking off a valve can lock up the engine, leaving you with (at best) a bicycle going at freeway speeds. You may or may not have enough slack in traffic to get off the road safely.
If any valve clearances are too loose, the engine will not run at full power. You may hear this valve "looseness" as a "tapping" or clicking valve. As you realize, there has to be enough valve lift to make the engine run well. Loose valve clearances can also damage the cam, after some time. Now if the valve clearances are too small, the valve will not fit down properly into the valve seat, causing a loss of compression, then burned valves, then a broken valve. A good used engine would cost less than fixing the damage caused by a broken valve.
The engine specs in the manual are very important. The engineers who set those specs do know a lot about this issue. Understanding is a great thing to have there, and we can help with that, but don't make theories right now about things which you do not fully understand yet. Getting something like valve clearances wrong can cost you an engine, if not the entire bike. It can be very dangerous (to you physically) to wreck your engine while running hard in heavy traffic. Nobody here wants to ruin all your fun; quite the reverse, really. Everybody here wants to see you riding off into the sunset, grinning.
Cheers,
Red
Red thanks for the input.I've orderd my shim tool.aviator Fred I think will help with the process of replacing my shims,via phone conversation. Thanks you all so much,the way our valve train wears blafflrs me.I apologise for my idiousy
Quote from: Shane4371 on August 08, 2016, 01:47:45 PM
Red thanks for the input.I've orderd my shim tool.aviator Fred I think will help with the process of replacing my shims,via phone conversation. Thanks you all so much,the way our valve train wears blafflrs me.I apologise for my idiousy
It's not idiocy, Shane, it's just a lack of understanding.
These guys have done a great job of pointing you in the right direction.
Quote from: rktmanfj on August 08, 2016, 02:20:46 PMQuote from: Shane4371 on August 08, 2016, 01:47:45 PMRed thanks for the input.I've orderd my shim tool.aviator Fred I think will help with the process of replacing my shims,via phone conversation. Thanks you all so much,the way our valve train wears blafflrs me.I apologise for my idiousy
It's not idiocy, Shane, it's just a lack of understanding. These guys have done a great job of pointing you in the right direction.
Shane,
Understanding will come, no sweat. For starters, have a look at "burned valves" on Google (just select Images). You will see valves that are burned, and as a result, these valves can be cracked, chipped, and maybe broken off at the stem. Easy enough, or click here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=burned+valves&biw=1600&bih=733&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj0rp3R0rLOAhVL22MKHYUeC7oQ_AUIBygC (https://www.google.com/search?q=burned+valves&biw=1600&bih=733&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj0rp3R0rLOAhVL22MKHYUeC7oQ_AUIBygC)
All of these malfunctions can be caused by valve clearances that became too small, as the valve wore into the valve seat.
You may notice in your engine that the lever pressing the valve open is not pressing on the center of the valve stem. This is done so that as the valve opens and closes, the valve (stem) gets turned slightly each time. This constant slight rotation of the valve as it works will keep the valve and seat to be worn evenly, all around. That helps to keep your valves healthier.
Cheers,
Red
OK fellas #2 cylinder .006 is virtually impossible to get my feeler gauge in .004 is very tight the same on #4 cylinder.please advise.
Quote from: Shane4371 on August 09, 2016, 09:07:11 AM
OK fellas #2 cylinder .006 is virtually impossible to get my feeler gauge in .004 is very tight the same on #4 cylinder.please advise.
this is intake side
I am going to assume your numbers are in inches. .006 x 25.4 = .1524 mm. For intake the minimum gap is .11 mm, nominal is .13 mm and max is .15 mm. So your gap is a tad big. Measure the current shim and then install another shim that is .01 to .04 mm thicker. If your number .006 is in mm then you are super tight. Again measure the current shim, do the math to find a thinner shim that get a proper gap.
Shane,
I like the "GO", "NO GO" technique for checking/setting valve clearances.
If you are using inches, and for the INTAKE valves, get your feeler gauges for .007", .006", .005", .004" and smaller.
Try the .006" first - it should "GO", but may have some resistance.
Try the .007" - it should not go -- i.e. "NO GO"
If so, the clearance is Good.
IF .006" is a "NO GO" - then try .004".
If .004" is a "GO" then decrease the valve shim by one "size". "Standard" valve shim sizes are in 5's -- such as 250, 255, 260, 265, 270, 275, etc.
But, if .004" is also a "NO GO" (or is very difficult to slide in) -- then decrease 2 shim sizes. For example, it is a 270 -- then go down 2 sizes to 260.
After you change your shims DO NOT remeasure your clearance (I got schooled on this recently!). You MUST get the engine up to operating temp AND LET IT COOL OVERNIGHT to be able to check your work. If you try to remeasure your clearance after swapping a shim without running up to temp you WILL bet a BAD measurement and will then swap to a WRONG shim.
For the EXHAUST side you are looking for a "GO" at .008" and a "NO GO" at .009.
The golden rule on valve clearances is too much is a LOT BETTER than too little!
When I get off work I'll recheck thanks so much
Quote from: fj1289 on August 09, 2016, 09:55:50 AM
Shane,
I like the "GO", "NO GO" technique for checking/setting valve clearances.
If you are using inches, and for the INTAKE valves, get your feeler gauges for .007", .006", .005", .004" and smaller.
Try the .006" first - it should "GO", but may have some resistance.
Try the .007" - it should not go -- i.e. "NO GO"
If so, the clearance is Good.
IF .006" is a "NO GO" - then try .004".
If .004" is a "GO" then decrease the valve shim by one "size". "Standard" valve shim sizes are in 5's -- such as 250, 255, 260, 265, 270, 275, etc.
But, if .004" is also a "NO GO" (or is very difficult to slide in) -- then decrease 2 shim sizes. For example, it is a 270 -- then go down 2 sizes to 260.
After you change your shims DO NOT remeasure your clearance (I got schooled on this recently!). You MUST get the engine up to operating temp AND LET IT COOL OVERNIGHT to be able to check your work. If you try to remeasure your clearance after swapping a shim without running up to temp you WILL bet a BAD measurement and will then swap to a WRONG shim.
For the EXHAUST side you are looking for a "GO" at .008" and a "NO GO" at .009.
The golden rule on valve clearances is too much is a LOT BETTER than too little!
My shim tool is on it way,so I can't remove my shims yet.if on intake side .00 6 is loose as a goose is that ok?
Ok guys I just got home from work bee line to the feeler gauge and checked intakes .004-.006 on intakes all are good,I very pleased,on exhaust .004-.006 I was amazed their all very good the key is have the can lobes in a certain spot and replicate that with all lobes.thanks so much.now to my head bolts and can caps.
.004-.006 is too tight on the exhaust side. Yamaha's spec is 0.0062-0.0079 in. on the exhaust side. The .006 is within spec but still on the tight side of the specs and are only going to get tighter. I run intakes at .005-.006 and exhaust at .007-.008.
Ok I'll double check.give a min.
.008 is very very snug and .006 is loose,am.I good?
The smaller the measured clearance the tighter the valves are. If your exhaust are .006-.008 they are within spec. If they are .004-.006 like you stated they are too tight and on the tight side of the spec.
Robert - RPM
Thank you randy.I rechecked and Im snug on 008 and easy slid in on 006.
Pulled this shim was catching my gauge on the way in.I don't think this is normal and Thiers no numbers indicating size
How does the cam lobe look?
I swear that looks like it used to be a quarter. When swapping shims around, a quarter can be used as a temporary place holder.
Looking at the side, does it look like it's a metal sandwich?
Im a diesel mechanic by trade it makes my living.I could tell this bike wasn't right.I'm in it now to deep to turn back.I need you alls help.should I remove this head and start over?
The lobe is actually very smooth .the side I showed was up.catching my feeler gauge.the cam lobes are all very smooth.im gonna have to remove all these shims and check.
Quote from: Shane4371 on August 11, 2016, 04:31:36 PM
...should I remove this head and start over?
No. Unless the valves are burned (you can determine this with a leak-down tester) pulling the head won't fix anything.
Replace that mangled shim with a good one. Remove the rest of the shims, one at a time, and see if they look like that. Replace any that don't look smooth and shiny. Take your time and get the valve clearance right. Install shims with the numbers down; that way they don't get wiped off by the cam. Buy some metric feeler gauges; they're cheap and I suspect you are getting confused with the converting back and forth. You might want to invest in a 0-25mm metric micrometer; this will make determining the thickness of the shims much easier.
It's a metric bike. Use metric tools.
Check very carefully for intake leaks around the rubber connector between the carbs and the head. Yamaha calls them "Carburetor Joints." You might want to remove them and replace the O-rings that live in there. The tiniest vacuum leak will cause giant headaches. If they are hard and/or cracked, replace them all. Randy (RPM) has them for a most reasonable price.
And as for the "running the engine up to operating temp and then letting it cool overnight" between valve clearance checks... in all the years I have worked on shim-over-bucket engines, I have never heard of this one. Nor can I think of any sound engineering reason why you should do so. I doubt Yamaha (and Audi and VW and Volvo) does this on all of the thousands of engines that they make. Now, you might want to turn the engine over by hand one revolution to ensure that the cam lobe has pushed the shim firmly into place. Yeah, I do that. But run the engine and check it again the next day? Nah...
Bill
Hooligan may be right?
It certainly does look like it used to be a quarter.......... :scratch_one-s_head:
Or maybe used an angle grinder to make a thinner shim.
Quote from: CutterBill on August 11, 2016, 07:05:18 PM
....Now, you might want to turn the engine over by hand one revolution to ensure that the cam lobe has pushed the shim firmly into place.
That's just it Bill, ^^^ Turning the cam lobe will not fully seat the new shim. If you take a follow up measurement you will find it to be tighter than it really is..
As it was explained to me: The FJ head pools oil around the buckets. When you pull a shim out, the buckets fill with oil...
Remember the squirt of oil we get (in the face) when we roll the cams with new shims installed? Fun huh? It's a rite of passage with our FJ's.
That's the accumulated oil in the bucket that's squirting you in the face.
This accumulated oil will mess up your follow up measurements....you will drive yourself crazy.
I think we all agree to check your valves on a cold engine.
You are correct, it's a hassle to "have to" go back the next day and remeasure...However, I don't think anyone is saying that you "have to"...there is no need to remeasure. I don't.
However if you do, 1) get all the excess oil out of the buckets first 2) do the recheck on a cold engine.
Cheers.
If you're really worried about trapped oil, then just crank the engine over a few times with the starter. The spark plugs are out, anyway. Easy, peasy...
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on August 11, 2016, 04:30:45 PM
How does the cam lobe look?
I swear that looks like it used to be a quarter. When swapping shims around, a quarter can be used as a temporary place holder.
Looking at the side, does it look like it's a metal sandwich?
All we need is a photo of the other side.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: CutterBill on August 12, 2016, 07:37:06 AM
If you're really worried about trapped oil, then just crank the engine over a few times with the starter. The spark plugs are out, anyway. Easy, peasy...
Bill,
After building hundreds of these engines and probably adjusting a million valves in my twenty plus years of working this engine, cranking the engine over will not allow the oil to be fully extruded out. There are a few reason why this is.
1) The valve shim & bucket are held in a pool of oil at with at least 25% of the shim & bucket covered with oil when the engine is shut down.
2) As a machinist, you know about the centering/reference hole for machine purposes. Well, the surface under the shim has a centering hole that allows the oil to pool.
3) Oil viscosity and ambient temperature is going to be dependent on how easily the oil is extruded.
5) The seat pressure of stock valve springs is only approximately 42-50 PSI on a new Yamaha spring, you can only imaging a 30 year old motorcycle having seat pressure much lower than that. That also reduces the ability to extrude the residual oil.
I wear out a valve shim tool every year adjust valves. Depending in all of the variables above, I have noted as much as a .002" difference. I have attempted to "spin the engine" to try and eliminate an variable due to trapped oil. That measurement is always tighter/smaller than is it after the engine has been brought up to temp.
I rely 100% percent on the chart Yamaha provides, based on the correlation of the shim thickness that has been removed. I never measure them again until after the engine has been brought up to operating temp to ensure the oil has been completely removed from the underside of the shim.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: FJmonkey on August 12, 2016, 12:56:11 AM
Or maybe used an angle grinder to make a thinner shim.
I'll bet this - but the grinding probably went through the hardening and the softer metal got chewed up by the cam. IF you were going to do this - you'd have to install the shim ground side down so the cam worked on the side that is still hardened.
Quote from: racerrad8 on August 12, 2016, 11:44:00 AM
After building hundreds of these engines and probably adjusting a million valves in my twenty plus years of working this engine, cranking the engine over will not allow the oil to be fully extruded out. There are a few reason why this is....
Strangest thing I ever heard... :flag_of_truce:
I had the shim measured it turns out the measurement was a 2.60, .009 slid in easy,I purchase a 265 and .008 barely went in,ask power spots didnt have the other 4 shims i needed so RPM has my order coming,I put everything together ran the engine till it reached operating temp.thiers a considerable change i how its running when i get the rest installed ill resynch carbs and test ride,vey excited
I'm currently waiting on 4 additional shims to complete my project,the question I got,my worst valve was very loose,by that I mean I could almost go over
009 with my feeler guage .006-.008 is spec for exhaust,a 260 was replaced with a 265 that made.008 perfect is their a better spec I could of got ?
Quote from: Shane4371 on August 16, 2016, 05:57:16 PM
I'm currently waiting on 4 additional shims to complete my project,the question I got,my worst valve was very loose,by that I mean I could almost go over
009 with my feeler guage .006-.008 is spec for exhaust,a 260 was replaced with a 265 that made.008 perfect is their a better spec I could of got ?
I think you picked a good shim, it puts that valve back into the middle of spec. :good2:
.009 inches needs .002 change to get .007 (nominal gap) inches. A .002 inches in change equals .051 MM increase of thickness and you will not find a 2.651 shim without a micrometer and it really is not worth the effort.
On my intakes I'm 270 across the entire intake side,I'm at .005 on 2 intakes .004 is the lower end of spec is 265 would be to bigg a drop should I leave it.I'm thinking when she's warmed up that's gonna get tighter
Quote from: Shane4371 on August 16, 2016, 06:56:48 PM
On my intakes I'm 270 across the entire intake side,I'm at .005 on 2 intakes .004 is the lower end of spec is 265 would be to bigg a drop should I leave it.I'm thinking when she's warmed up that's gonna get tighter
The numbers are cold numbers and account for a warm engine, you don't need to over think it. Use the cold numbers....
Thank you :flag_of_truce: :good:
.004" is not the low side of the intake valve clearance. That is too tight.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on August 16, 2016, 07:41:45 PM
.004" is not the low side of the intake valve clearance. That is too tight.
Randy - RPM
.004 inches is .109 MM. Max gap is .15 MM or .0059, I try not to go tighter than .13 MM or .0051. Remember tight is bad, go loose, valves tend to get tighter with use.
Quote from: FJmonkey on August 16, 2016, 07:52:50 PM
Quote from: racerrad8 on August 16, 2016, 07:41:45 PM
.004" is not the low side of the intake valve clearance. That is too tight.
Randy - RPM
.004 inches is .109 MM. Max gap is .15 MM or .0059, I try not to go tighter than .13 MM or .0051. Remember tight is bad, go loose, valves tend to get tighter with use.
So I just want to confirm; because I am tired, I don't have my GYSM or my feeler gauge right in front of me. I need to know if I have been doing it wrong for all of these years.
.004" (.109 MM) is too tight for the intake clearance, correct?
If that is the case and the range is .005" - .006" (0.11~0.15mm) for the intake side, why would you ever set the lash at the minimum clearance setting?
They only get tighter, so now you have adjusted to the minimum number provided by Yamaha and when there is wear you are now to tight.n A better choice is always going to be .006~.007 to allow for wear.
I just want to make sure I am not providing the incorrect information.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on August 16, 2016, 08:29:36 PM
So I just want to confirm; because I am tired, I don't have my GYSM or my feeler gauge right in front of me. I need to know if I have been doing it wrong for all of these years.
.004" (.109 MM) is too tight for the intake clearance, correct?
If that is the case and the range is .005" - .006" (0.11~0.15mm) for the intake side, why would you ever set the lash at the minimum clearance setting?
They only get tighter, so now you have adjusted to the minimum number provided by Yamaha and when there is wear you are now to tight.n A better choice is always going to be .006~.007 to allow for wear.
I just want to make sure I am not providing the incorrect information.
Randy - RPM
Yes on the account of .004 as too tight. And loose is better than tight so .006 is a much better choice (measured in inches). If all you have is a valve that provides .007, then that works as well. I have done it, the valve might tap a little but it won't be tight (or open) when it should be closed.
270 is the intake shims,2 intake are at .004 tight so I orderd 2-272 shims correct?
Quote from: racerrad8 on August 16, 2016, 07:41:45 PM
.004" is not the low side of the intake valve clearance. That is too tight. Low side is my reference to the gap between cam lobe and shim..007 is a gap a lot use for intake clearance,they will run with that ?
Randy - RPM
When the measurement is less than the minimum the replacement shim must be thinner. 2.70 minus .02 you want a 2.68 -- a better choice is to run the valve at the maximum gap because the gap always gets tighter -- a 2.65 shim would be the better choice
Thank you,I was wrong I ordered a thicker shim,so the 265 shims I'll remove from my exhaust side may work?
Well now I can see why it would be nice to have the shim kit at hand while doing these adjustments. Not that I'm scared to to do it, but If I had a place like RPM around me, I'd prolly just take this task to them and relieve myself of the confusing dyslexic mathematics. My bike is nearing 10,000 miles so I'm not sure what mileage I should start considering checking the valves?
Yes use the 265 shim...In general I have found that if (for example) a 270 is tight, just put in a 265. Kind of a short cut method but it keeps it simple.
Jeff
Its very intimidating,the shim tool is hard to use gotta be just right or it won't hold the bucket down or the bucket will slip off the tool and pop up scary,I took my bike down for a week and checked rechecked read a lot,you also gotta get your can lobes in a exact location in order to get a conaistant reading.its time consuming but I've got it down now and a $700 estimate to have it done else were was worth the procedure learned
Quote from: Shane4371 on August 17, 2016, 09:13:06 AM
its time consuming but I've got it down now and a $700 estimate to have it done else were was worth the procedure learned
Yep. You were lucky to have a shop even quote you. A lot of dealerships won't touch old bikes. $700, seems high, but shop rates are up there now with car dealership service rates.
Anybody that ventures into the world of 30 year old bikes, better know their way around a toolbox and have the wherewithal to keep them on the road, or their ownership will not be long-lived.
People here (and the other social media site you post at :rofl:), are a great resource for these bikes to keep them on the road, and make you happy. :good2:
AMEN BROTHA!!
Quote from: Tuneforkfreak on August 17, 2016, 08:51:21 AM
... relieve myself of the confusing dyslexic mathematics.
There really are no mathematics required. Yamaha has already done all of that. The GYSM and every
Haynes FJ Manual (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=tools%3AHayneFJ), I have seen there is a chart.
You measure the clearance, you remove the shim. You go to the chart, find the measured clearance, slide your finger over to the shim thickness remove. The point where the two intersect on the chart is the proper replacement shim.
I never guess when adjusting, I refer to the chart 99% of the time.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on August 17, 2016, 09:34:20 AM
...(and the other social media site you post at :rofl:)
Is the advice he is getting on the other social media sight the same as he is getting here?
Randy - RPM
I've posted the service on the fb page with other fj owners however I received little advise,this forum has a abundance of knowledge that can't be replicated this is the fj how to alpha forum
Im very humbled by the help I've received a contribution to my fj family is on its way,thanks so much
As Randy suggested the manuals have a chart that take all the math out of it. The social media site is good for short "bleeps" of thoughts and information but for real help the fjowners forum is the place to be. The knowledge is vast and deep when it comes to the FJ.
Now a short rant: It amazes me that someone will spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on a machine auto or motorcycle and not spend 15 to 25.00 for a good service manual. Factory manuals show up on e bay often and coffee stains on the cover just adds character RPM also sells manuals. They are not rare. IMO not optional . Yes most information is available on line but there is no substitute for a good hard manual with pictures in front of you.
Rant over TNX :)
George
Quote from: movenon on August 17, 2016, 09:18:39 PM
Now a short rant: It amazes me that someone will spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on a machine auto or motorcycle and not spend 15 to 25.00 for a good service manual. Factory manuals show up on e bay often and coffee stains on the cover just adds character RPM also sells manuals. They are not rare. IMO not optional . Yes most information is available on line but there is no substitute for a good hard manual with pictures in front of you.
Rant over TNX :)
George
+1 :good2:
I have both the Haynes and the GYSM for my FJ1100. The GYSM is the one to use, if you have some knowledge working on bikes. It is so much more logical and easy to navigate than the Haynes!
When I first brought my bike home in all of those parts and pieces the guy whom sold it to me had both the Clymer and GYSM of which he loaned to me so I could get the bike back together. When I completed my bike I returned the manuals, now its time for me to buy them for my own tool box. Honestly Ive had the Haynes manual in my RPM cart awaiting my next check out. I'm in the middle of moving so I have to wait to settle in to my new address before I can proceed to checkout. Strange as this may sound I still possess almost every manual for every bike Ive ever owned. On my FJ with the exception of my rebuild of the carbs, Ive never needed a manual because every question Ive ever had has been answered on this forum.
In the mean time ... http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=15432.new#new (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=15432.new#new)