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General Category => Yamaha FJ1100 / FJ1200 Running Problems => Topic started by: FJFAST on April 30, 2016, 02:58:32 PM

Title: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on April 30, 2016, 02:58:32 PM
Did a search and found a little on this topic but I'm stumped. Headlight and high beam out. Troubleshooting included checking starter switch, and fuses. Finally decided to pull fairing since I needed to repair a cracked piece anyway. The connections look pretty good so I don't think that's the problem. Someone mentioned to check ground but not sure where that is. Did not replace bulb yet..if that's burnt out does high beam still come on?
Help appreciated on steps to take now.

GReg



Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: Pat Conlon on April 30, 2016, 03:08:43 PM
Yes, always check the bulb first.

It is very common for the low beam filament to burn out first, simply because that filament has the most hours of use.

Take the bulb out, look closely at the 2 filaments, you should see one broken.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on April 30, 2016, 03:37:43 PM
Bulb looks ok The bulb connector doesn't look so good.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: Pat Conlon on April 30, 2016, 03:43:14 PM
Yep, that will do it.....if you do not have a firm positive click connection to the bulb, the terminals in your plastic plug will arc and melt the housing.
Go down to your local auto parts store, look for a ceramic plug (typically sold in pairs) and splice in the new wires. Use a quality crimp connector tool on the female connectors.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/H4-9003-H6054-HEADLIGHT-BULB-CERAMIC-CONNECTOR-SOCKET-PLUG-USA-SELLER-/381027623137?hash=item58b70420e1:g:Vb0AAOSwZjJU78Yc&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/H4-9003-H6054-HEADLIGHT-BULB-CERAMIC-CONNECTOR-SOCKET-PLUG-USA-SELLER-/381027623137?hash=item58b70420e1:g:Vb0AAOSwZjJU78Yc&vxp=mtr)
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on April 30, 2016, 04:01:09 PM
So to confirm, if this thing is toast, it would affect the headlight as well as the high beam light? Took the dashboard out of fairing to clean inside (picked up some dust after 32 years of riding it and can't see the trip meter)and checked the high beam bulb...it looks ok.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: Pat Conlon on April 30, 2016, 04:17:20 PM
Will it fix your problem?

Dunno, but it sure looks like you need a new plug for sure.

Get your multimeter out and check (what's left of) the terminals and see if you have power.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on April 30, 2016, 09:29:08 PM
Thanks for the link. This unit has three wires but the FJ one has 5..2 black, 2 yellow and a green. So how would the wiring work?
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: Pat Conlon on April 30, 2016, 10:15:36 PM
You have a headlight plug with 5 wires?
Hmmm, I wonder, do you have a "flash to pass" switch on left handlebar switch assembly?
Regardless, the wires are obviously combined because your headlight bulb has only 3 prongs.

Do you have your Owners Handbook?
In the back is a wiring diagram for your model FJ.
If you don't have one, see my signature (below) for the link. Down load one, they are free.
Typically Yamaha uses the color black to identify the ground wires
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 01, 2016, 08:49:24 AM
Here's the wiring. I do have a manual.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: 4everFJ on May 01, 2016, 01:35:24 PM
That is the correct wiring.

The headlight plug has 3 connectors and 5 wires. Two yellow goes to one connector, two black goes to one connector and one green to the last connector.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 01, 2016, 06:35:28 PM
i guess I splice the two yellow and two black into the the single corresponding wires on the new connector then, correct. Sorry for seemingly dumb questions but electric stuff is REALLY not my forte.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: 4everFJ on May 02, 2016, 10:26:56 AM
If you duplicate what you've got, you can't really go wrong..  :pardon:
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: jscgdunn on May 02, 2016, 11:00:42 AM
One option you might consider is to do the relay mod while you are at it. 

The easiest way:

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html (http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html)

I bought one of these kits, and although not cheap there are some real advantages in that you get the small relays instead of the larger automotive ones, and the wiring and connections are first rate.

Or you can do your own and there are some good post on here.

Another thing to think about is replacing the melted connector with a ceramic one (check ebay).  You can then use a higher wattage bulb without worry about meting the replacement.

Jeff
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: markmartin on May 02, 2016, 12:06:00 PM
Quote from: jscgdunn on May 02, 2016, 11:00:42 AM
One option you might consider is to do the relay mod while you are at it. 

The easiest way:

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html (http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html)

I bought one of these kits, and although not cheap there are some real advantages in that you get the small relays instead of the larger automotive ones, and the wiring and connections are first rate.

snip

Jeff

+1 on the Eastern Beaver harness and relay. It's easy and your headlight will be brighter.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 02, 2016, 04:45:37 PM
Thanks,
I will check the relays out. The guy at the auto parts store said ceramic plugs can explode if overheated? Anyone ever here of this?

Greg
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJmonkey on May 02, 2016, 04:54:40 PM
Quote from: FJFAST on May 02, 2016, 04:45:37 PM
Thanks,
I will check the relays out. The guy at the auto parts store said ceramic plugs can explode if overheated? Anyone ever here of this?

Greg
Even if they explode when over heated, which one will likely survive more heat? Ceramic or Plastic.... The relay mod will help it stay cooler as it will have less electrical resistance (the cause of heat in wires and connections). At a given temperature the wires connected to the plug will melt and short, this is the weakest link during an event including heat. With luck and by design a fuse will blow before you have a thermal event.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 03, 2016, 03:21:14 PM
Would this be the kit?

Quote from: markmartin on May 02, 2016, 12:06:00 PM
Quote from: jscgdunn on May 02, 2016, 11:00:42 AM
One option you might consider is to do the relay mod while you are at it. 

The easiest way:

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html (http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html)

I bought one of these kits, and although not cheap there are some real advantages in that you get the small relays instead of the larger automotive ones, and the wiring and connections are first rate.

snip

Jeff

+1 on the Eastern Beaver harness and relay. It's easy and your headlight will be brighter.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: jscgdunn on May 03, 2016, 03:41:09 PM
Quote from: FJFAST on May 03, 2016, 03:21:14 PM
Would this be the kit?

Quote from: markmartin on May 02, 2016, 12:06:00 PM
Quote from: jscgdunn on May 02, 2016, 11:00:42 AM
One option you might consider is to do the relay mod while you are at it. 

The easiest way:

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html (http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html)

I bought one of these kits, and although not cheap there are some real advantages in that you get the small relays instead of the larger automotive ones, and the wiring and connections are first rate.

snip

Jeff

+1 on the Eastern Beaver harness and relay. It's easy and your headlight will be brighter.

Yes that is it....I did buy the one with the built in outlet for additional lights...you can choose to have them on brights or dims.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: Yamahammer1200 on May 03, 2016, 09:25:41 PM
+1.  The best safety upgrade for your bike.  Eastern Beaver kit  is worth every dime.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 04, 2016, 03:05:49 PM
Ordered....now will just have to figure out how to get it connected. Looking forward to a brighter headlight.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: jscgdunn on May 04, 2016, 04:43:01 PM
Super simple....plug the male three prong connector into your old headlight connector....plug the headlight bulb into the female three prong connector.  Hook positive wire (one with fuse, red I think) to the positive batt terminal.  Black wire to negative terminal.  you are in business. :dance:
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 14, 2016, 12:37:05 PM
Ok..finally received the relay kit. Here's a pic. There were no instructions included and can't find them on his website. At a loss on where to begin. I picked up a ceramic H4 connector, do I need that now? Would appreciate any help so I can get this thing put back together. Also, with this setup, what would be a good bulb to run to maximize the benefits of this install?

Greg



Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: jscgdunn on May 14, 2016, 12:39:58 PM
http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/Installation/installation.html (http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/Installation/installation.html)
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 14, 2016, 12:52:34 PM
Thank you!
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 22, 2016, 02:27:48 PM
Quote from: jscgdunn on May 14, 2016, 12:39:58 PM
http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/Installation/installation.html (http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/Installation/installation.html)


Can someone tell me which color wire coming off the socket is the highbeam? I believe yellow but not sure. Trying to install kit today.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJmonkey on May 22, 2016, 02:48:26 PM
If you have a test light or multi-meter you can verify it. According to my Clymer book all years of FJ are wired at the head lamp with Yellow Green and Black. Yellow seems to the HIGH circuit.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: a.graham52 on May 22, 2016, 02:59:04 PM
Where is the ground located? Neither high or low work on mine and the connector and bulb and fuse are ok.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJmonkey on May 22, 2016, 03:05:05 PM
Black should be your GROUND.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: a.graham52 on May 22, 2016, 03:07:54 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on May 22, 2016, 03:05:05 PM
Black should be your GROUND.

Yes but where is the other end of it
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: jscgdunn on May 22, 2016, 03:16:33 PM
Have you connected the kit according to the instructions?
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJmonkey on May 22, 2016, 03:16:49 PM
This will help, you can download a service manual. http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=15432.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=15432.0)
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 22, 2016, 03:27:41 PM
Thanks guys..getting there..I think..
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 22, 2016, 04:13:42 PM
Ok..so I think I have the kit hooked up right..followed EB instructions. Connected the harness to the battery nothing. Plugged in the dash connectors and no highbeam indicator either. Attached is a pic of my connection.
Any ideas?

Greg
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: Pat Conlon on May 22, 2016, 04:35:03 PM
That black wire is a ground. You need a ground to the EB relays for them to work
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJmonkey on May 22, 2016, 04:39:10 PM
Going back through the earlier posts on this thread I think you missed one very important step. Solving the original problem of no power to the lamp plug. The two relays in the EB kit need this power to know when to switch on and off (no power, they stay off). The original lamp connector looked quite toasted. You may have a burnt/broken wire that is no longer conductive. Electrical trouble shooting in a wire harness can be a real pain. The good news is your problem is not intermittent, the hardest to solve. You have 100% failure, so once you find it you will know. Use your manual, to help trace the wires based on knowing what colors they are. Use a multi-meter and verify that each of the wires for the lamp connector have continuity from the connector to where they connect on the other end. A good place to start is the fuses. Pull each fuse one at a time and measure for voltage on each side of the fuse holder. If all fuse positions have power then work from the fuse towards the lamp connector.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: ct7088 on May 22, 2016, 04:50:54 PM
Check the bulb, did this problem start with no high beam?
The twisted together yellow wires do they go far enough to make contact inside that blue connector?
the high beam indicator should be on if there is power to the yellow wire even without the relay connected

Chris
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 22, 2016, 05:05:06 PM
Quote from: ct7088 on May 22, 2016, 04:50:54 PM
Check the bulb, did this problem start with no high beam?
The twisted together yellow wires do they go far enough to make contact inside that blue connector?
the high beam indicator should be on if there is power to the yellow wire even without the relay connected

Chris

Guys..

EB instructions say to cut and tape old ground wire.
Bulb good..tried a couple
I guess since it's a direct shot to the bulb it would fire.the bulb on my circuit tester is shot.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 22, 2016, 05:08:09 PM
Fjmonkey...one step at a time I guess. Will need to get new tester bulb.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: a.graham52 on May 22, 2016, 09:07:02 PM
You really should use some heat shrink but splices to reduce the chance of corrosion in them bare wires
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJmonkey on May 22, 2016, 09:13:53 PM
Go easy on Greg, he needs to get it working first. Then he can feel comfortable cleaning up the wiring. Like he said, "One step at a time". I agree, One F%$# thing at a time like my favorite boss always said. We are all here being helpful, keep up the the support.... :good2: 
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 22, 2016, 10:51:16 PM
I did buy heat shrink but it was too small...that was temp to see what's going on. Hate this electric stuff.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: Derek Young on May 24, 2016, 08:16:58 AM
I had a problem years ago with my '86 high beam while running a 55/100 bulb. I must have been running it all day on high beam and it overheated the high beam/low beam switch. The solder attaching the high beam wire to the switch let go and no high beam. The low beam worked fine. It was an easy fix once I found the problem, just cleaned it up and re-soldered it. Check that out. Take apart the left side handlebar switch.

Derek
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 24, 2016, 07:55:24 PM
Ok guys..finally diving into it. What I have so far
1. Have voltage off of R/Y at starter switch
2. Have voltage at L/B (which manual says is blue/red but I have a blue/black)
3.no voltage off of dimmer switch (blue/black, yellow,green. Solder looks good. I guess I should have some juice out of these? Bad switch?
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: ct7088 on May 24, 2016, 10:17:24 PM
Red with yellow stripe wire from headlamp fuse goes to the starter switch. The starter switch cuts power to the headlamp when starter is engaged. The blue with yellow stripe wire (power wire) then is routed to the dimmer switch. There is also a solid blue wire connected to the blue with yellow stripe wire, the diagram doesn't show where. The blue wire powers the meter illumination(instrument panel lighting). Looks like the starter switch would be the primary suspect. While it can be cleaned with contact cleaner it needs some lubrication for protection from corrosion and friction.

Chris
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 24, 2016, 10:20:09 PM
How do I tell if there is a bad ground?
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJmonkey on May 25, 2016, 07:47:39 AM
With a test light touch one end to your ground contact and with the other side of the test light touch the positive side of the battery. With a multi-meter you measure for voltage. I am not sure if the ignition key needs to be on for testing ground, it won't to try it both ways.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 25, 2016, 06:59:22 PM
If I touch these with a tester, I get no voltage. Normal? Or a problem?
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 25, 2016, 07:00:31 PM
Sorry..here's pic.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJmonkey on May 25, 2016, 07:41:15 PM
PM sent. With the ignition switch on you should have voltage from the L/B (Blue with BLK stripe) at all times back to the negative on the battery except when starting. If you cannot measure voltage then you need work this wire back to its source till you get voltage. The wire diagram of the GYSM manual shows the Blue with black stripe as a common power. The dimmer switch pictured then directs the power to either Yellow or Green and the ground is from the black lamp plug wire. 
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: ct7088 on May 25, 2016, 10:38:15 PM
The blue/black wire goes to the starter switch that comes apart in a similar fashion as the hi/lo beam switch. At the starter switch the blue/black wire connects to the red/yellow wire through the switch. The starter switch has two circuits one that engages the starter and the second which turns of the headlight only when the starter is engaged. This allows all the battery's power to go to the starter. Verify there is power to the red/yellow wire at the starter switch this wire comes from the headlamp fuse and should have twelve volts when the key is in the on position. After you are satisfied that there is power at the red/yellow wire then verify there is power at the 
blue black wire if not the secondary function of the starter switch has failed. Remove the switch clean the contacts and lubricate the contacts with a heavy grease. Many people are intimidated by a wiring harness, remember only one problem at a time!

RED/YELLOW wire should have 12 volts at the starter switch (the test light should glow brightly) key is in the on position This is the next step.

BLUE/BLACK wire should have 12 volts at the starter switch whenever the RED/YELLOW wire has 12 volts

No 12 volts on the BLUE/BLACK wire means the switch needs cleaned. This can only be a simple problem but may look impossible. 

Chris
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on May 28, 2016, 02:13:10 PM
Ok guys, have narrowed it down (with MUCH help from FJ MONKEY,,Thank you!!) to a faulty dimmer rocker switch. Power coming in on blue/black but not going out. There was minimal corrosion when I took it apart. Cleaned it and reinstalled. Just seems like it's not making contact.
Does anyone have one from an '84-85 that they can send off to me? Just PM me for details.

I will also post in parts wanted section.

Thanks,

Greg
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on June 03, 2016, 07:51:57 PM
Quote from: ct7088 on May 25, 2016, 10:38:15 PM
The blue/black wire goes to the starter switch that comes apart in a similar fashion as the hi/lo beam switch. At the starter switch the blue/black wire connects to the red/yellow wire through the switch. The starter switch has two circuits one that engages the starter and the second which turns of the headlight only when the starter is engaged. This allows all the battery's power to go to the starter. Verify there is power to the red/yellow wire at the starter switch this wire comes from the headlamp fuse and should have twelve volts when the key is in the on position. After you are satisfied that there is power at the red/yellow wire then verify there is power at the 
blue black wire if not the secondary function of the starter switch has failed. Remove the switch clean the contacts and lubricate the contacts with a heavy grease. Many people are intimidated by a wiring harness, remember only one problem at a time!

RED/YELLOW wire should have 12 volts at the starter switch (the test light should glow brightly) key is in the on position This is the next step.

BLUE/BLACK wire should have 12 volts at the starter switch whenever the RED/YELLOW wire has 12 volts

No 12 volts on the BLUE/BLACK wire means the switch needs cleaned. This can only be a simple problem but may look impossible. 

Chris
Quote from: ct7088 on May 25, 2016, 10:38:15 PM
The blue/black wire goes to the starter switch that comes apart in a similar fashion as the hi/lo beam switch. At the starter switch the blue/black wire connects to the red/yellow wire through the switch. The starter switch has two circuits one that engages the starter and the second which turns of the headlight only when the starter is engaged. This allows all the battery's power to go to the starter. Verify there is power to the red/yellow wire at the starter switch this wire comes from the headlamp fuse and should have twelve volts when the key is in the on position. After you are satisfied that there is power at the red/yellow wire then verify there is power at the 
blue black wire if not the secondary function of the starter switch has failed. Remove the switch clean the contacts and lubricate the contacts with a heavy grease. Many people are intimidated by a wiring harness, remember only one problem at a time!

RED/YELLOW wire should have 12 volts at the starter switch (the test light should glow brightly) key is in the on position This is the next step.

BLUE/BLACK wire should have 12 volts at the starter switch whenever the RED/YELLOW wire has 12 volts

No 12 volts on the BLUE/BLACK wire means the switch needs cleaned. This can only be a simple problem but may look impossible. 

Chris

Hi Chris, on that side checks out..good power from R/Y and Blue/black. The dimmer switch has power coming in on blue/black and going out on green but not yellow. A fellow FJer sent me a whole switch assembly but I thought it might be a malfunctioning rocker switch so I swapped them out .no difference in output. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: ct7088 on June 04, 2016, 08:26:34 PM
You are checking for voltage at the solder connection of the dimmer switch?  or at the head lamp connection?

Chris
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on June 06, 2016, 10:30:21 PM
It looks like it wasn't the rocker switch after all..I plugged in the new harness and have power from high and low beam wires now.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJmonkey on June 07, 2016, 12:31:38 AM
So what fixed it?
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: ct7088 on June 07, 2016, 06:02:01 AM
 :good2:
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on June 07, 2016, 01:33:52 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on June 07, 2016, 12:31:38 AM
So what fixed it?

Plugged in the "new" harness. Did not get a chance to hook up and check headlight yet tho.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on June 11, 2016, 01:10:32 PM
Need help..now have power coming out of left switch..power through harness TO the Eastern Beaver setup. No power coming out from both relay setups. What M I missing?
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: ct7088 on June 11, 2016, 01:31:14 PM
Check the fuse in the lead to the battery first, second verify good solid connections at the battery posts of the red and the black wires. Check that the relays are completely pushed into the sockets. You should be able to hear a slight clicking sound from the high beam relay when switching from high to low beam. Was the harness new when you got it? Relays are reliable but anything can fail.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on June 11, 2016, 01:38:48 PM
Fuse good. Connections tight on battery posts. Relays solidly connected. No clicking sound. Brand new unit.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on June 11, 2016, 03:03:55 PM
Is it normal to get 8v out of harness before the EB harness.the relays wont fire.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on June 11, 2016, 03:41:29 PM
When EB hooked up..power stops
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: ct7088 on June 11, 2016, 06:36:31 PM
When the voltage drops under a load there is a connection that has high resistance. Check the same connections as before but do it with the relays connected. Check voltage at the output of the hi beam switch if < 12 volts check the input side if < 12 volts move to the stop/run switch. You need to find the the point of failure. Check both sides of the headlamp fuse with it still in the circuit and the headlight on. If there is still 8 volts at the headlamp fuse the next point of concern is the key switch. I used a single 40 amp relay to route 12 volts around the ignition switch on my 85, it dropped to 10.5 volts across the switch. That gave me full voltage at the headlight and the coils. Dropped the alternator charging voltage to 14 volts. I had already replaced the alternator connector as it was getting hot and was partially melted. I used a relay similar to this.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic-Industrial-Devices/CB1-12V/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt98bArVJter151%252bemUZjTwfnli5RpAUtk%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic-Industrial-Devices/CB1-12V/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt98bArVJter151%252bemUZjTwfnli5RpAUtk%3d)

Chris
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on June 14, 2016, 08:25:49 PM
Chris..things seem to check out on both sides. I hooked up a new socket to original wiring..I get 8-10V out of both socket slots...but when I plug in bulb-nothing. Yes bulbs are good..

All ideas welcome at this point.  I am at a loss. My wife says just put the dang thing back together and we'll just ride in daylight..ha-ha.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on June 14, 2016, 08:31:11 PM
Checked socket ground also,
it's good.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on June 14, 2016, 09:11:55 PM
For those who have installed an Eastern Beaver kit..the instructions say to tape off original black ground wire from the headlight harness. Is this correct? If not, what do I do with it?
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: ct7088 on June 14, 2016, 09:51:07 PM
The 8-10 volts that you read is it at the EB connector that plugs into the headlamp or the wires that come from the high beam switch? The connection of the red and black wires to the battery must be clean and secure. The ground from the original headlamp harness is not used, it would be best to insulate the end and tyrap it to the harness.

Chris
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on June 14, 2016, 09:55:58 PM
Get power from both the switch and the EB harness. The problem is when I connect them, the juice goes away.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: ct7088 on June 14, 2016, 10:33:32 PM
The low voltage at the original headlamp connector has to lead back the connections that you have already checked. Start with the headlamp fuse on the left side fuse panel(at least on a 85) The body of the fuse has an indention on both sides of the top check and compare the voltage at both points with the headlamp plugged in and turned on. I expect them to be within one tenth of a volt. Using the same ground point for the meter measure voltage to the positive battery post. Are the three measurements close to the same? The path for the 12 volts is from battery to ignition switch to headlamp fuse to start switch to the high beam switch and last to the head lamp socket. Either at or between these points there is a high resistance which will carry the small amount of current to make the volt meter work but not allow the much higher current of the headlamp to pass through. This could be the stranded conductor being broken inside the insulation but when you are investing your time the more likely suspect is one of the switches or fuse socket.  The start switch and high beam switch contact surface must be clear of corrosion but each also has a spring that pushes the contacts together. Pushing against the spring tension can break the contact loose. The list of possibilities isn't long. Establish the last place that has full voltage and that will identify where to look for the problem. My Dad taught me to split things in half and then into small parts until you find the problem. Divide and conquer. I'm no rocket scientist and I can do it and have taught a few others. When my kids learned to read it looked so hard and they said "I can't do this", until it all made sense. Yes you can.

Chris
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: jscgdunn on June 15, 2016, 08:57:46 AM
Sorry to see you are having so much trouble with this.  Might be good to send some pics of how you have the EB relay system hooked up.  The relays should take very little voltage to fire.  Basically the EB red goes to the + battery terminal and the black to the -.  I suspect your spliced connections may be incorrect?

Jeff
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on June 15, 2016, 09:17:04 PM
Quote from: ct7088 on June 14, 2016, 10:33:32 PM
The low voltage at the original headlamp connector has to lead back the connections that you have already checked. Start with the headlamp fuse on the left side fuse panel(at least on a 85) The body of the fuse has an indention on both sides of the top check and compare the voltage at both points with the headlamp plugged in and turned on. I expect them to be within one tenth of a volt. Using the same ground point for the meter measure voltage to the positive battery post. Are the three measurements close to the same? The path for the 12 volts is from battery to ignition switch to headlamp fuse to start switch to the high beam switch and last to the head lamp socket. Either at or between these points there is a high resistance which will carry the small amount of current to make the volt meter work but not allow the much higher current of the headlamp to pass through. This could be the stranded conductor being broken inside the insulation but when you are investing your time the more likely suspect is one of the switches or fuse socket.  The start switch and high beam switch contact surface must be clear of corrosion but each also has a spring that pushes the contacts together. Pushing against the spring tension can break the contact loose. The list of possibilities isn't long. Establish the last place that has full voltage and that will identify where to look for the problem. My Dad taught me to split things in half and then into small parts until you find the problem. Divide and conquer. I'm no rocket scientist and I can do it and have taught a few others. When my kids learned to read it looked so hard and they said "I can't do this", until it all made sense. Yes you can.

Chris
The low voltage at the original headlamp connector has to lead back the connections that you have already checked. Start with the headlamp fuse on the left side fuse panel(at least on a 85) The body of the fuse has an indention on both sides of the top check and compare the voltage at both points with the headlamp plugged in and turned on. I expect them to be within one tenth of a volt. Using the same ground point for the meter measure voltage to the positive battery post. Are the three measurements close to the same?

The voltage checks out on all three points from a ground point and also off th battery ground.

Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on June 15, 2016, 09:19:02 PM
Quote from: ct7088 on June 14, 2016, 09:51:07 PM
The 8-10 volts that you read is it at the EB connector that plugs into the headlamp or the wires that come from the high beam switch? The connection of the red and black wires to the battery must be clean and secure. The ground from the original headlamp harness is not used, it would be best to insulate the end and tyrap it to the harness.

Chris

8-10v both fron EB and wires from high/low switch.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on June 15, 2016, 09:22:16 PM
Quote from: jscgdunn on June 15, 2016, 08:57:46 AM
Sorry to see you are having so much trouble with this.  Might be good to send some pics of how you have the EB relay system hooked up.  The relays should take very little voltage to fire.  Basically the EB red goes to the + battery terminal and the black to the -.  I suspect your spliced connections may be incorrect?

Jeff

The EB relay setup correctly as far as I can tell. Right now it's disconnected. I just want the lamp to work on OEM wiring and I'll go from there.

Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: ct7088 on June 16, 2016, 09:27:30 PM
measure voltage from the low beam wire to the battery positive post - that will show the voltage drop across that circuit. The lower the voltage reading the resistance between the two points. Key on with the light switch in low beam position. Measure voltage across the two battery post ? 12 volts? Measure voltage from the positive post to a good ground on the frame of the bike, somewhere away from the negative battery cable. That should be within  a few tenths of a volt of the measurement across the battery post. It is beginning to sound like the negative battery cable is bad or the contact point to the frame maybe the connection of high resistance. Did you measure the battery voltage using the same ground that you used measuring the two light sockets? The electrons leaving the battery must have a path back to the other post. I'm told that the direction of electron travel is out of the negative post through the circuit and back to the positive post. What matters isn't the direction but the path must be complete before the electrons can do their job.

Chris
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on June 25, 2016, 03:22:54 PM
Ok all....looks like I finally have this thing licked. Took quite a while but there was a bad negative ground coming from an old radar detector module. When I disconnected the negative wire, the lamp lighted. Unbelievable. I will say I learned a lot about this stuff as frustrating as it was. I would like to give a heartfelt thanks to everyone who chimed in with trouble shooting ideas. I hope to get the fairing back on this weekend (fingers crossed on that one) and will give you an update.

Greg
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: jscgdunn on June 25, 2016, 03:55:10 PM
Great!  Radar Love.... :rofl2:
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on June 25, 2016, 04:17:53 PM
Haha..an old Escort Passport that I just never got around to disconnecting for one reason or another. Worked well in its time. Haven't really looked in to the new stuff...I'm sure there's Bluetooth connectivity etc.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on June 27, 2016, 05:57:49 PM
More work to do gentleman...lamp was
working but when set fairing back on and finished connections-no light or highbeam indicator. Didn't have time to go back over everything.   Dang it...soo close.    :dash1:
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on July 01, 2016, 02:44:43 PM
Quote from: FJFAST on June 15, 2016, 09:17:04 PM
Quote from: ct7088 on June 14, 2016, 10:33:32 PM
The low voltage at the original headlamp connector has to lead back the connections that you have already checked. Start with the headlamp fuse on the left side fuse panel(at least on a 85) The body of the fuse has an indention on both sides of the top check and compare the voltage at both points with the headlamp plugged in and turned on. I expect them to be within one tenth of a volt. Using the same ground point for the meter measure voltage to the positive battery post. Are the three measurements close to the same? The path for the 12 volts is from battery to ignition switch to headlamp fuse to start switch to the high beam switch and last to the head lamp socket. Either at or between these points there is a high resistance which will carry the small amount of current to make the volt meter work but not allow the much higher current of the headlamp to pass through. This could be the stranded conductor being broken inside the insulation but when you are investing your time the more likely suspect is one of the switches or fuse socket.  The start switch and high beam switch contact surface must be clear of corrosion but each also has a spring that pushes the contacts together. Pushing against the spring tension can break the contact loose. The list of possibilities isn't long. Establish the last place that has full voltage and that will identify where to look for the problem. My Dad taught me to split things in half and then into small parts until you find the problem. Divide and conquer. I'm no rocket scientist and I can do it and have taught a few others. When my kids learned to read it looked so hard and they said "I can't do this", until it all made sense. Yes you can.

Chris
The low voltage at the original headlamp connector has to lead back the connections that you have already checked. Start with the headlamp fuse on the left side fuse panel(at least on a 85) The body of the fuse has an indention on both sides of the top check and compare the voltage at both points with the headlamp plugged in and turned on. I expect them to be within one tenth of a volt. Using the same ground point for the meter measure voltage to the positive battery post. Are the three measurements close to the same?

The voltage checks out on all three points from a ground point and also off th battery ground.


[/quote

I've got 5.5V coming into left switch and 5.5V coming out on low and high beam wires as well as at the end of the harness before the socket. Thoughts? I'm ready to say forget it and put it back together as is and deal with it later. Too nice out to be sitting around on a holiday weekend.

Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on July 01, 2016, 03:01:52 PM
I've got 5.5V coming into left switch and 5.5V coming out on low and high beam wires as well as at the end of the harness before the socket. Thoughts? I'm ready to say forget it and put it back together as is and deal with it later. Too nice out to be sitting around on a holiday weekend.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJ1100mjk on July 01, 2016, 03:09:43 PM
Quote from: FJFAST on July 01, 2016, 03:01:52 PM
Too nice out to be sitting around on a holiday weekend.

Amen to that! Summer comes but once a year.
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on July 01, 2016, 04:11:02 PM
 :bad:
Quote from: ct7088 on June 16, 2016, 09:27:30 PM
measure voltage from the low beam wire to the battery positive post - that will show the voltage drop across that circuit. The lower the voltage reading the resistance between the two points. Key on with the light switch in low beam position. Measure voltage across the two battery post ? 12 volts? Measure voltage from the positive post to a good ground on the frame of the bike, somewhere away from the negative battery cable. That should be within  a few tenths of a volt of the measurement across the battery post. It is beginning to sound like the negative battery cable is bad or the contact point to the frame maybe the connection of high resistance. Did you measure the battery voltage using the same ground that you used measuring the two light sockets? The electrons leaving the battery must have a path back to the other post. I'm told that the direction of electron travel is out of the negative post through the circuit and back to the positive post. What matters isn't the direction but the path must be complete before the electrons can do their job.

It is beginning to sound like the negative battery cable is bad or the contact point to the frame maybe the connection of high resistance.

Wouldn't this affect other things as well?



Chris
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on July 01, 2016, 04:12:31 PM
It is beginning to sound like the negative battery cable is bad or the contact point to the frame maybe the connection of high resistance.

Wouldn't this affect other areas as well?

Greg
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: ct7088 on July 01, 2016, 10:13:12 PM
Yes a bad battery ground cable would stop the starter from working at the very least also almost every circuit on the bike could be affected. Are there any items other than the high beam indicator that stop working when the relay harness and headlamp sockets are connected? Where did you connect the red and black wires that are part of the EB harness?
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: FJFAST on July 02, 2016, 09:09:21 AM
No other circuits appear to be affected. EB harness is connected red to positive and black to negative. I double checked left switch power and have @5.5v going in and 5.5v coming out on yellow and green.

Greg
Title: Re: Headlight/high beam out on 85 FJ
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 04, 2016, 11:22:01 AM
Ok, now go backwards. Find the spot in the harness (or the connector) where the voltage goes from your battery voltage, 12volts, down to 5.5v.